Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

I do see Ostapchuk as a quality bottom 6 defensive center.

Honest question. What did you see on the ice or have heard that gives you this feeling?

 

[TheBeard]

I'm not certain I'd keep any of Ferraro, Liljigren, or Wenny at the deadline. I see arguments for keeping all of them, but not necessary to do so. Ferraro's age and leadership, Liljigren age and rarity of RHD, Wenny offers center depth. None are irreplacable, but may be better holding on to he devil we know, especially if it's cheaper than UFA frenzy. If we plucked a guy like Beniers (not realistic, just ideal fit) or Dobson as a long-term solution, than obviously easier to move them on.

Ferraro, as I've said before, seems like his value would be higher with us considering where our D-corp stands than whatever the return is, not to mention if he re-signs it would probably be cheaper than any equivalent in the FA market. Wennberg and Liljigren are both gone after this season as I can see both chasing a chance to win.

 

[TheBeard]

Depends on the price

The price is already too much and his bloated AAV is going to overlap when we have to start paying Will, Macklin, Eklund and whomever else makes the cut up front. I don't want to be Toronto West where we're paying 4 forwards 50% of the cap.

 

[matt trick]

Honest question. What did you see on the ice or have heard that gives you this feeling?

Aside from the fact that anyone who plays 130 minutes stapled to Goodrow and only has a -1 should earn a medal? I kid.

His ability to track back in the neutral zone after Goodrow turns it over, and willingness and ability to win pucks along the boards. He’s also 21, 6’4 (big guys often develop slower), and I think his size, speed, physicality, and reach will make him an effective penalty killer. He also won 49% of his draws with Ottawa so I think he’ll ultimately be good there. Look at Smith’s rookie numbers (albeit a 18 months younger).

I don’t think the offensive ability is there for a 3rd line center, but I do think he can be an absolute menace as a fourth line center. He needs to get better, but he’s the type of guy who I think can anchor a 4th line, and maybe give certain middle six scoring lines trouble, allowing Smith to feast on a third or fourth line, while Celebrini will be the type of beat 1st lines head to head.

Ottawa fans were also quite high on his ability thinking he could be a Nick Paul type. Maybe he’ll bust, but he was thrown into a new (shitty, and constantly shelled) team and new system, coming from the AHL as a 21 year old. I also like that we’ll have a guy who will be able play a regular shift who can throw with the heavyweights.

An important note, I like this type of player. I may be seeing what I want to see.

 

[TheBeard]

Aside from the fact that anyone who plays 130 minutes stapled to Goodrow and only has a -1 should earn a medal? I kid.

His ability to track back in the neutral zone after Goodrow turns it over, and willingness and ability to win pucks along the boards. He’s also 21, 6’4 (big guys often develop slower), and I think his size, speed, physicality, and reach will make him an effective penalty killer. He also won 49% of his draws with Ottawa so I think he’ll ultimately be good there. Look at Smith’s rookie numbers (albeit a 18 months younger).

I don’t think the offensive ability is there for a 3rd line center, but I do think he can be an absolute menace as a fourth line center. He needs to get better, but he’s the type of guy who I think can anchor a 4th line, and maybe give certain middle six scoring lines trouble, allowing Smith to feast on a third or fourth line, while Celebrini will be the type of beat 1st lines head to head.

Ottawa fans were also quite high on his ability thinking he could be a Nick Paul type. Maybe he’ll bust, but he was thrown into a new (shitty, and constantly shelled) team and new system, coming from the AHL as a 21 year old. I also like that we’ll have a guy who will be able play a regular shift who can throw with the heavyweights.

An important note, I like this type of player. I may be seeing what I want to see.

Thanks. I didn't see much of the physicality when he came over, but considering his size I'm hoping he does learn to use his frame for the right reasons.

