Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Sharkz4Fun]

Jux, seriously, why don't you have this poster blocked?

I always wonder how people like this function IRL. Like, what do you do if you meet someone who triggers you in person? Scream? Run away? Put your hand up to simulate blocking? I think we'd all be happier if we had her blocked

 

[Lebanezer]

I always wonder how people like this function IRL. Like, what do you do if you meet someone who triggers you in person? Scream? Run away? Put your hand up to simulate blocking? I think we'd all be happier if we had Jux blocked

Seriously, what is this? Life is a choice, but it's not limited to those 3 choices. You can just, you know, walk away, or not interact with that person.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Seriously, what is this? Life is a choice, but it's not limited to those 3 choices. You can just, you know, walk away, or not interact with that person.

But how are you supposed to let that person know you blocked them?

 

[Lebanezer]

But how are you supposed to let that person know you blocked them?

Is it necessary for them to know they're blocked?

 

[Cas]

You can have enough Sub A prospects at some point. We are already getting log jammed...

In what way are we, the worst team in the league, "already getting log jammed?"

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Is it necessary for them to know they're blocked?

If we're using this board as any indication as to how these people act IRL, I think the blocker definitely thinks so. I've seen the word block used on this board more than the Tetris boards I frequent. Who the f*** cares lol

 

[TheBeard]

Is it necessary for them to know they're blocked?

In all fairness, the biggest blockers like to remind everyone how much they prefer when everyone is on ignore.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I will ignore people who argue in bad faith. @Hodge has sometimes acknowledged when he is wrong, can concede a good point (if reluctantly), and generally makes good-faith interpretations of other posts.

When I had a "controversial" avatar earlier this year, some people sent nasty messages to me. I did ignore those people since bigots, racists, homophobes, anti-semites, etc. are working with broken equipment.

 

[Lebanezer]

If we're using this board as any indication as to how these people act IRL, I think the blocker definitely thinks so. I've seen the word block used on this board more than the Tetris boards I frequent. Who the f*** cares lol

People would never act like they do on a message board in real life. The anonymity is gone. You brought it up.

 

[matt trick]

I will ignore people who argue in bad faith. @Hodge has sometimes acknowledged when he is wrong, can concede a good point (if reluctantly), and generally makes good-faith interpretations of other posts.

When I had a "controversial" avatar earlier this year, some people sent nasty messages to me. I did ignore those people since bigots, racists, homophobes, anti-semites, etc. are working with broken equipment.

I recall you having good hockey discourse with someone (can’t remember another one of our best posters) who had the ‘opposing’ avatar. I never said anything, but I remember thinking how I thought that was cool. Bummed you had to deal with nasty message, and appreciate those demonstrating opposing viewpoints do as well.

Went to Israel twice last year (including three days before Iran’s attack) and spoke to dozens of people about their perspective. I left more enlightened yet more confused.

Thank god Trump will save the region by creating the Gaza riviera . There’s no problem he can’t make worse!

 

[STL Shark]

Im wondering if the strategy this summer is still one of pure future asset acquisition and drafting?

1. Use all your picks to either trade up and draft, or just draft in those slots.
2. Sign as many 1-2 yr vet UFAs as possible. intend to trade many/all of them at the TDL next year or after.
3. Accumulate as many picks as you can trading away vets, so that the '26 summer is set up with tons of picks in the first two rounds, and one of them being top 4 to ensure a big prize.
4. Give lots of chances to the kids including full time for Dick and Mukh and maybe even Cagnoni, along with Graf and Askarov. Also, bring up Lund, Musty, and Cherny if they earn it from the Cuda. The team will be super young, and so will lose lots of games, but the year experience will be invaluable, just as it was for Smith this year. And, at the end of the year, Pohlkamp and LSW can go pro as well and get a little NHL taste just as Lund got this year.

Seems, if grier doesnt mind one more year of stink, he should be able to capture at least two 1st rounders equivalent at the '26 TDL, just as he did this year for Granny and Walman. Wennberg, Liljgren, Ferraro, Desharnais, and two higher end vets like patrick kane or kreider ought to bring in a nice return from teams chasing the cup, and we do have a retention slot as needed.

