Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Hodge]

Graf played 30 games and Smith had to force his way into getting any offensive opportunities.

Kovalenko got more opportunities from Bednar than Warso for example. You can't be a last place team and one of the hardest for rookies to break into.

It's almost like a cap strapped team with no depth and 2 of their 3 best wingers out of the lineup is easier to break into than one with a full complement of established bottom six NHL forwards.

 

[WSS11]

Slightly off topic from the current discussion but just looking at our cap situation, Grier is going to have a lot of flexibility.
Couture’s 8M hit comes off the books since he’s not a 35+ contract, Vlasic’s 7M is off after next season, Burns nearly 3M in retention is now off (opening up a retention slot in the process). It’ll be interesting to see how GMMG handles this offseason.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Slightly off topic from the current discussion but just looking at our cap situation, Grier is going to have a lot of flexibility.
Couture’s 8M hit comes off the books since he’s not a 35+ contract, Vlasic’s 7M is off after next season, Burns nearly 3M in retention is now off (opening up a retention slot in the process). It’ll be interesting to see how GMMG handles this offseason.

Cooch’s hit will stay on the cap sheet until the contract expires. We can LTIR him if we need to exceed the 95 mil cap which seems unlikely.

 

[WSS11]

Cooch’s hit will stay on the cap sheet until the contract expires. We can LTIR him if we need to exceed the 95 mil cap which seems unlikely.

Yes, should have worded it better. If we want to utilize his 8M in space we can by way of LTIR. It’s an option

 

[Juxtaposer]

I’d rather see them play the rookies and showcase their value. Then we can package and trade them for bigger fish like pennies for a dollar.

Bordeleau has literally no value in this league and scoring 10 points in 20 games this season (hypothetically) wouldn't have changed that one bit. Literally zero value.

Over possession black holes like Kovalenko, Grundstrom, Dellandrea, Ostapchuk. Yes.

Bordeleau does not have the skill to play in the top-6 and doesn't have the physicality or defensive ability to play in the bottom-6. What makes you think Bordeleau wouldn't have been an even worse possession black hole than those guys, other than the fact that you hate them and Grier and love Bordeleau? Give me facts.

 

[Bizz]

Bordeleau has literally no value in this league and scoring 10 points in 20 games this season (hypothetically) wouldn't have changed that one bit. Literally zero value.


Bordeleau does not have the skill to play in the top-6 and doesn't have the physicality or defensive ability to play in the bottom-6. What makes you think Bordeleau wouldn't have been an even worse possession black hole than those guys, other than the fact that you hate them and Grier and love Bordeleau? Give me facts.

Because Bordeleau at least has the potential of providing offense instead of providing neither offense nor defense or the bare minimum of physicality the ones I mentioned do. And I don't know where you're getting this "hating" Grier nonsense. I can be critical of the guy, especially when it comes to the thing he was hired to do (win) and not hate the man.

 

[Hodge]

Where did the idea that Bordeleau has the potential of providing offense come from? 0.66 AHL points per game is terrible for a one-way smurf.

 

[coooldude]

I'll go so far as to say that if Kovalenko, Gregor, or Kostin were sent down to the AHL, they'd look better than Bords and Gush. People forget that players look worse in the NHL and better in the AHL (usually). Bailey was an AHL PPG guy. Pots led the AHL in scoring and barely held on for dear life in the NHL.

I think about this every time people whine about mediocre replacement level prospects not getting a chance to unseat the disappointing bot6 vets, and this whining happens constantly and persistently over the years, whether we're good or bad. Tweener guys are tweeners. JAGs are JAGs.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Because Bordeleau at least has the potential of providing offense instead of providing neither offense nor defense or the bare minimum of physicality the ones I mentioned do. And I don't know where you're getting this "hating" Grier nonsense. I can be critical of the guy, especially when it comes to the thing he was hired to do (win) and not hate the man.

Why does he have the potential to provide offense more than Grundstrom, Kovalenko, and Dellandrea? Those three would comfortably outscore what Bordeleau did in the AHL this year. Ostapchuk is younger and plays a completely different sort of role, not even comparable.

