Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Cas]

intangibles, brah

Honestly, I don't really believe in those.

 

[sampler]

TBH, I would be OK with adding a small army of overpaid vets. The goal this year is still development. Wins are good, but development and future acquisitions are still the primary goal, I would think. I do hope they win more games, but I want them set up for summer '26. I want NHL experience for as many of the kids as possible. I want to own half the '26 draft. I want to see Dick, Musty, and Cherny in pro action.

I see '25-26 as the final year of the rebuild phase, and I want the transition from rebuild to BUILD occurring in summer '26.

the '26 UFA crop is strong though of course most will be resigned from their own teams; Mcdavid, Eichel, makar, Kaprizov, Connor, kempe... Still, as in every year, there will be some quality out there, and some teams will disappoint putting some players on the trade block. I expect that grier, if armed with tons of picks, should be able to add 3 high quality players that summer, including at least 1 top 4D.

he doesnt have to have everything squared away by start of '26-27, but he can be in talent acquisition mode starting that summer, and he can extend smith, celly, and asky next summer too to give certainly going forward.

p.s.: I just realized that acquiring more '26 1st round draft capital might be tough. The Oilers (us), panthers (chi), Avs (NYI), tampa (sea), Dal (car), tor (bos), vegas (cgy) all already do not have a 1st, so unless some teams surprise, the market for rentals may be thin...

 

[Hodge]

Would you trade the Dallas pick for Will Cuylle? Would the Rangers do that?

I know we could potentially sign him to an offer sheet for 2nd round pick compensation but A) Cuylle has to actually sign the offer sheet whereas if we trade for him we control his rights no matter what and B) our 2nd next year will be a max of like 10 slots lower than the Dallas 1st in a better draft so why burn bridges with Drury/NYR over that.

 

[Jargon]

Would you trade the Dallas pick for Will Cuylle? Would the Rangers do that?

I know we could potentially sign him to an offer sheet for 2nd round pick compensation but A) Cuylle has to actually sign the offer sheet whereas if we trade for him we control his rights no matter what and B) our 2nd next year will be a max of like 10 slots lower than the Dallas 1st in a better draft so why burn bridges with Drury/NYR over that.

100%. This draft blows and getting a young, big middle 6 forward seems like a no brainer. I haven’t watched much of him but I like what I’ve read! I think this is exactly the kind of move Grier should be doing with those late 1sts, especially in bad drafts.

 

[Hodge]

100%. This draft blows and getting a young, big middle 6 forward seems like a no brainer. I haven’t watched much of him but I like what I’ve read! I think this is exactly the kind of move Grier should be doing with those late 1sts, especially in bad drafts.

I'm just not sure what a fair price would be for him. One comparable trade off the top of my head was Troy Brouwer to the Caps for the 26th overall pick in 2011. But I think Brouwer was a couple years older and had arbitration rights which Cuylle doesn't.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Would you trade the Dallas pick for Will Cuylle? Would the Rangers do that?

I know we could potentially sign him to an offer sheet for 2nd round pick compensation but A) Cuylle has to actually sign the offer sheet whereas if we trade for him we control his rights no matter what and B) our 2nd next year will be a max of like 10 slots lower than the Dallas 1st in a better draft so why burn bridges with Drury/NYR over that.

I would easily. I doubt NYR does it personally, I don't think Cuylle is someone they want to lose unless forced.

The only way it could maayyybe happen IMO would be if Drury is worried about Cuylle getting an offer sheet in the 2nd round pick range and not being able to match, and Grier swoops in to offer up a 1st round pick to help Drury save face.

Honestly, the coldest thing Grier could do would be to conspire with a GM of a really good team (whose 2026 2nd will be extremely late) to threaten the Rangers with a Cuylle offer sheet, then Grier slides into Drury's DMs, offers the Dallas 1st (plus Halttunen or Lund or something even I'd do) for him. If he gets turned down still, then pivot to offering to take Kreider to help the Rangers cap.