If grier has FOUR 1st round picks and two second round picks going into next year's draft, he will be set up to be extremely aggressive in summer trading and UFA signing with potentially 70M+ in cap space. He might be ready and willing to revolutionize the roster in one summer.

he will have jettisoned all the extras (ferraro, liljgren, wennberg, dyllandrea, grundstrom... all gone). He'll have likely: Celly, Misa, EK, Smith, graf, cherny, Musty as at least 7 of the top 9 forwards and maybe bystedt, lund, ostapchuk in there too. On D, he'll see what he has in mukh, dick, cagnoni. He'll also know that the top '26 pick will fit in somewhere. And he'll know what hes got in Asky. In short, the holes will be much better known going into summer '26, and he'll have both the cap space and draft fodder to add 4-5 major impact players, including some $$$ and term...

One. more. year....

Grier doesn't have 1 more year of being in the cellar. You don't get to punt 4 years of being in the bottom of the league and keep your job in most instances. Have to show improvement and surround Macklin with winning players.

This nonsense that keeps getting pushed through here that we're going to have our entire roster filled with homegrown talent needs to stop. Nobody does it that way, and thus this idea that we need to suck another year so that we can give all of these young guys NHL time needs to stop with it.

Outside of Celebrini, Smith, Misa/Schaefer, Dickinson, Askarov, and 2026 SJ 1st rounder, nobody else is off limits as it pertains to making this team better (Eklund and Muk are close, but available in the right deal). The rest of the young players and young assets are more likely to be dealt for NHLers or never make it as an NHLer than they are to be contributors on the next Sharks playoff team. Better to move swiftly while there is still allure and value to some of these guys than to expose that they have no NHL future.

 

[matt trick]

Grier doesn't have 1 more year of being in the cellar. You don't get to punt 4 years of being in the bottom of the league and keep your job in most instances. Have to show improvement and surround Macklin with winning players.

This nonsense that keeps getting pushed through here that we're going to have our entire roster filled with homegrown talent needs to stop. Nobody does it that way, and thus this idea that we need to suck another year so that we can give all of these young guys NHL time needs to stop with it.

Outside of Celebrini, Smith, Misa/Schaefer, Dickinson, Askarov, and 2026 SJ 1st rounder, nobody else is off limits as it pertains to making this team better (Eklund and Muk are close, but available in the right deal). The rest of the young players and young assets are more likely to be dealt for NHLers or never make it as an NHLer than they are to be contributors on the next Sharks playoff team. Better to move swiftly while there is still allure and value to some of these guys than to expose that they have no NHL future.

I mostly agree, and think Grier certainly will. However, with Walman, Granny, Ceci, Blackwood, and Zetterlund moved on there’s an awful lot of talent to be replaced on what was already a bottom 3-5 team. Only Askarov feels likely to step in and be an improvement, and that’s taking the average or Georgiev and Blackwood. Celebrini, Smith, and Muk may build on rookie years while avoiding the sophomore slump. However, I’m not optimistic Grier will be able to replace Walman, Ceci, Zetts, and Granny. It’s not a great FA class, and we’re not the most desirable locale, especially presently.

I will say I do not want us to be last, and ideally we’d come out of the bottom three, but even with teams embracing ‘no Winna for McKenna’, I’d be stunned if we can get out of the bottom 5. That still gives us an elite prospect, which I’m a fan of.

If the team was dead last for a third year in a row, a head almost certainly needs to role in just about all situation. Grier would have cleared all cap, added a franchise player, and five elite prospects. As bad as the inherited situation was, the optics of being dead last in b2b years is bad enough, three would be unacceptable. However, I think Warso is probably the fall guy. I could maybe see giving Grier a 4th year, and Warso a third if they’re bottom three next year, but their seats would be red hot.

If Grier was committed to progression this upcoming year, why move Granny, Ceci, Zetts, and Walman for futures. All were open to being Sharks. 1. The belief that futures would allow for better acquisitions than our pending FA. 2. He wanted guys who unlike Walman, Granny, and Ceci have longer than 4-6 years of quality NHL play ahead of them. 3. He’s not under pressure to show progression for at least another year, and Hasso supports tanking to acquire more elite talent.