 

[GRANdSharks]

guys like grundstrom, gregor, kostin, etc aren't keeping our young players from playing time, the reality is if someone showed good enough they would have played over them, we saw this with Graf. unfortunately for guys like guschin and bords they dident play well enough to warrent that opportunity. Guschin had 10 games at the start and did nothing with it, bords was injured but when healthy was eh in the AHL. its just not good enough and you don't want skill guys in the bottom 6 getting shelled every night our collection of plugs are perfect for that role until we get better role guys.

 

[TheBeard]

guys like grundstrom, gregor, kostin, etc aren't keeping our young players from playing time, the reality is if someone showed good enough they would have played over them, we saw this with Graf. unfortunately for guys like guschin and bords they dident play well enough to warrent that opportunity. Guschin had 10 games at the start and did nothing with it, bords was injured but when healthy was eh in the AHL. its just not good enough and you don't want skill guys in the bottom 6 getting shelled every night our collection of plugs are perfect for that role until we get better role guys.

It's tough to say. Grier's focus was on Smith and Celebrini and it seems even before the season started he was intent on loading up the rest of the lineup with vets. Graf got an extended look and ended up sticking around for most of the season and Grier, I imagine, didn't want to go overboard with unproven kids regardless of their play. Ostapchuk showed that you didn't have to play well to get playing time as a kid.

 

[Jargon]

Look, I really wanted Bordeleau and Goose to succeed and make this team but as multiple people have said, Graf showed how you do that. Sheng talks about this a bunch — it’s that B game. Graf could be trusted, and then he started scoring, so he proved he could stick in the NHL. Goose had a chance but he neither scored nor really had a B game, so he lost the spot.

Bordeleau got hurt and didn’t get a chance, it sucks for him but you look at him and compare him to guys like Chernyshov, Graf, Eklund when he first came in, etc. and you realize he’s just not that level of prospect. If he was not only killing it in the AHL but also developing a B game, he’d have been up — he didn’t and wasn’t and his performance was sadly middling. If you can’t beat out Dellandrea, Kostin, etc. for a spot, you don’t deserve the spot.

Whatever his faults, Kovalenko is a far better NHL player than Bordeleau and Gushchin.

In general, I think what Grier and Warsofsky want is a highly competitive culture where you earn your stripes. Yes, we’re the worst team in the league, but you still have to play the way they want you to play to make the team. That’s not a bad thing. Consider DW teams at the end where guys like Suomela were our 3C… it didn’t work.

 

[Skeksis25]

I’d rather see them play the rookies and showcase their value. Then we can package and trade them for bigger fish like pennies for a dollar.

They were playing though. On the Barracuda. And didn't impress anyone. Why do you think on the NHL club, they would suddenly "showcase their value". I know fans get enamoured by rookies and prospects, but they have to earn their roles on the big club too, don't they? And they do that in practice, in the minors, in the study rooms, etc. Most of which, we don't see. So, we sit here and act like unless they are playing big minutes on the big club, they are not getting opportunities.

 

[Star Platinum]

In general, I think what Grier and Warsofsky want is a highly competitive culture where you earn your stripes.

Generally yes, but Ostapchuk didn't earn his playing time. I'll be interested to see if he gets the same rope this year.

 

[Roasted Nuts]

Generally yes, but Ostapchuk didn't earn his playing time. I'll be interested to see if he gets the same rope this year.

Yep, Ostapchuk definitely was the exception to the rule. I guess the mandate doesn’t apply to guys who are 6’3 and above, cause he likes them big and strong …

 

[Jargon]

Generally yes, but Ostapchuk didn't earn his playing time. I'll be interested to see if he gets the same rope this year.

Ostapchuk plays kind of a different role than Bordeleau and Goose and even Graf.

Also, I think they kinda wanted to see what they had in him — like Graf playing after they signed him out of college.

I’m sure he actually has to work for him to make the team next year.