 

[sampler]

He said he’s going to start building up this summer but don’t expect anywhere near a playoff team. I imagine next summer/next year is our first step forward. Hopefully he manages to bring in some offense and revamp the D a bit, but we’re still waiting on most of our prospects to grow. It’ll also be Askarov’s first year in the NHL, so, it’s still a very young, very raw team.

But that’s okay, I think a step forward is great, I think the year after will be 2-3 steps forward, particularly if some guys start hitting next year.

he did say he'd start building this summer. Hence my expectations that he... well.... starts building. I do not count drafting as "building" though. draft picks are assets gifted to teams each year and high picks are gifted to losers. I count adding future core players from outside as building. I also see the D as the place that needs building since, as I mentioned earlier, the D is dreadfully thin, both now, and largely in the future too as Dick is the only blue chip prospect (mukh may be a regular NHler and at best be middle pair, while others are also big question marks).

I do not expect playoffs. I mean, we have 5 or 6 forwards that surely belong in the NHL on the current roster. We also have like 1 or 2 D that surely belong in the NHL too. thats about 10 roster spots that need serious upgrades. I do not realitically expect grier to add 8 legit NHL players this offseason. That's ridiculous. But, if he adds zero, then I would be sorely disgusted ,and it would make adding an army next summer practically impossible. You cannot build half a roster in a summer, so if he wants to compete is '26-27, he needs to start adding a few key pieces (espcially on D) this summer.

then, we can still suck, but the numer of holes get fewer. The key start coming into the NHL and taking bigger roles. We add one more superstar in '26 draft, and a few big moves in summer '26, and we're a competitive team.

Say you need 9F, 4D, and 1G to be a PO team (assume 4th line, bottom pair and backup goalie are UFA replacable level).

At forward: Smith, Celly, and eklund are the only bona fide, proven, long term top 9F. So we need 6 more F's. It's fair to assume 2-3 of the current in house kids (Cherny, Musty, Halts, Lund, Graf, Cardwell, Bystedt, Ostapchuk, Wetsch...) will graduate to fill those roles. That leaves approximately 3-4 external top 9 NHL forwards to be acquired over the next year (this summer+next summer) to have a full NHL quality top 9.

On D: They have ZERO bona fide top 4 NHL D right now. None. and no one particuarly borderline (ferraro is the best current nhl D and he is borderline middle pair at best and not likely in the long term plans anyways). Dick and Mukh are the only two in house who most on these boards see as possible top 4 NHLers longer term. That means we need a minimum of 2-3 D to be acquired over the next year.

on G: askarov should be the one, and well know more soon, but it looks promising.

So, that means we need to add approximate 7 impact players over the next year. Fair to assume two of those will be a '25 and '26 top 5 picks (assuming we stink again).

So, that means grier needs to add 5 impact bona fide NHLers this summer and next through UFA or trade. if he adds only bottom feeders and 1-2 year older vets and nothing else, the same needs remain. If he adds, say, 2 long term guys, especially a top 4D, then that lessens the shopping list for next summer down to maybe 3 bona fide NHLers while holding 60+M in cap space. Very very attainable. obviously the UFA and RFA crops change dynamically, so its hard to predict, but most years there area 1-3 marquis names (marner this year) and 8-10 secondary quality names (provorov, ekblad, bennett, boeser, etc). Right now, McDavid, Makar, Eichel, Kaprizov, Kyle Connor, Kempe, etc are at the top, though it seems fairly unlikely any of them hit the market as they all play for solid attractive squads, but you never know. if grier can fill in a few holes this summer, he should be ready to complete the rebuild next summer. I will have low expectations for wins this year, but I do wan to see some long term pieces get put into place.

 

[Hodge]

Aside from the fact that anyone who plays 130 minutes stapled to Goodrow and only has a -1 should earn a medal? I kid.

