jarr92
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From a hockey perspective obviously SJ is pretty close to the bottom. Financially he would also be better off not in SJ, with high taxes and a smaller market than other competitors.
Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion
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Perratrooper
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one2gamble
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Sharksfan66
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Depends on what you mean by a hockey perspective. If you mean odds of getting to play playoff games right away, sure. If you mean odds of winning a cup during the course of the contract (how I would view it if I was him), I would actually put the Sharks in the top 3 of that list alongside the Ducks & Hawks.
I think the real X factor will come down to where he and his wife want to raise their family. All 3 cities are very different, each with their merits & drawbacks. Who knows what he values, but Marner is in a really unique situation of being able to basically pick where he will live for the next 7 years (can't image he doesn't get a NMC). I expect this will be a huge factor.
Sharksfan66
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That franchise hasn't won a playoff series in 12 years. I have no clue why Utah is being mentioned as a potential contender in this thread. They are the very definition of mid and Marner alone doesn't change that.
Tax free is a nice boost if all else is equal, but Florida is a perfect example of how being a tax free state doesn't mean jack until you start winning.
Utah's a more competitive team and their window is just starting to open. We still need time for our window to creak open. They will have the money advantage at the end of the day too.
tiburon12
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That would be a mistake for Utah though. They need a horse that can be their elite go-to guy. They have a bunch of 1B type guys like Keller and Cooley, but never got the top dog. Marner has proved time and again he can't be the top dog.
Marner's value to his new team is either going to be as a top line complementary piece with an established horse, or as like a Kessel on Pitt type situation where he dominates the 2nd half of a lineup. Either way, he can't be the "best" player on his new team
A competitive team without a 1C or #1 D or legit starting goalie.
Yeah that team is destined to stay in the mushy middle. Whoever said “mid” is correct with regards to Utah.
OrrNumber4
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Remember, free agents are not free. They have a cost in salary, cap space, and roster space...
True but acquiring the same player in a trade still costs those same things. Getting a 1st line FW without using a Draft Pick or asset is valuable.
It might be for them. These are high risk signings. But I think their desire to make a big splash and push for a playoff spot will get them to chase the likely top guy on the free agent market. I think Marner can fit well enough for them to have good regular seasons and make the playoffs. I think that's worth it for them on its own.
I think they have good enough options at those spots where adding someone like Marner will make them good enough to make the playoffs and that that's their primary objective and what they're willing to make a big splash for.
OrrNumber4
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Of course, but it is a different kind of cost. Cap space is absolutely an asset, just one that everyone starts off with a lot of before slowly chipping away at it...
You have to think that Heiskanen and Robertson will get going soon...both look very shaky right now.
Star Platinum
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Would have been better to do this last year before we filled up on bottom 6 plugs. I'm not really sure what we're supposed to do with him unless he's got some defensive grit to his game (and with those scoring numbers, he better).
tiburon12
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For sure, it's most likely that his actual landing spot is not the best fit. Rarely is with UFAs
SjMilhouse
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1. <5% state income tax
2. Small/quiet market (similar to San Jose)
3. Young, talented roster that probably sneaks into the playoffs if they had a healthy D core all year
4. Phenomenal ownership (San Jose is good too but Smith has gone above and beyond anything I can remember seeing from a team)
5. Swig
6. Secret Lives of Mormon Wives
In all honesty, Utah is just further along in their rebuild and should be a playoff team next year assuming they add someone like Marner and they have the capital to make a big splash trade as well.
I don't understand the slander on Utah in here. Sergachev was great last year and when Marino/Durzi were back the team played great. They are definitely lacking a true #1C but Cooley is still a baby and took a big step this year. Oh and Utah can throw as much money as him as anyone else.
Utah is not mid. 4th overall pick with a solid prospect pool and a good young NHL team.
1C is definitely a question mark but Sergachev played great and they have good depth at D when healthy with guys coming up. We will see if he can replicate it but Veggie almost carried them to the playoffs in goal down the stretch and was great all year.
I'm bullish on Utah. Will they be a legit contender? Depends what BA does in the off-season/going forward but the future is bright
SjMilhouse
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weastern bias
worst team in the league
It's very funny to see people dismissing the idea of a premier free agent signing in Utah because he's so much more likely to sign to play with. . . the Sharks. . .
