Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Sharkz4Fun]

It's not the comparison but the financial commitment. Bringing in Marner for 14-15 makes Eklund expendable because Grier certainly isn't going to pay him 8-9 as well.

I understand, but he'll have to pay Smith more than 8-9 eventually and Eklund at 8-8.5 if he can get it done is a great deal.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Smith is the Temu version of Nylander, not Marner. He doesn't have Marner's skating ability or defensive value. Calling Marner awful defensively is one of the stupidest takes I've ever seen on this board. He has gotten Selke votes for the last 6 years running despite that predominantly being an award for centers.

Nylander is far better than both Marner and Matthews, Smith doesn't hold a candle to him. Marner was one of the slowest skaters this season.

 

[TheBeard]

I understand, but he'll have to pay Smith more than 8-9 eventually and Eklund at 8-8.5 if he can get it done is a great deal.

My point is he'll make one of the two expendable and the way it looks he'd much more quickly move on from 72 than 2.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

My point is he'll make one of the two expendable and the way it looks he'd much more quickly move on from 72 than 2.

I think so too, but I'm saying that would kill any chance of winning for however long the Marner contract is.

 

[Jargon]

Goddammit I’ve never liked so many Hodge posts in a row, what’s going on.

But yes; Grier is very bad at being sneaky and his wording actually makes me suggest he’s either had some preliminary talks with agents or they have a couple of guys on their radar that they’re going to be aggressively pursuing (Bennett? Marner? Ekblad? Ehlers?).

I also completely agree if you have a team that’s 20 million dollars under the minimum and desperately needs high end talent, you just can’t say no to Mitch Marner. To be perfectly frank, I think Celebrini is the kind of leader that will drag his team to a cup if you give him enough talent. I’m not worried how Marner has performed in Toronto.

Sam Bennett FOR SURE sounds like a Grier guy though..,

 

[Hodge]

Nylander is far better than both Marner and Matthews, Smith doesn't hold a candle to him. Marner was one of the slowest skaters this season.

There's a lot more to skating than top speed. Marner can use his agility as a tool of deception in a way Smith just can't, at least not right now. Smith and Nylander are similar because they're one dimensional offensive forwards who provide no value away from the puck.

 

[TheBeard]

Goddammit I’ve never liked so many Hodge posts in a row, what’s going on.

But yes; Grier is very bad at being sneaky and his wording actually makes me suggest he’s either had some preliminary talks with agents or they have a couple of guys on their radar that they’re going to be aggressively pursuing (Bennett? Marner? Ekblad? Ehlers?).

I also completely agree if you have a team that’s 20 million dollars under the minimum and desperately needs high end talent, you just can’t say no to Mitch Marner. To be perfectly frank, I think Celebrini is the kind of leader that will drag his team to a cup if you give him enough talent. I’m not worried how Marner has performed in Toronto.

Sam Bennett FOR SURE sounds like a Grier guy though..,

If he wants to give Marner 45/3 I'm fine with the massive overpay. I'm not worried about his hit for the 25-26 season. It's the 28-29 and beyond I'm concerned with.

 

[Jargon]

If he wants to give Marner 45/3 I'm fine with the massive overpay. I'm not worried about his hit for the 25-26 season. It's the 28-29 and beyond I'm concerned with.

We should just give everyone insane 2 year deals.

20 million a year for Marner, 10 million for Sam. GET RICH AND f*** OFF we’ll call it.

 

[Hodge]

If he wants to give Marner 45/3 I'm fine with the massive overpay. I'm not worried about his hit for the 25-26 season. It's the 28-29 and beyond I'm concerned with.

You know the cap will be over $120 million by then right? Even if Celebrini, Marner, Smith, Misa/Schaefer and Askarov are somehow making a combined $60 million that still leaves more than $60 million for the other 15 players on the team.

 

[TheBeard]

You know the cap will be over $120 million by then right? Even if Celebrini, Marner, Smith, Misa/Schaefer and Askarov are somehow making a combined $60 million that still leaves more than $60 million for the other 15 players on the team.

And the going rate for a bottom pairing guy will be 5.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

There's a lot more to skating than top speed. Marner can use his agility as a tool of deception in a way Smith just can't, at least not right now. Smith and Nylander are similar because they're one dimensional offensive forwards who provide no value away from the puck.

I don't know what to say other than I see the complete opposite of that. I never see Marner play well defensively, or Matthews, and they can't even put up points when it matters. At least Nylander can.

You know the cap will be over $120 million by then right? Even if Celebrini, Marner, Smith, Misa/Schaefer and Askarov are somehow making a combined $60 million that still leaves more than $60 million for the other 15 players on the team.

The problem is that's an awful core except Celebrini. That's just, again, the Temu version of the current leafs.

 

[TheBeard]

We should just give everyone insane 2 year deals.

20 million a year for Marner, 10 million for Sam. GET RICH AND f*** OFF we’ll call it.

Would be better if we had more than 1 retention slot.

 

[Hodge]

And the going rate for a bottom pairing guy will be 5.

Unless he's on an ELC which we're more likely to find by not having to give up picks or prospects for Marner.

 

[Hodge]

The problem is that's an awful core except Celebrini. That's just, again, the Temu version of the current leafs.

Too soon to say. Depends on which of Misa or Schaefer we end up with, how they develop and how guys like Smith, Askarov and Dickinson end up developing. If they're not good enough we'll continue getting chances to add potential core pieces at the top of the next few drafts.