His ability to track back in the neutral zone after Goodrow turns it over, and willingness and ability to win pucks along the boards. He’s also 21, 6’4 (big guys often develop slower), and I think his size, speed, physicality, and reach will make him an effective penalty killer. He also won 49% of his draws with Ottawa so I think he’ll ultimately be good there. Look at Smith’s rookie numbers (albeit a 18 months younger).

I don’t think the offensive ability is there for a 3rd line center, but I do think he can be an absolute menace as a fourth line center. He needs to get better, but he’s the type of guy who I think can anchor a 4th line, and maybe give certain middle six scoring lines trouble, allowing Smith to feast on a third or fourth line, while Celebrini will be the type of beat 1st lines head to head.

Ottawa fans were also quite high on his ability thinking he could be a Nick Paul type. Maybe he’ll bust, but he was thrown into a new (shitty, and constantly shelled) team and new system, coming from the AHL as a 21 year old. I also like that we’ll have a guy who will be able play a regular shift who can throw with the heavyweights.

An important note, I like this type of player. I may be seeing what I want to see.

No, you saw things objectively. It's others on here who will never get over the Zetterlund trade (even though he's been absolutely worthless in Ottawa) and irrationally hate Ostapchuk for that reason.

 

[matt trick]

No, you saw things objectively. It's others on here who will never get over the Zetterlund trade (even though he's been absolutely worthless in Ottawa) and irrationally hate Ostapchuk for that reason.

Thanks @Hodge that does confirm it, I am seeing what I want to see. I too have become a size queen…

Just messing with you!

 

[Lebanezer]

No, you saw things objectively. It's others on here who will never get over the Zetterlund trade (even though he's been absolutely worthless in Ottawa) and irrationally hate Ostapchuk for that reason.

The irony in this post is not lost.

 

[TheBeard]

Thanks @Hodge that does confirm it, I am seeing what I want to see. I too have become a size queen…

Just messing with you!

Me: What stood out to you in his game?

Hodge: YOU’RE OBSESSED WITH ZETTERLUND. GET OVER IT ROAAAAAR!!!

Hodge is a double standard queen. Osta produces nothing on the stat sheet but gets praised endlessly for what he does on the ice. Zetterlund also struggled to produce but has been widely perceived as one of the better forwards on Ottawa these playoffs yet to Hodge it’s solely his production that matters. This is what happens when you have a narrative and an ego.

 

[Hodge]

Me: What stood out to you in his game?

Hodge: YOU’RE OBSESSED WITH ZETTERLUND. GET OVER IT ROAAAAAR!!!

Hodge is a double standard queen. Osta produces nothing on the stat sheet but gets praised endlessly for what he does on the ice. Zetterlund also struggled to produce but has been widely perceived as one of the better forwards on Ottawa these playoffs yet to Hodge it’s solely his production that matters. This is what happens when you have a narrative and an ego.

I'm sorry your boyfriend Zetterlund has been exposed as a fraud. I know you were very emotional about losing him but that doesn't make a guy with 5 points in 24 games who doesn't forecheck, win puck battles, kill penalties, take faceoffs or make plays "one of the better forwards on Ottawa."

 

[TheBeard]

I'm sorry your boyfriend Zetterlund has been exposed as a fraud. I know you were very emotional about losing him but that doesn't make a guy with 5 points in 24 games who doesn't forecheck, win puck battles, kill penalties, take faceoffs or make plays "one of the better forwards on Ottawa."

I’d bet my life savings you’ve watched about 5 minutes of that Toronto Ottawa series. Also, I never even brought up Zetterlund. I merely asked what he saw in Osta’s game. Sounds like there’s only one person obsessed.

 

[Hodge]

I’d bet my life savings you’ve watched about 5 minutes of that Toronto Ottawa series. Also, I never even brought up Zetterlund. I merely asked what he saw in Osta’s game. Sounds like there’s only one person obsessed.

I've watched enough to know it's laughable to suggest he's been one of their best forwards. You're spending too much time reading twitter accounts called like Sens Cope and Steve Staios For Prime Minister again.