Jargon
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Don’t tell me what to do
SjMilhouse
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I mean don't get me wrong, San Jose is my team but the Utah slander is wild across HFboards. By all accounts Smith and Co knocked it out of the park this year with the org/players and that was with little to no prep. The practice facility they are building looks incredible and they have spared no expense to make this a premier organization now and into the future. Like it or not, they also have full support from the State, County, and City to invest in making the arena work for Hockey and transform the downtown.
I know a lot of the country has a negative view of Utah, which selfishly has kept it a little hidden gem for me the last 9 years I've lived here, but from everything I've read and all the interviews I've seen the players genuinely like it here. We'll see what happens, but they have all the right people in charge to do everything they can to attract talent and worst case they end up similar to San Jose where players don't want to sign but once they get here they stay. Who knows.
I can't think of many reasons why someone like Marner would pick the Sharks over Utah that isn't just wishcasting is the main point I was trying to make...and that's coming from being a pretty intimate fan of both teams.
timorous me
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I think for most the hope (a sliver at best, for me) lies in the connection to Jumbo and Patty, and then maybe the presence of a potential future superstar in Celebrini (Utah has talent but Macklin could be the kind of superstar that attracts other good players, though we're probably too early for that to happen now).
other than personal connections with patty or jumbo, there is zero reason for marner to come, and similarly few reasons for grier to sign him.
1. Marner is smaller, grier wants bigger.
2. Sharks not ready to make a PO push yet, so the first few years are wasted.
3. No trade flexibility, as whatever salary he gets will be impossible to dump easily.
4. marner likely wants to win. SJ is not gunna win for at least a year or two, so marner will have to deal with a losing team.
5. Sharks biggest need for spending is on D, so if grier is gunna commit double digit millions in $$$ and Term, it will likely be on D as having a set of superstar forwards backed up by 19 yo dickinson, desharnais, thrun, vlasic, Ferraro, and liljgren is a waste of money.
6. the sharks prospect system is flush with promising wingers in musty, cherny, graf, haltunenn, cardwell...
7. cali is a high tax state and expensive place to live.
Obviously, it would be a hell of a splash to land him, but it just doesn't check the boxes. Grier has gotta be looking for size and snarl along with D. Look at osty. Look at Giles. Look at desharnais. The guys he is adding to the organization fit that mold, and the jettisoned ones: Gush, Bords, Potaralski, Zetterlund, all relatively shorter...
grier made an exception for smith and celly because, first, they arent that small (both 6'). and their skill outweighed the heigh dificiencies. he could make a similar exception for marner if the sharks were ready to make a real run and they were stocked in size on the W. However, the sharks are not ready to make a run yet and they are not stacked in size on the W at the NHL level yet.
Grier would be much better off signing guys 1-2 years and buying just a little more time for development. Hopefully, he can add some actual quality guys so the team wins more games, too, while maintainging flexibility and while maximizing trade value and ease.
1. Marner is smaller, grier wants bigger.
2. Sharks not ready to make a PO push yet, so the first few years are wasted.
3. No trade flexibility, as whatever salary he gets will be impossible to dump easily.
4. marner likely wants to win. SJ is not gunna win for at least a year or two, so marner will have to deal with a losing team.
5. Sharks biggest need for spending is on D, so if grier is gunna commit double digit millions in $$$ and Term, it will likely be on D as having a set of superstar forwards backed up by 19 yo dickinson, desharnais, thrun, vlasic, Ferraro, and liljgren is a waste of money.
6. the sharks prospect system is flush with promising wingers in musty, cherny, graf, haltunenn, cardwell...
7. cali is a high tax state and expensive place to live.
Obviously, it would be a hell of a splash to land him, but it just doesn't check the boxes. Grier has gotta be looking for size and snarl along with D. Look at osty. Look at Giles. Look at desharnais. The guys he is adding to the organization fit that mold, and the jettisoned ones: Gush, Bords, Potaralski, Zetterlund, all relatively shorter...
grier made an exception for smith and celly because, first, they arent that small (both 6'). and their skill outweighed the heigh dificiencies. he could make a similar exception for marner if the sharks were ready to make a real run and they were stocked in size on the W. However, the sharks are not ready to make a run yet and they are not stacked in size on the W at the NHL level yet.
Grier would be much better off signing guys 1-2 years and buying just a little more time for development. Hopefully, he can add some actual quality guys so the team wins more games, too, while maintainging flexibility and while maximizing trade value and ease.
I still don't think that's good value unless it's for both and I don't really want Miller on the team.
I don't want Miller or Dobson for any reasonable offer. Cuylle is probably also too expensive for my taste. At least where I feel the Sharks are at but he's a way more tempting offer even with our promising prospects.
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