Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[vortexx]

Any thoughts/interest in Issac Howard? This pretty much sounds like it confirms he will be traded...

 

[TheBeard]

Mike Grier flipped the depressed assets of Erik Karlsson and Timo Meier into 3 1st round picks and a 2nd which was re-invested into the best D prospect in the organization

Well, better push him aside to hire a guy who is maligned by his own fanbase and has never won a playoff round after inheriting multiple future hall of famers and decided to compete instead of rebuild, I bet that would go great

In all fairness, EK65 never would have returned a thing if he didn’t have an historically incredible season leading to a Norris. Give Erik at least a little credit for giving himself value again even if we knew it was fool’s gold.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Any thoughts/interest in Issac Howard? This pretty much sounds like it confirms he will be traded...

I've never really liked him much and don't think I'd give up the assets to land him.

 

[Hodge]

Any thoughts/interest in Issac Howard? This pretty much sounds like it confirms he will be traded...

I'd give up a 2nd for him if he's guaranteed to sign with us. Warsofsky and Smith need to do some tampering at the World Championships.

 

[ThePlanet]

In all fairness, EK65 never would have returned a thing if he didn’t have an historically incredible season leading to a Norris. Give Erik at least a little credit for giving himself value again even if we knew it was fool’s gold.

From this point forward, I shall use the nickname "Pyrite" when I refer to Karlsson.

 

[Lebanezer]

You haven't made the argument because pretending Yzerman had nothing to do with the back to back championships Tampa won immediately after he resigned and was replaced by his protege is not a real argument.

I don’t have to make the argument. You talk in absolutes, one can easily make an argument for Yzerman being a poor GM. It’s fine that you disagree, but you should at least be receptive or aware enough of his history to find the nuances in his evaluation.

 

[vortexx]

Warsofsky and Smith need to do some tampering at the World Championships.

I was thinking the same thing haha

 

[TheBeard]

I don’t have to make the argument. You talk in absolutes, one can easily make an argument for Yzerman being a poor GM. It’s fine that you disagree, but you should at least be receptive or aware enough of his history to find the nuances in his evaluation.

Literally my whole original point before Hodge went off on his rants was that Yzerman has made some questionable managerial decisions.

 

[Hodge]

I was thinking the same thing haha

We can guarantee him a spot on our 2nd line considering he'd probably be the 2nd best LW in the org behind Eklund who's signed for next season. Depends on whether he's looking for the biggest opportunity or a specific team.

 

[weastern bias]

In all fairness, EK65 never would have returned a thing if he didn’t have an historically incredible season leading to a Norris. Give Erik at least a little credit for giving himself value again even if we knew it was fool’s gold.

I'm not taking anything away from Karlsson's 2023 season here, I was talking more about the idea of bringing in Blake to oversee Grier even though we've already seen Grier deftly maneuver through some very difficult situations and come out with great value in the end, something Rob Blake can't say for himself after spending more than twice the amount of time working the same job

Karlsson definitely proved he can (or at least could, he's getting older) be an elite offensive engine at 5-on-5, if and when he's afforded the ability to completely abandon any pretense of a defensive conscience, I just don't think that environment exists in a winning context

 

[LinkGaetz23]

When Gavrikov walks in UFA and Kopitar declines, which may well be as soon as literally next year, the Kings will lose their two best players. According to you yourself, Clarke is a worthless offenseman, so why are the Canucks taking him as the main piece for Petterson? Turcotte is beyond worthless, an undersized and injury-prone 24 year old forward with 29 career NHL points to his name. As always, your praise of Blake is that he has the "flexibility" to, what, sign a bunch of free agents? His "tradable assets" include literally one single half-decent prospect in Greentree, who is just Musty with a different coat of paint. There is quite literally nothing worthwhile in that whole organization outside of Byfield and Kempe, and Byfield still can't seem to decide if he wants to be a bust or a superstar.

I would be one million dollars that the Kings do not make the WCF in the next three years.

Then quit talking and let's bet. It's pretty obvious while Kopitar is the captain and still getting top line minutes that he's already declined. Kopitar and Doughty might be the names casual fans recognize, but it's everyone else who is driving their relative success.

 

[Star Platinum]

For the record I never said I would hire Blake as POHO. Just wanted to see what everyone else thought about it.

Well, now you know

 

[weastern bias]

it's everyone else who is driving their relative success.

What success?

Making the playoffs in the terrible pacific division and never once winning a round once getting there?

I'd prefer finishing dead last, it's literally more productive

 

[Jargon]

Then quit talking and let's bet. It's pretty obvious while Kopitar is the captain and still getting top line minutes that he's already declined. Kopitar and Doughty might be the names casual fans recognize, but it's everyone else who is driving their relative success.