 

[Juxtaposer]

As I said the day of the trade, it's a fool's errand to judge Ostapchuk right now. Zetterlund literally looked like hot garbage his first partial season with the Sharks to the point that people around here were wondering if we should even qualify him. Ostapchuk is younger, bigger, and has better pedigree, plus he's already a penalty killer. I get not liking the trade, but it's absurd to be crying about it at this point until we see what Ostapchuk actually is.

Furthermore, I've changed my tune on the value of Ottawa's 2nd somewhat. A lot of the guys I was thinking about at 33 kinda feel like reaches that would be more appropriate in the 50's. So Grier can use 33 in a trade (or trade down with it) and still grab one of the RHD types with the Ottawa 2nd without missing on a huge chunk of the draft.

 

[matt trick]

I'm sorry your boyfriend Zetterlund has been exposed as a fraud. I know you were very emotional about losing him but that doesn't make a guy with 5 points in 24 games who doesn't forecheck, win puck battles, kill penalties, take faceoffs or make plays "one of the better forwards on Ottawa."

I’m one of the ones who finds you amusing, but I think you’re better than this. Buston and Demibust are better than this…this is just lame.

 

[Hodge]

I’m one of the ones who finds you amusing, but I think you’re better than this. Buston and Demibust are better than this…this is just lame.

What could possibly have given you the impression that I'm better than this? Anyway @TheBeard and everyone else who melted down over the Zetterlund trade deserves to have his pathetic performance in Ottawa shoved in their faces at every opportunity.

 

[OrrNumber4]

16 playoffs teams per season, so as the 17th best, he would basically be a #1 on any of the playoff teams while you argue he's not even a top line player.

That's not how numbers work.

 

[matt trick]

As I said the day of the trade, it's a fool's errand to judge Ostapchuk right now. Zetterlund literally looked like hot garbage his first partial season with the Sharks to the point that people around here were wondering if we should even qualify him. Ostapchuk is younger, bigger, and has better pedigree, plus he's already a penalty killer. I get not liking the trade, but it's absurd to be crying about it at this point until we see what Ostapchuk actually is.

Furthermore, I've changed my tune on the value of Ottawa's 2nd somewhat. A lot of the guys I was thinking about at 33 kinda feel like reaches that would be more appropriate in the 50's. So Grier can use 33 in a trade (or trade down with it) and still grab one of the RHD types with the Ottawa 2nd without missing on a huge chunk of the draft.

I’m sure this happens every year as we approach the draft, but I do think the draft is deeper (or more appropriately, less shallow) than originally thought.

There’s a lot of hulking forwards that are being talked up in later half of the year that weren’t discussed previously. Zonnon, Nestrasil, Gard, West, Prokhorov, Wozniak, Vansaghi, Moore, Behm, and Horcoff are 6’2+ middle six guys. For RHD, Mrtka and Hensler are a major step ahead, but Fiddler, Amico, Tretheway, Psneicka, and London’s RHD could all be displace Pohlkamp as our best RHD available between 24-50.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I’m sure this happens every year as we approach the draft, but I do think the draft is deeper (or more appropriately, less shallow) than originally thought.

There’s a lot of hulking forwards that are being talked up in later half of the year that weren’t discussed previously. Zonnon, Nestrasil, Gard, West, Prokhorov, Wozniak, Vansaghi, Moore, Behm, and Horcoff are 6’2+ middle six guys. For RHD, Mrtka and Hensler are a major step ahead, but Fiddler, Amico, Tretheway, Psneicka, and London’s RHD could all be displace Pohlkamp as our best RHD available between 24-50.

I wouldn't say the draft is deeper than I thought, but rather the tier between 20 and 60 is a bit flat. The 33rd best guy in the draft isn't going to be someone I'm comfortable spending a 33rd overall pick on.