 

[coooldude]

Frankly, I don't think Celebrini and Smith needed Granlund and Toffoli to develop. I think they're outstanding talents and would have developed just fine next to just about anyone.

I do not believe you need a bunch of "experienced veterans" to develop a successful team. I believe you need good players to do that. If ten of our twelve best forwards in 26-27 are young players, then that's what we should go with (though I don't believe is that this will be the case).

Gushchin, Cardwell, Bordeleau, and Bystedt didn't get more NHL time this year because they didn't make a case for it. I'm also not entirely convinced that was an entirely correct decision - certainly they might have more to show than has-beens or never-weres like Goodrow or Grundstrom.

Being a professional hockey player is a job. Like any job, there's a lot to learn to do that job well. Mentors and good managers are a big deal in the professional world. No company in the world puts the smartest new grads into the working world and just expects them to get better because they're smart and high potential. You need to learn from people who have been doing it for a long time, even if you're already smarter than them, even if you're going to go farther than them.

In general I don't believe in losing culture in a locker room, I don't believe the org is at risk of failure unless the owner/MGMT are dysfunctional. I do, however, having played competitive sports, having existed in the working world, and having spoken to my accomplished athlete friends, strongly believe that veteran mentorship matters, and leadership groups matter.

 

[Hodge]

I would easily. I doubt NYR does it personally, I don't think Cuylle is someone they want to lose unless forced.

The only way it could maayyybe happen IMO would be if Drury is worried about Cuylle getting an offer sheet in the 2nd round pick range and not being able to match, and Grier swoops in to offer up a 1st round pick to help Drury save face.

Honestly, the coldest thing Grier could do would be to conspire with a GM of a really good team (whose 2026 2nd will be extremely late) to threaten the Rangers with a Cuylle offer sheet, then Grier slides into Drury's DMs, offers the Dallas 1st (plus Halttunen or Lund or something even I'd do) for him. If he gets turned down still, then pivot to offering to take Kreider to help the Rangers cap.

That's a great idea. I guess the Rangers probably don't have incentive to move Cuylle without a legit offer sheet threat since he's arb ineligible and they could just squeeze him into taking a short term low AAV deal.

 

[Patty Ice]

Would you trade the Dallas pick for Will Cuylle? Would the Rangers do that?

I know we could potentially sign him to an offer sheet for 2nd round pick compensation but A) Cuylle has to actually sign the offer sheet whereas if we trade for him we control his rights no matter what and B) our 2nd next year will be a max of like 10 slots lower than the Dallas 1st in a better draft so why burn bridges with Drury/NYR over that.

I'd do that deal all day. You'd hope your late 1st pick ends up half as good as him.

 

[Jargon]

Being a professional hockey player is a job. Like any job, there's a lot to learn to do that job well. Mentors and good managers are a big deal in the professional world. No company in the world puts the smartest new grads into the working world and just expects them to get better because they're smart and high potential. You need to learn from people who have been doing it for a long time, even if you're already smarter than them, even if you're going to go farther than them.

In general I don't believe in losing culture in a locker room, I don't believe the org is at risk of failure unless the owner/MGMT are dysfunctional. I do, however, having played competitive sports, having existed in the working world, and having spoken to my accomplished athlete friends, strongly believe that veteran mentorship matters, and leadership groups matter.

Very much this. Mentors are important across the board. I don’t care how much talent you have, experience is half the battle and good leaders will help young guys grow to their potential much faster.

I don’t think it’s an accident that we had guys like Granlund, Wennberg, Toffoli and Celebrini/Smith flourished (not right away for Smith but eventually) while being generally happy, joyful kids throughout the season, while Bedard has no one and looks like he has to watch his cat get murdered every game.

 

[Juxtaposer]

That's a great idea. I guess the Rangers probably don't have incentive to move Cuylle without a legit offer sheet threat since he's arb ineligible and they could just squeeze him into taking a short term low AAV deal.