I feel like you might have a gambling addiction.

 

[LinkGaetz23]

What success?

Making the playoffs in the terrible pacific division and never once winning a round once getting there?

I'd prefer finishing dead last, it's literally more productive

That's why I said relative.

 

[LinkGaetz23]

I feel like you might have a gambling addiction.

Confident enough in my opinions and math to bet money on them, unlike some blowhards here.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Then quit talking and let's bet. It's pretty obvious while Kopitar is the captain and still getting top line minutes that he's already declined. Kopitar and Doughty might be the names casual fans recognize, but it's everyone else who is driving their relative success.

What is your obsession with multi-year bets with me, a stranger on the internet? I'm starting to think that's the only reason you joined HF.

Kopitar was their second leading scorer and defensive backbone. He's averaged 71 points per 82 games over the last six seasons with almost flat PPG paces through all of those seasons and scored 67 points in 81 games this year. He absolutely has not hit his decline yet. I'm talking about the Joe Thornton PPG to barely 50 points sudden decline. Doughty isn't great anymore, I know that, but Kopitar still is and he's still their best player. Their next best player in Kempe might simply walk in UFA next season. I like Byfield, but I'm less convinced that he'll ever figure it out. I really like Anderson, but without Gavrikov I don't think he'll be nearly as effective. Laferriere is a player, but he's 23 and was outscored by 19 year old Will Smith on a much worse team. There's also the matter of Darcy Keumper, whom I have no faith in to repeat his excellent performance this season regularly.

Between late-stage Kopitar, Byfield, Kempe, Fiala (one-way soft winger, but talented), Laferriere, Clarke, late-stage Doughty, and Anderson, there's enough to stay out of the basement, and maybe to make the playoffs consistently. But winning a round? Especially since they're probably doomed to keep playing McDavid in the first round for the foreseeable future? I simply don't see it. If they manage to hang on to Gavrikov, that improves their odds, but I don't get who they're signing in UFA to make a meaningful difference to what they already have, and other than Greentree and picks all of their valuable assets are already meaningful contributors on the NHL roster and most of them aren't really poised to make huge improvements in the next couple years.

I don't bet, I quite literally have never gambled in my life outside of $40 my buddy gave me after I won him a bunch of money throwing dice at a craps table, and have no real interest in it. But I'll put up money on this one. LA being a top-2 team in the West in the next three years with Vegas, Edmonton, Dallas, and Colorado kicking around? Easy money.

 

[weastern bias]

That's why I said relative.

What is it a "success" relative to?

The only success I think can be argued they've achieved is that it's better to make the playoffs than to be just outside the bracket, so they're doing better than all of the 9th/10th/11th seeds in their conference, but every team that actually wins playoff rounds and every team that actually accrued top-5 draft picks has actually done more to advance their franchise more than LA has, so half the league has been more succes than the Kings have during Blake's tenure

 

[spintops]

I'd give up a 2nd for him if he's guaranteed to sign with us. Warsofsky and Smith need to do some tampering at the World Championships.

Do you know how tall the is?

 

[Hodge]

Do you know how tall the is?

We would need to follow it up by trading Eklund for a defenseman.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If Drake Batherson were available, I would be intrigued.

 

[ThePlanet]

We would need to follow it up by trading Eklund for a defenseman.

I'm going to take that as a "No," then prefacing it to save face

 

[Timo Time]

The Kings relative success? Are we talking about the same Kings team who have won exactly zero playoff rounds since the last time we won a playoff series? THOSE Kings??

 

[OrrNumber4]

I still wonder how bad a person/employee Dean Lombardi must be to not have a job. Two championships, a history of excellent contracts and trades, and yet no takers? Not to mention that his leash in LA was fairly short.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If Grier follows the Detroit Yzerman trajectory and has us in 90 point playoff bubble range by Year 5 (which would be 2026-27) I think that would be a terrific outcome. Don't you? Our ceiling is higher because we have Mack and they don't but it's difficult to criticize Yzerman too harshly for failing to win a draft lottery.

Anyway the argument was never that the Sharks should emulate Detroit, just that Yzerman isn't a complete dumbass who traded Walman for no reason. Blake has taken the Kings from a graveyard of albatross contracts to a perennial playoff team without a single bad long term contract on the books. Every team situation is different and you have to evaluate managers in light of their constraints.

And that argument as it relates to Yzerman is a strawman. Because no matter how you look at it, he paid to get rid of a guy that ended up having value in the next trade he was involved in. He doesn't have to be a dumbass to make a mistake. He can have any reason to support doing that move and still be wrong to do so in some capacity.