Grier seems to play things straight, but I don’t fully believe him when he says they projected the sharks to be bottom 5-7 not bottom 3. Smith, Celebrini, Blackwood, Eklund, Granny, Walman, Graf, Wenny, and Tofolli exceeded all expectations. Ceci was fine. Liljigren was added a third through the year.

Did we expect middle of the line-up play from Goodrow, Vlasic, Delly, Vanecek, Grundstrom, Thrun, Koistin, and Benning? Can’t imagine we were betting on Bords, Thompson, and Gush. I doubt it, but maybe there was optimism Couture would play 50 games at one point, because that’s the only way I see this years Sharks out of the bottom 5.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

I could be in the minority here but I don't give two hoots if we finish last overall next year.

And before I'm tagged as a fairweather fan, I have followed the Sharks since the early days of the Cow Palace.

Let the rookies grow as sophs, bring through the next batch of prospects to get their feet wet without the stakes being too high and draft near the top again next season. Doing the rebuild properly matters to me, not next year's position. While there are no guarantees, I'm perfectly happy for our improvement to be organic, because when you're desperate, that's when you overpay for FAs and make bad trades. I have enjoyed watching the Sharks this year.

Patience can pay off.

 

[sampler]

Grier doesn't have 1 more year of being in the cellar. You don't get to punt 4 years of being in the bottom of the league and keep your job in most instances. Have to show improvement and surround Macklin with winning players.

This nonsense that keeps getting pushed through here that we're going to have our entire roster filled with homegrown talent needs to stop. Nobody does it that way, and thus this idea that we need to suck another year so that we can give all of these young guys NHL time needs to stop with it.

Outside of Celebrini, Smith, Misa/Schaefer, Dickinson, Askarov, and 2026 SJ 1st rounder, nobody else is off limits as it pertains to making this team better (Eklund and Muk are close, but available in the right deal). The rest of the young players and young assets are more likely to be dealt for NHLers or never make it as an NHLer than they are to be contributors on the next Sharks playoff team. Better to move swiftly while there is still allure and value to some of these guys than to expose that they have no NHL future.

I've always been on board with your perspective. Wins. Fans want wins. GM's get paid to produce wins. Hockey players should be desperate for wins. I have been pissed to see all the garbage Grier has added over the last few years, not for cap dump, but of his own accord (lindbom, kunin, sturm, goodrow, dyllandrea, benning, burroughs, liljgren, desharnais, Kostin, Zadina, Addison... the list goes on and on and on...)...

However, the big problem is that to get talent worth adding, you have two choices:
1. Trade major futures (picks/prospects) for current NHLers. This is on the table ,but should only be done once you feel ready to "go for it". if you jump the gun on this, you waste multiple years of the newly acquired player as you climb out of the cellar. As such, this should be done when you are ready to compete for real. And the second issue, which relates to this one is...

2. You have to give term. You cannot build a winning roster with 1-2 year deals. We literally do not have a single defenseman signed past this season. Zero. And Shak is the only RFA seemingly worthy of signing past this season, but that's not at all a sure thing.

Term and $$ comes with two major advantages: you can get guys to actually come and you have certainty and roster continuity.

But it also comes with two major drawbacks: Term and $$ is hard to trade to acquire more future assets, and if you make a mistake, you are stuck with it for years. Thus, it takes guts to add term and $$ and its only worht doing once you are ready to compete and once you know the needs of your franchise.

I worry that the sharks dont know their needs and arent ready to compete yet. it pisses me off to no end that we are likely to watch another developmental year of stinking, but I Grier said he wont give term. This means, even trading for a dobson makes little sense if you arent going to extend him for 5-7 years. Grier wants to keep flexibility and he wants the ability to add more picks at the TDL next year.

I am willing to wait one more year. Even signing a small army of vets to short, overpriced deals does not mean that we will have to suck. We might be respectiable even without bringing in better names. Eiher way, Im not happy to watch losses, but I can see the value of short term vets, and the value of accumulating tons of assets for summer '26 to then push our chips to the middle.