Thank you, I thought it was a delightfully manipulative idea.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[STL Shark]

Honestly, I don't really believe in those.

Must not work in accounting - where intangibles are very real.

 

[STL Shark]

Would you trade the Dallas pick for Will Cuylle? Would the Rangers do that?

I know we could potentially sign him to an offer sheet for 2nd round pick compensation but A) Cuylle has to actually sign the offer sheet whereas if we trade for him we control his rights no matter what and B) our 2nd next year will be a max of like 10 slots lower than the Dallas 1st in a better draft so why burn bridges with Drury/NYR over that.

I think if offered $4.5M for 2 years he'd be inclined to take the offersheet. Only way he wouldn't would be if there was some Labanc stuff going on behind the scenes where the next contract was sitting signed in the drawer once the cap room opens up and it's a much larger deal than he thinks he'd otherwise get.

If you're only offering 1 year at that number, might not be worth the drama. 2 years though and there is more incentive for the player since he avoids 2 arb cycles instead of just 1.

 

[hockfan1991]

See, I can't lie, that's my issue.

I'm not against trading prospects.
I'm not after building an entire team with prospects (as has been mischaracterised in the initial reply to my post). Reductionism is a two way street, though, and in my humble opinion, it's the easy option for an impatient fan to make this sound like the nuclear option which wins.

To me, if you want to trade them - call out the players you want that fit (positionally, culturally etc) and then - and this is the kicker - price realistically how much you think they'd cost. In my experience, the types of players most covet are rarely available for anything less than a trade premium or an overpay in free agency because the demand outstrips the supply.

I can sit here and say "yeah, I want a top pairing RD" and that's all well and good but in reality it's far more complex. Indeed, it's as easy to screw up as it is get right.

Again, that's why I think some degree of patience is needed. Adding the 4/5 players we'd need to accelerate things is not easily done, otherwise everyone would do it.

With Willander trade rumors going thats an option.

Not really into Dobson as he is due to have a heavy pay day. If he was 2-3 years younger and i had cost controlled years before he dips, you could convince me to take him.

Byram as the are log jammed on the left side in Buffalo. There are options.

I proposed Dallas 1st, our second to get back in the 17 range if Hensler drops.

i like the idea of sampler NY Dallas 1st, our 2nd for #12 and krieder.

Truth is Mikey G is connected and not all info is leaked. there are forwards d men that are disgruntled that want new contracts change of scenery. That we have no idea about. they are not gaurantees to be moved but this exists all around pro sports. he didnt expect to trade Hertl the deal got done at 2:59est, as long as hes doing his due diligence i have no doubt theres some options.

 

[hockfan1991]

Nice shopping list. Would be amazing. Grier said clearly he ain't giving term. So expect nothing longer than 3 years, and expect mostly garbage. It's grier (at least at this stage), so expecting that he would commit term and $$$ to a quality players is foolhardy. Furthermore, expecting that he will add a guy like Dobson is also foolhardy as he would have to commit term and $$ to him too. And at 25, hes obviously way too old (see zetterlund).

3-5 more Lljgrens, goodrows, Dyllandreas, Grundstroms, and Desharnaises coming right up! Any actual quality will likely only come if there is pick attached (like Kreider or some other salary dump).

Pardon my cynicism. Aside from Toffoli, which was a family decision, Grier has yet to add a top 4D or top 6F, aside from draft or cap dump, to this franchise. I don't expect that trend to change, at least not this summer. I got the feeling from his postseason presser that he is still in future asset acquisition mode and not yet ready to lock in the roster.

The success/failure of the team this coming yer will rest on the shoulders of the kids. It will rest on how well dick and mukh do on D. How well Misa does if he jumps straight in. How well celly, smith, Ek, and Graf do. I dont think they are gunna get a whole lot of reinforcements.

For the right player he would, you can hear that in his comments but its well documented to not be his preference. Under special circumstances you do it. But not very likely that a player thats worth that term will want to come here, but fun to fantasize about.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Hodge]

Time to wake up from the dream.