33 is usually a great pick to have, since someone always falls out of the first round that should have gone way earlier, and that way you can scoop that guy up (like Chernyshov last year). So I wouldn't trade the pick until after the conclusion of the first round, so you know who you're going to be able to take. Of your list, Zonnon and Nestrasil are the two guys I'm most interested in at 33, particularly Zonnon. "Grier takes a big high upside winger with skating issues in the 25-40 range" is basically a meme at this point, so I bet those guys are high on his list. Ihs-Wozniak and Vansaghi are also interesting, but wouldn't be my favorites at 33.

The Ottawa 2nd (probably #52) seems like the right range for guys like Trethewey and Amico. I haven't watched every minute of the U18's but IMO Trethewey's stock is going up a little and Fiddler's not helping himself out. He might even be in the Dallas 1st range now...

 

[spintheblackcircle]

That's not how numbers work.

Moot point, he's not going to San Jose.

I kinda hope he goes full heel-turn and signs in Montreal.

 

[sampler]

I have seen nothing promising about Ostapchuk. he fights. yep. hes physical. and hes young. But, I didnt see a whole lot else. I was excited to see the guy Grier loves so much come to play, so it's not some kind of bias due to losing zetts. Frankly, I thought Giles looked better when he came than Osty. That said, as mentioned earlier, zetterlund looked like a fat zero when he first came, not too different than he looks now in Ottawa. As such, I agree that you cannot close the book on ostapchuk until after next season at the earliest.

However, there is a part of that trade that is getting very overlooked in this discussion. The locker room. Zetterlund and Eklund were total besties, like the slightly less skilled Wacklin Smithebrini with Uncle Tyler. Those personal relationships and locker room dynamics really matter for weathering the storms and adversities of an NHL season. When you are playing on a team with your best friends, a losing streak won't destroy your room and the joy of winning is multiplied. But, when you are just teammates, its far more tenuous. Zetterlund was also arguably the most physical guy at 220lbs who could bench an elephant. He wasn't tall, but he was the strongest guy on the team.

I think trading him really hurt the room, hurt the physicality of the team (ostapchuk fights but zetterlund hits), and of course took 20+ goals off the roster.

I think zetts is the kind of player that takes time to adjust to a system and a team, and a coach who can utilize him well. I think this trade was a big goof both on and off the ice, and I think zetterlund is a perfectly fine top 9 forward to have on a playoff team who fit in very nicely with this group.

(maybe the issue was that zetterlund's production threatened our last place standing, so grier had to trade him to ensure we could suck the rest of this year and next. God forbid we keep a good player above 22 years old.)

 

[Hodge]

I have seen nothing promising about Ostapchuk. he fights. yep. hes physical. and hes young. But, I didnt see a whole lot else. I was excited to see the guy Grier loves so much come to play, so it's not some kind of bias due to losing zetts. Frankly, I thought Giles looked better when he came than Osty. That said, as mentioned earlier, zetterlund looked like a fat zero when he first came, not too different than he looks now in Ottawa. As such, I agree that you cannot close the book on ostapchuk until after next season at the earliest.

However, there is a part of that trade that is getting very overlooked in this discussion. The locker room. Zetterlund and Eklund were total besties, like the slightly less skilled Wacklin Smithebrini with Uncle Tyler. Those personal relationships and locker room dynamics really matter for weathering the storms and adversities of an NHL season. When you are playing on a team with your best friends, a losing streak won't destroy your room and the joy of winning is multiplied. But, when you are just teammates, its far more tenuous. Zetterlund was also arguably the most physical guy at 220lbs who could bench an elephant. He wasn't tall, but he was the strongest guy on the team.

I think trading him really hurt the room, hurt the physicality of the team (ostapchuk fights but zetterlund hits), and of course took 20+ goals off the roster.

I think zetts is the kind of player that takes time to adjust to a system and a team, and a coach who can utilize him well. I think this trade was a big goof both on and off the ice, and I think zetterlund is a perfectly fine top 9 forward to have on a playoff team who fit in very nicely with this group.

