Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[hohosaregood]

Yeah, I think following a rebuild has really taught me a lot about prospects and future-casting. What I'm realizing is that it's so rare for a prospect to not just make it but be a legitimate part of the core, that sometimes it's best to trade them before they might fail. Like Musty right now is a big maybe -- there's a chance he delivers and if he does, awesome, but if we can use him to get a legit defenseman? Absolutely.

It's why I'm more hesitant to move, say, Eklund, than I am a guy like that, because Eklund HAS proved he's legit player in the NHL and while he's replaceable and I would move him for the right guy, I'd much rather keep him for now because we are in bad need of young, top 6 forwards.

The secondary part of a rebuild is stashing trade currency. The dream is for those prospects to become the core but like you said it's rare for it to happen. But, you can convert the multitude of prospects and players from the rebuild into members of the core. That's why teams ultimately fall apart at the end of a window. They no longer have extra value they can use to improve their roster internally or externally without hurting their current lineup. Right now, our war chest is looking good but we still need to really load up on trade currency in the upcoming draft to be able to build out the core without making unnecessary sacrifices

 

[TheBeard]

I’d like to think it was none of our usual posters, and certainly have no reason to point a finger at anyone. It is likely the most complicated region in the world, and I tend to avoid getting into discussion as I have no idea what a solution would look like, so I mostly listen to try and understand from those with more knowledge or experience.

Hopefully my post made no offense.

Everyone knows the solution and it's so goddamn simple

 

[OrrNumber4]

Everyone knows the solution and it's so goddamn simple

A lot of people in that region are teetotalers...which, fair point, is probably connected to the issue...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Thats my point. Once the late firsts/ 2nd rounders become something we dont see in our future neither does any other club, they have no value at that point. I just would like to take a couple/ not all, of these lotto tickets that have value now to give us an opportunity to improve the big club for now and in the future if that piece fits. its a gaurantee that some will fizzle out, just like one could succeed. I would like to give our team the best opportunity to get a forsure player.

It's not necessarily true that once a prospect is not in the club's future that they wouldn't be in another team's. I think it's pretty good odds to be the case but not all the time. The odds that some will fail don't really change if you take less shots at it. I think a team like the Sharks needs to continue getting these sorts of picks and taking their shots at it instead of trying to rush a rebuild. These assets don't tend to pull top end players that make a real difference in making the team better. They tend to get second pairing guys or middle six guys. I don't think the Sharks need to concern themselves with filling those spots with a trade unless it's like a cap dump style trade. At least not this offseason. Maybe next one depending on who takes another step next season.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Everyone knows the solution and it's so goddamn simple

Lmao classic

 

[Jargon]

I’d like to think it was none of our usual posters, and certainly have no reason to point a finger at anyone. It is likely the most complicated region in the world, and I tend to avoid getting into discussion as I have no idea what a solution would look like, so I mostly listen to try and understand from those with more knowledge or experience.

Hopefully my post made no offense.

As someone affected by the going ons of that region it’s very very refreshing to hear someone go, hey I’m just learning about it and offering no opinions. It’s a rarity nowadays, thanks to social media, now people just throw out their wildly inflammatory and often uneducated thoughts and move on with their day while the affected have to live with the repercussions. It’s exhausting.

So anyway, much appreciated!

 

[Pavelski2112]

As someone affected by the going ons of that region it’s very very refreshing to hear someone go, hey I’m just learning about it and offering no opinions. It’s a rarity nowadays, thanks to social media, now people just throw out their wildly inflammatory and often uneducated thoughts and move on with their day while the affected have to live with the repercussions. It’s exhausting.

So anyway, much appreciated!

Either way it's a hockey forum and we all gotta pick our battles

No one's going to convince anyone of anything here

 

[weastern bias]

No one's going to convince anyone of anything here

I'm not convinced that's true

 

[Jargon]

Either way it's a hockey forum and we all gotta pick our battles

No one's going to convince anyone of anything here

I'll convince Hodge that we need to pick Michael Misa except f***ing Frondell.