 

[sampler]

The issue with next year is that the roster remains woefully incomplete. Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Wennberg, and toffoli are the only proven top 9 forwards. Graf, Cherny, Musty, Misa(?), Lund are still basically rookies. Asky is a rookie. Dick, cagnoni would be rookies. Mukh is still bascially a rookie.

In short, to "go for it" and add term and $$ to a team largely comprised of rookies and 2nd year players makes little sense. and to trade big futures to add top NHL talent to a team full of rookies is wrong timing.

Now, by the end of '25-26, Possibly none of those guys will be rookies, or at least many of them will have a full NHL year under their belts. Smith and Celly will have two years. At that point, the team will be stacked with 2nd-4th year players and Grier will know what he has in dick, musty, cherny, cagnoni, and the rest of the kids. Summer '26 should beging the major talent acquisition phase, and '26-27 should be a push for PO's.

of course, given Smith, Celly, Ek, Graf, and mukh's experience this year, its not crazy that the sharks could be reasonable (like not dead last) if they add a bunch of patrick kane-like vets on short term deals. They were VERY close in alot of games last year, and the natural growth of the kids coupled with a few good vets could push some of those close losses into wins. it would be nice to start seeing a further upward trajectory even without committing to term or trading futures.

 

[Hodge]

That Faber trade was not mortgaging the future? a First + top D prospect for a scoring winger who was traded right after having his best season, a season he's never topped despite still being in his prime? All while considering the Kings D core is fleeting and they're going into next season depending on an aging Doughty and Mikey Anderson as options to be #1, or Clarke, who you think stinks.

Sure looks like they could have used Faber and the 1st (yes i know there's more as to why to the Faber trade happened, but still)

He also certainly mortgaged the future with the initial PLD trade and then again on the 2nd trade

Faber was never going to sign with the Kings. Blake traded him and a late 1st for a 25 year old first liner who he then immediately locked up for his entire prime. PLD was 24 when the Kings traded for him. Acquiring stars in their prime without giving up Byfield, Clarke or any other top picks then immediately signing them to max term deals isn't mortgaging the future. It's not like he was trading these assets for rentals or old guys.

 

[Jargon]

I don’t particularly like blocking people unless they’re overtly awful and no one here is overtly awful. But it’s also a message board so, cater your experiences to whatever you want em’ to be, life’s too short and social media is too awful to constantly be in fight or flight mode.

Anyway! Back to hockey — my feeling is Granlund is very likely coming back.

 

[STL Shark]

I could be in the minority here but I don't give two hoots if we finish last overall next year.

And before I'm tagged as a fairweather fan, I have followed the Sharks since the early days of the Cow Palace.

Let the rookies grow as sophs, bring through the next batch of prospects to get their feet wet without the stakes being too high and draft near the top again next season. Doing the rebuild properly matters to me, not next year's position. While there are no guarantees, I'm perfectly happy for our improvement to be organic, because when you're desperate, that's when you overpay for FAs and make bad trades. I have enjoyed watching the Sharks this year.

Patience can pay off.

You don't build a team just with prospects. The only prospects that we should be catering development around are going to be Dickinson and Misa/Schaefer. The rest of the prospect pool that have not graduated to NHLers (i.e. Bystedt, Musty, Chernyshov, etc.) are fodder for the most part. You do what you can to help them develop in the AHL, but you're not making NHL roster decisions with them in mind.

This summer is about improving the NHL team so that next year isn't another sulk fest where our young guys are mired in a miserable year of losing. Losing breeds losing. At some point, you have to start caring about winning rather than just "BuT tHe PrOsPeCts" being the focal point of your organization forever when you already have an elite franchise cornerstone 1C in Celebrini. You suck until you get that guy, and then you start building around him.