 

[matt trick]

I wouldn't hate Zonnon with Dallas's first as a big winger to add to our pool of that type. Cuylle becoming Zonnon in four years would be about as good an outcome as you could hope for a late first. To get the 22 year-old proven NHL version would be ideal. I was pro offer sheet but SJ's 1st is a much better option.

You could easily get an offer sheet from a divisional rival like Carolina and now your DAL 28th overall is 58th overall and a year later. Like it.

I like Willander and Byram (or both!) quite a bit, but I think both teams will be looking for centers or in Byram's case a RHD (to pair with Dahlin or Power). Dobson is probably a top 10-15 RHD in the league. Liljigren is our top RHD (probably top 60-70), but I still can't get excited about Dobson. I just don't think he's a winning player.

 

[Star Platinum]

Thank you, I thought it was a delightfully manipulative idea.

That's a great idea. I guess the Rangers probably don't have incentive to move Cuylle without a legit offer sheet threat since he's arb ineligible and they could just squeeze him into taking a short term low AAV deal.

 

[Star Platinum]

He gone

 

[coooldude]

For the right player he would, you can hear that in his comments but its well documented to not be his preference. Under special circumstances you do it. But not very likely that a player thats worth that term will want to come here, but fun to fantasize about.

I've tried correcting that poster multiple times to no avail. Grier specifically said it wasn't his preference to do term and that his target is 4-5 years (one year more than he said last year) but he also didn't rule out longer. What he said he would NOT do is sign like 3 guys to max term deals for big money "and then two of them don't work out and you're regretting it down the line." So I still think he would be open to one big contract.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I know people are down on him, and I know his mere existence is very triggering for some posters around here, and I'm certainly not trying to excuse his poor performance as a Shark, but we really and truly need to just erase the last couple months from our heads and let Ostapchuk come in with a fresh slate in camp next September.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I know people are down on him, and I know his mere existence is very triggering for some posters around here, and I'm certainly not trying to excuse his poor performance as a Shark, but we really and truly need to just erase the last couple months from our heads and let Ostapchuk come in with a fresh slate in camp next September.

I'm sure the team will set it up in a way that he will have an opportunity to make the big club next season. We will have Goodrow, Grundstrom, Dellandrea, Ostapchuk, Giles, Bystedt, and Cardwell as 4th line options for next season before any offseason movement. Nobody really stands out in that group at this point. If he heals up, has a solid offseason, and finds another level to his game, he can have a turnaround similar to Zetterlund's after he first came here. He just needs to be quicker in everything he does and he can probably carve something out for himself here.

 

[matt trick]

I'm sure the team will set it up in a way that he will have an opportunity to make the big club next season. We will have Goodrow, Grundstrom, Dellandrea, Ostapchuk, Giles, Bystedt, and Cardwell as 4th line options for next season before any offseason movement. Nobody really stands out in that group at this point. If he heals up, has a solid offseason, and finds another level to his game, he can have a turnaround similar to Zetterlund's after he first came here. He just needs to be quicker in everything he does and he can probably carve something out for himself here.

Wouldn't mind him playing the first half of the year in the AHL. Though people here will freak out due to him being the main piece for Zetts. If he is playing 4th line minutes getting shelled with Goodrow (who's not going anywhere) and Delly, he's not going to grow. Give him 15-18 minutes a night in the AHL, so he can develop his offensive game. Maybe try him at net front on a PP2. I project him as a good 4C, but if he's going to deliver on being a 3C having an opportunity to put up some points couldn't hurt.

Potularski looks to be gone, but he (or a vet 1C replacement), Bystedt, and Chuck at center with Cherny, Musty, Lund, Halt, Cardwell, Gush and a vet on the wings is a good forward core. Add in Thompson, Cags, Schuldt, and Carlsson and it should be a good AHL team provided goaltending gets sorted.