 

[tiburon12]

Everyone knows the solution and it's so goddamn simple

No joke that guy playing the cop is my buddy (this was shot in BKK). Right after it was shot he came to a big dinner SO jacked up about the ad. Of course is had brutal blowback hahaha

 

[Cas]

My point has been misunderstood (apparently by a blocked user, which makes sense because I block idiots and hacks). I'm not talking about the lack of space in the system overall (and that's rarely an issue nowadays), but on the pro team. You can only have so much youth/inexperience on the roster. Let's say in 2026-2027, this is the starting lineup:

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Musty-Smith-Chernyshov
Bystedt-Graf-Halttunen
Goodrow-Ostapchuk-Lund

After Toffoli and Goodrow, your most experienced forward would be Eklund with 4 seasons under his belt. That's a poor recipe for success and development...especially if you are the type who credited Granlund and Toffoli for the way they mentored Celebrini and Smith this season.

So, you must leave some spots for veterans and established NHL players. Hell, this is probably partly why Gushchin, Bordeleau, Cardwell, and Bystedt didn't get more NHL time this season.

Hence, it makes sense to trade futures for some young, talented guys who can fill the middle of the team

Frankly, I don't think Celebrini and Smith needed Granlund and Toffoli to develop. I think they're outstanding talents and would have developed just fine next to just about anyone.

I do not believe you need a bunch of "experienced veterans" to develop a successful team. I believe you need good players to do that. If ten of our twelve best forwards in 26-27 are young players, then that's what we should go with (though I don't believe is that this will be the case).

Gushchin, Cardwell, Bordeleau, and Bystedt didn't get more NHL time this year because they didn't make a case for it. I'm also not entirely convinced that was an entirely correct decision - certainly they might have more to show than has-beens or never-weres like Goodrow or Grundstrom.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Frankly, I don't think Celebrini and Smith needed Granlund and Toffoli to develop. I think they're outstanding talents and would have developed just fine next to just about anyone.

To clarify, it's not a dichotomy; I think prospects, even high-caliber ones like Celebrini and Smith, do better with the support and shelter provided by NHL veterans.

I do not believe you need a bunch of "experienced veterans" to develop a successful team. I believe you need good players to do that. If ten of our twelve best forwards in 26-27 are young players, then that's what we should go with (though I don't believe is that this will be the case).

I don't exactly have specific evidence to say otherwise. All I can do is gesture in the direction of all the teams in NHL history. It's "common knowledge" in that sense...though I would be interested in seeing hard data either way.

I would also add that, whatever you may think, or whatever the truth may be, NHL coaches/GMs do not like icing extremely young lineups.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

i dont have specific player in mind.

See, I can't lie, that's my issue.

I'm not against trading prospects.
I'm not after building an entire team with prospects (as has been mischaracterised in the initial reply to my post). Reductionism is a two way street, though, and in my humble opinion, it's the easy option for an impatient fan to make this sound like the nuclear option which wins.

To me, if you want to trade them - call out the players you want that fit (positionally, culturally etc) and then - and this is the kicker - price realistically how much you think they'd cost. In my experience, the types of players most covet are rarely available for anything less than a trade premium or an overpay in free agency because the demand outstrips the supply.

I can sit here and say "yeah, I want a top pairing RD" and that's all well and good but in reality it's far more complex. Indeed, it's as easy to screw up as it is get right.

Again, that's why I think some degree of patience is needed. Adding the 4/5 players we'd need to accelerate things is not easily done, otherwise everyone would do it.

 

[OrrNumber4]

See, I can't lie, that's my issue.

I'm not against trading prospects.
I'm not after building an entire team with prospects (as has been mischaracterised in the initial reply to my post). Reductionism is a two way street, though, and in my humble opinion, it's the easy option for an impatient fan to make this sound like the nuclear option which wins.

To me, if you want to trade them - call out the players you want that fit (positionally, culturally etc) and then - and this is the kicker - price realistically how much you think they'd cost. In my experience, the types of players most covet are rarely available for anything less than a trade premium or an overpay in free agency because the demand outstrips the supply.

I can sit here and say "yeah, I want a top pairing RD" and that's all well and good but in reality it's far more complex. Indeed, it's as easy to screw up as it is get right.

Again, that's why I think some degree of patience is needed. Adding the 4/5 players we'd need to accelerate things is not easily done, otherwise everyone would do it.

OK, let me try!

Options:
1) Gavrikov, at 8x7
2) Ekblad, at 9x5
3) Dobson for Musty, Halttunen, and the Dallas first...or maybe Dobson for Ferraro and the pick. Maybe take on Duclair's contract to lower the price
4) Kreider...for free?
5) Marchment for SJ's 2nd, or for taking Dumba's contract?
6) JT Compher for free?
7) Sam Bennett for 9x5
8) Brock Nelson 9x3
9) Take on Mrazek's contract to get Gustafsson for free?