Additionally, you need real NHL players for these prospects to beat out to prove they belong rather than just inheriting a spot because nobody else is there to take it. Only youngsters that should realistically be on the opening night roster that were not full time NHLers this year are Graf and maybe Dickinson (mostly due to not being AHL eligible). Maybe one of Musty/Chernyshov breakout in camp, but they are guys that need to dominate the AHL before earning a call up to the NHL in my mind.

From there, you need a real top pairing D-Man, a pair of top 6 forwards, and a tandem starter in net. That should get us from worst team to closer to like 8th worst team and getting better.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Granlund liked it here, and the Sharks liked him. But, he doesn't fit Mike Grier's "bigger is always better" motif. The Sharks already have a bunch of small forwards...perhaps they go for someone like Bennett or Nelson instead?

In terms of what the plan should be, you have to show forward progress. That is measured in wins/points and not draft capital. There will always be a shiny prospect who you'll want to tank for...

 

[Jargon]

Granlund liked it here, and the Sharks liked him. But, he doesn't fit Mike Grier's "bigger is always better" motif. The Sharks already have a bunch of small forwards...perhaps they go for someone like Bennett or Nelson instead?

In terms of what the plan should be, you have to show forward progress. That is measured in wins/points and not draft capital. There will always be a shiny prospect who you'll want to tank for...

Yeah, I hear you, I’m just not sure we’ll be able to get anyone much better and for now we also just need to ice a good team.

I would love Marchment, Bennett, guys like that, but having Granlund helping out Smith on the 2nd line would be very valuable.

We have such little talent that I’m not sure Grier needs to worry about playoff team building yet, right now it’s get the kids in position to not get shelled every game and start winning a little. Granlund can always be traded if Musty, Chernyshov, Misa, etc etc start taking spots but we’re not there yet.

 

[one2gamble]

its time to take a step forward in the win column. You dont need a huge step but you need to see clear progress in the win column next year, not just improved play.

 

[weastern bias]

It really doesn't matter that fans are tired of losing, this team doesn't have the expendable assets in the organization that would be needed to turn the team into respectable club over the course of one summer

The piece we'll be adding this offseason that will contribute the most to our long-term success will be whoever we draft at #2, and that player won't be in the NHL next year, we will have to spend at least 20M this summer in free agency to be cap compliant but we are one of the least attractive destinations in the league because we lose 75% of our games, none of the premier UFAs are signing here unless we offer a contract that will ruin our organizational salary structure

Funny enough, the thing that will likely help push us up the standings next year actually is tanking, as the tanking that McKenna is going to inspire at the bottom of the league is going to be shameless this year, and I don't think the Sharks will be trying to lose on purpose as hard as other teams will be in 2026

Our absolute ceiling if every possible thing goes right next year is still a bottom-10 finish, but realistically we're not going to escape the bottom-5, we don't have an available avenue to do so that doesn't actually hinder our chances to win in the long term

Just be patient, it's year two, our best player will be 19 years old all season, we're in no kind of a rush

 

[STL Shark]

Granlund liked it here, and the Sharks liked him. But, he doesn't fit Mike Grier's "bigger is always better" motif. The Sharks already have a bunch of small forwards...perhaps they go for someone like Bennett or Nelson instead?

In terms of what the plan should be, you have to show forward progress. That is measured in wins/points and not draft capital. There will always be a shiny prospect who you'll want to tank for...

Massive difference in what those players will be looking for in contract. Bennett will get term, something Granlund won't. Nelson is going back to COL or will be in MIN.

Granlund fits in that you can sign him for 3 years and he'd be good with that. That's where the difference lies and why he is more likely than the others mentioned.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I will ignore people who argue in bad faith. @Hodge has sometimes acknowledged when he is wrong, can concede a good point (if reluctantly), and generally makes good-faith interpretations of other posts.

When I had a "controversial" avatar earlier this year, some people sent nasty messages to me. I did ignore those people since bigots, racists, homophobes, anti-semites, etc. are working with broken equipment.

This is cope as it relates to Hodge. lol

 

[TheBeard]

I will ignore people who argue in bad faith. @Hodge has sometimes acknowledged when he is wrong, can concede a good point (if reluctantly), and generally makes good-faith interpretations of other posts.

I must have missed those rare concessions.