 

[ThePlanet]

My perfect off-season:

Draft Schaefer or Misa. Sign Bennett and Gavrikov. Sign Jake Allen to 1a/1b with Asky. Trade for Cuylle. Add two more short-term UFAs like Lindgren Roslovic.

 

[weastern bias]

Marner is awful defensively so not sure where Hodge came up with that.

Mitch Marner is legitimately one of the best defensive forwards in the NHL, your analysis is completely off base

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Marner has way too many potential suitors for me to believe that the Sharks could separate themselves enough from everyone else to offer the best deal for him. While I think he's an acceptable overpay candidate, I'm not disappointed if we don't end up with him. I think the cost to get him is probably around two mil over whatever his actual market otherwise would be. If he's a 12-14 mil player on the open market, we'd probably need to offer him 14-16 to make up for our market's situation. That kind of commitment will almost definitely be a benchmark for Celebrini's next contract in two years. I think I'm content if we don't make a big splash until after we've made commitments to Askarov, Celebrini, and Smith.

 

[Hodge]

~15M is a totally reasonable AAV for Marner and Celebrini on max term deals. In year one of Celebrini's deal that will be the equivalent of 11.6M today.

 

[jarr92]

Imagine being Mitch Marner and then choosing the 2025 Sharks as your first UFA destination

I feel very confident in saying the Sharks will not be signing Marner this summer, even if MG has interest.

 

[Hodge]

Imagine being Mitch Marner and then choosing the 2025 Sharks as your first UFA destination

I feel very confident in saying the Sharks will not be signing Marner this summer, even if MG has interest.

I'm not expecting it to happen but it's also not as outrageous as you're making it out to be.

If he leaves Toronto he's probably not signing with another Canadian team. Panthers, Stars, Knights, Avs, Rangers and Tampa don't have the cap space. Bruins don't really need him with Pastrnak already at 1RW. He already vetoed a trade to Carolina.

That leaves Chicago, Utah, Buffalo, Detroit and the California teams with a clear need for Marner and the cap space to afford him. I don't think we're #1 on that list but we're probably not last either.

 

[gaucholoco3]

If you're signing Marner you're ultimately moving on from Eklund. It also depends on how the draft shakes out. I do very much care about his playoff stats because the last thing this organization needs is another top-loaded group that can't find a higher gear come playoff time.

Eklund is an effective F1 where as Marner would play the F2 role. You could argue Eklund would not be ideal with Celebrini and Marner but they would all complement each other well and Celebrini and Eklund both battle and play bigger than they are. You could always drop Eklund to play with Smith.

The Sharks have one F1 in the entire organization that has skill. I’m not about to trade him unless it is for a foundational piece which you do with or without Marner.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I get that but we're so far away from making the playoffs that it's just outweighed by the immediate benefits of adding Marner. Also he absolutely showed up in the biggest moments at Four Nations. The Leafs might just be cursed.

Celebrini, Marner, Smith, Misa/Schaefer and Askarov is a hell of a core to build around. We'd probably be done with the acquiring high-end talent portion of the rebuild and can move on to adding size and defense.

Another reason I would be interested in moving the 26 1st for Martone or Desnoyers. We don’t need any more top 5 picks. At this point it will become a problem because we won’t be able to afford all of them.

 

[gaucholoco3]

How does wanting to sign Marner next summer but not this one make any sense? What's the difference?

I hate this excuse people make saying not this summer than next. It is unlikely a UFA as good as Marner will be available next summer. If Marner says yes to the Sharks then you say yes. Getting that level asset for free is huge.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm not expecting it to happen but it's also not as outrageous as you're making it out to be.

If he leaves Toronto he's probably not signing with another Canadian team. Panthers, Stars, Knights, Avs, Rangers and Tampa don't have the cap space. Bruins don't really need him with Pastrnak already at 1RW. He already vetoed a trade to Carolina.

That leaves Chicago, Utah, Buffalo, Detroit and the California teams with a clear need for Marner and the cap space to afford him. I don't think we're #1 on that list but we're probably not last either.

Carolina is probably off the list for reasons unrelated to the vetoed trade. Carolina is always looking for a great deal. Signing a premier guy at top dollar doesn't seem to align with how they operate. They do have the space to make it happen if they want though. I think you can't dismiss teams like the Islanders, Columbus, and Seattle as possibilities for Marner too. I'm sure there are others too especially when you start realizing that a lot of GM's get involved in these sorts of sweepstakes to avoid competitors getting that guy. Marner would be a tough sign for the Sharks and hopefully not too much time is spent trying to catch that big fish when they have a lot of other things that could help the team next year.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I'm not expecting it to happen but it's also not as outrageous as you're making it out to be.

If he leaves Toronto he's probably not signing with another Canadian team. Panthers, Stars, Knights, Avs, Rangers and Tampa don't have the cap space. Bruins don't really need him with Pastrnak already at 1RW. He already vetoed a trade to Carolina.

That leaves Chicago, Utah, Buffalo, Detroit and the California teams with a clear need for Marner and the cap space to afford him. I don't think we're #1 on that list but we're probably not last either.

While it is all conjecture part of the optimism for signing Marner is his clear connection to both Patty and Jumbo. Many people would follow their mentors if paid the same as other cities. Also other than the two other CA teams weather and lifestyle is not something those other markets can offer that SJ does.