 

[Grinner]

OK, let me try!

Options:
1) Gavrikov, at 8x7
2) Ekblad, at 9x5
3) Dobson for Musty, Halttunen, and the Dallas first...or maybe Dobson for Ferraro and the pick. Maybe take on Duclair's contract to lower the price
4) Kreider...for free?
5) Marchment for SJ's 2nd, or for taking Dumba's contract?
6) JT Compher for free?
7) Sam Bennett for 9x5
8) Brock Nelson 9x3
9) Take on Mrazek's contract to get Gustafsson for free?

I'd rather spend assets acquiring Wallander than Dobson.

That's some wishlist/ shopping list

 

[tiburon12]

Any thoughts on throwing some cash at Jonathan Toews?

 

[matt trick]

OK, let me try!

Options:
1) Gavrikov, at 8x7
2) Ekblad, at 9x5
3) Dobson for Musty, Halttunen, and the Dallas first...or maybe Dobson for Ferraro and the pick. Maybe take on Duclair's contract to lower the price
4) Kreider...for free?
5) Marchment for SJ's 2nd, or for taking Dumba's contract?
6) JT Compher for free?
7) Sam Bennett for 9x5
8) Brock Nelson 9x3
9) Take on Mrazek's contract to get Gustafsson for free?

Gav gets more, Ekblad gets longer, Dobson will cost more: something akin to Dal 1st, Musty/Cherny, and Edmonton’s 1st (but from someone else). Kreider, viable. Marchment, reasonable. Compher probably would work for them. Bennett gets 7 yrs or goes to a contender. Realistically I think FLA re-signs 8x$6.5. $52M vs $63M on a $9x7 but no state tax, contender, etc. Nelson is viable, but a contender/playoff team will find cash for him. Marcel probably won’t get moved. Gustafson is probably available for a mid pick.

Call me a wet blanket, but yeah not that hopeful!

 

[Roasted Nuts]

How about trading the next years first for Parekh? We could reunite the Saginaw trio of Misa, Chernyshov and Parekh, and also fill the top RHD spot.

 

[Roasted Nuts]

How about trading next years first for Parekh? We could reunite the Saginaw trio of Misa, Chernyshov and Parekh, and also fill the top RHD spot.

Can’t delete lol

 

[STL Shark]

I'll convince Hodge that we need to pick Michael Misa except f***ing Frondell.

Easiest way to do that is if we all decide that we should pick Frondell. His contrarian nature will not allow him to be part of the crowd.

 

[Cas]

Any thoughts on throwing some cash at Jonathan Toews?

I can't imagine he has anything left worth even spending minimum on.

 

[tiburon12]

I can't imagine he has anything left worth even spending minimum on.

intangibles, brah

 

[Hodge]

I'll convince Hodge that we need to pick Michael Misa except f***ing Frondell.

Never said we should pick Frondell over Misa, just that I would understand and be fine with it if we did.

 

[sampler]

Nice shopping list. Would be amazing. Grier said clearly he ain't giving term. So expect nothing longer than 3 years, and expect mostly garbage. It's grier (at least at this stage), so expecting that he would commit term and $$$ to a quality players is foolhardy. Furthermore, expecting that he will add a guy like Dobson is also foolhardy as he would have to commit term and $$ to him too. And at 25, hes obviously way too old (see zetterlund).

3-5 more Lljgrens, goodrows, Dyllandreas, Grundstroms, and Desharnaises coming right up! Any actual quality will likely only come if there is pick attached (like Kreider or some other salary dump).

Pardon my cynicism. Aside from Toffoli, which was a family decision, Grier has yet to add a top 4D or top 6F, aside from draft or cap dump, to this franchise. I don't expect that trend to change, at least not this summer. I got the feeling from his postseason presser that he is still in future asset acquisition mode and not yet ready to lock in the roster.

The success/failure of the team this coming yer will rest on the shoulders of the kids. It will rest on how well dick and mukh do on D. How well Misa does if he jumps straight in. How well celly, smith, Ek, and Graf do. I dont think they are gunna get a whole lot of reinforcements.

 

[Jargon]

Never said we should pick Frondell over Misa, just that I would understand and be fine with it if we did.

I know, I was just joking.