 

[weastern bias]

Ostapchuk got playing time because he's scrap heap fodder the organization doesn't care about who was used as a post-deadline tank sacrifice to intentionally make the bottom-6 worse and improve our draft pick

He was never a part of the meritocracy, he was this year's version of Jack Studnicka

We traded Zetterlund for a 2nd round pick and cap space, Ostapchuk is just the contract who came back that coincidentally helped us tank, he was the forward version of Georgiev as an asset and player this year

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Ostapchuk got playing time because he's scrap heap fodder the organization doesn't care about who was used as a post-deadline tank sacrifice to intentionally make the bottom-6 worse and improve our draft pick

He was never a part of the meritocracy, he was this year's version of Jack Studnicka

We traded Zetterlund for a 2nd round pick and cap space, Ostapchuk is just the contract who came back that coincidentally helped us tank, he was the forward version of Georgiev as an asset and player this year

Grier definitely thought Ostapchuk wasn't worthless. Admitting he completely missed on that would sound a lot better than trading your second best goal scorer for a mid second and cap.

Ostapchuk will be on the opening night roster 100% unless a vet 4C is signed.

 

[spintops]

I hope Ostapchuk turns into something - But he should start in the AHL and dominate there first.

 

[OrrNumber4]

You also have to trust coaches and scouts. They know the players much better, and will know better if a player "has what it takes".

I always think about Joshua Hennessy, a very productive AHL player who never got a chance with the Sharks. We couldn't figure out why the Sharks didn't give him a chance, and it turns out that the organization just knew he wasn't good enough.

 

[weastern bias]

Grier definitely thought Ostapchuk wasn't worthless. Admitting he completely missed on that would sound a lot better than trading your second best goal scorer for a mid second and cap.

Ostapchuk will be on the opening night roster 100% unless a vet 4C is signed.

NHL GM says positive things about a player he traded for, more news at 11

The Zetterlund trade was obviously a salary move the day it happened, Grier didn't value him as a core piece so he moved off of him before he could demand a terrible contract, it was just smart business

Ostapchuk very well might be on the opening night roster next year, but that's because this team sucks, Luke Kunin is one of the worst players in the league and he was a mainstay on the roster for almost 3 years, there's going to be holes because we don't actually have 12 quality NHL forwards in our organization, we aren't the worst team in hockey by chance, it's a talent problem

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

NHL GM says positive things about a player he traded for, more news at 11

The Zetterlund trade was obviously a salary move the day it happened, Grier didn't value him as a core piece so he moved off of him before he could demand a terrible contract, it was just smart business

Ostapchuk very well might be on the opening night roster next year, but that's because this team sucks, Luke Kunin is one of the worst players in the league and he was a mainstay on the roster for almost 3 years, there's going to be holes because we don't actually have 12 quality NHL forwards in our organization, we aren't the worst team in hockey by chance, it's a talent problem

If a GM trades a player like Zetterlund for a mid 2nd, especially given the circumstances, he should not be a GM.

 

[weastern bias]

If a GM trades a player like Zetterlund for a mid 2nd, he should not be a GM.

A player like Zetterlund is an empty calorie 3rd line winger who puts up inflated stats on a bad team who can't play any defense, can't drive play, doesn't kill penalties and isn't a physical deterrent

Zetterlund is nothing special as a player, he made the best on minutes on the worst team in hockey and racked up meaningless stats while contributing nothing that actually leads to winning, Grier sold incredibly high on Zetterlund, it was a smart trade

 

[TheBeard]

We traded Zetterlund for a 2nd round pick and cap space, Ostapchuk is just the contract who came back that coincidentally helped us tank, he was the forward version of Georgiev as an asset and player this year

Agreed. Grier has now traded for or signed, I believe 40 guys so far that he was convinced is the team's future 3C.

It was clearly a 2nd round pick that Grier wanted.

 

[TheBeard]

A player like Zetterlund is an empty calorie 3rd line winger who puts up inflated stats on a bad team who can't play any defense, can't drive play, doesn't kill penalties and isn't a physical deterrent

So he's Ostapchuk but with inflated stats