(maybe the issue was that zetterlund's production threatened our last place standing, so grier had to trade him to ensure we could suck the rest of this year and next. God forbid we keep a good player above 22 years old.)

It's pretty simple. Zetterlund is not worth the contract he was asking for which has been confirmed by his atrocious showing in Ottawa.

Remember that loser Andreas Athanasiou who put up 20+ goal seasons on rebuilding Detroit and LA teams? Zetterlund was just our version of him. At the end of the day, somebody has to score even on the worst teams in the league. That doesn't make Zetterlund a good player.

As for overpaying to keep a player just because he's friends with some guy on the team, that's an insane way to run a business.

 

[sampler]

I’m sure this happens every year as we approach the draft, but I do think the draft is deeper (or more appropriately, less shallow) than originally thought.

There’s a lot of hulking forwards that are being talked up in later half of the year that weren’t discussed previously. Zonnon, Nestrasil, Gard, West, Prokhorov, Wozniak, Vansaghi, Moore, Behm, and Horcoff are 6’2+ middle six guys. For RHD, Mrtka and Hensler are a major step ahead, but Fiddler, Amico, Tretheway, Psneicka, and London’s RHD could all be displace Pohlkamp as our best RHD available between 24-50.

I think you sell pohlkamp short. Im a huge fan of his, and I think he will surprise a lot of people. He was stellar in denver, right there alongside buium. Possibly even better defensively and pretty physical. Granted he is two years older, but still... He also stole the show in the prospect game, which granted, means little, but still...

I think Pohlkamp is a future NHLer. I figure he'll go back to denver for his junior year, but I would not be at all surprised to see him in teal in '26-27 or '27-28 with an AHL year under his belt.

I think there are some reasonable guys available with #28, 33, and 52, but personally, I would rather either ensure we get schaefer (if we lose the lottery) or trade those picks in a package to add an established top 4D. The odds those picks hit are relatively low compared to the obvious current/future needs of the team. Add in the '26 Edm 1st and Col 2nd, as well as the likelihood of even more picks coming at the TDL next year, and there is a small treasure trove of extra fodder to play with because of the blackwood, zetterlund, granny, and walman deals. Seems the '26 draft is deeper, although that means another year of waiting for development.

p.s.: I Like "london's RHD".... didnt even attempt that name, did yah ;-)?

 

[TheBeard]

I've watched enough to know it's laughable to suggest he's been one of their best forwards. You're spending too much time reading twitter accounts called like Sens Cope and Steve Staios For Prime Minister again.

So I should take your opinion over the accounts that follow the team who have no ulterior motives? You saying they're not credible? @Kcoyote3 and @Sheng Peng, this is what Hodge thinks of you guys.

 

[sampler]

It's pretty simple. Zetterlund is not worth the contract he was asking for which has been confirmed by his atrocious showing in Ottawa.

Remember that loser Andreas Athanasiou who put up 20+ goal seasons on rebuilding Detroit and LA teams? Zetterlund was just our version of him. At the end of the day, somebody has to score even on the worst teams in the league. That doesn't make Zetterlund a good player.

As for overpaying to keep a player just because he's friends with some guy on the team, that's an insane way to run a business.

1. Andreas Athanasiou? nice reference... he neeted two second rounders when he was dealt .But, yeah, I get it.
2. Do we know what he was asking for in terms of $$$ and term? What is a good amount for him in your eyes. A bag of pucks?
3. Of course, you dont keep guys because of friendships alone. But, character and friendships do matter. Chemistry and fit matter. Locker room dynamics are important, and Eklund's game did markedly dip after zetterlund left.

I find it interesting how down on zetterlund you are? You really see him as a borderline NHLer and garbage? I see him as the only plus player on the whole team and a top 3 goal scorer who takes time to adjust to new teams.