Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

I'd keep Mukhamadullin on the right, and Ferraro-Mukhamadullin is your second pairing for the next few years. Pair Schaefer with a bona fide top-4 RHD, and then place the prospect who's in flavour (Dickinson, Pohlkamp, Cagnoni, Sahlin-Wallenius, etc.) with a veteran (Desharnais for 2026...).
I'm highly troubled by the suggestion that Vincent Desharnais will not only still be with the Sharks next season, but also the season after!
 
I’d take any young RHD who projects as a quality defensive dman who can skate. Willander is average size, but he’s one of the better defensive RHD prospects. I prefer him to guys like Emery, Fiddler, Danford, Luneau. Someone like Willander, Bonk, or Salmosson would be a really nice chip to add to our farm. He’s left handed but Grier apparently targeted Bischel from Dallas. He’s one of the premier defensive d prospects.

I agree with Orr that you can only have so many young dmen. I’d say rostering four: Dickinson, Muk, a top pick (Schaefer, Verhoeff, Lin) and a trade (Willander) I think is the max. Even then, the only reason you can have four is because they have a diverse collection of skill sets, a good amount of size, and excellent skating.

This also doesn’t mean Cagnoni, Wallenius, and Pohlkamp couldn’t make the team, but it’s probably in depth roles. Given Wallenius is 19 and Cagnoni and Pohlkamp are fourth round picks, I don’t think we’re need to have them in the roster for 3+ years. That’s a decent amount of dev time. Of Pohlkamp can take Willander’s spot great.

One other thing that’s probably worth thinking about even though it’s years out. There will likely be an expansion draft in a few years, maybe two. Ideally you have 3 excellent dmen, and three above average and/or a stable of prospects who can step in. The weakest of Muk, Willander, Dickinson, and Schaefer/Verhoeff/Lin is likely exposed and picked.

That’s years out, but if we got Schaefer and say moved for Dobson (or Muk developed into an excellent top 4 dman), those two and Dickinson would be our 3 protected dmen. With Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Cherny, and a high pick in 26 (not to mention other major additions), it’s hard to imagine the sharks going the 8 skaters route.
 
I'm not afraid of starting all young dmen. These guys are not the same as the athletes 15 years ago. You need to make sure they have vet support but I think you should just go with it if that's your best 6.
 
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A defensive group that had Schaefer, Mukhamadullin, Dickinson, and Willander means no other defensive prospect can make the team for a few years.
Sign me up for that, assuming they all pan out. Who cares about prospects when you have four 1st rounders on your blueline?

I don't think we have what it takes to land Willander. Canucks are looking for a top six center this offseason and he's their only attractive chip.
 
Sign me up for that, assuming they all pan out. Who cares about prospects when you have four 1st rounders on your blueline?

I don't think we have what it takes to land Willander. Canucks are looking for a top six center this offseason and he's their only attractive chip.

Totally agree, who cares about whether prospects can make the team if our top 4 is already filled with great prospects.....

If we find that we have another prospect good enough to deserve a spot but that is blocked, wonderful we can use that prospect or one already on the team to use as trade bait for another need elsewhere
 
I'm not afraid of starting all young dmen. These guys are not the same as the athletes 15 years ago. You need to make sure they have vet support but I think you should just go with it if that's your best 6.
I'm expecting a lot of movement on the blue line over the course of next season. Muk needs experience. Our 3rd pairing should have someone on it getting experience as an NHL rookie. We have three guys that have a reasonable chance of being a rental by the deadline. If we're lucky enough to draft Schaefer, we may have two guys joining the team at the tail end of the season from college between Schaefer and Pohlkamp (if he's deciding to go back for another year). I really hope that Cagnoni has a good offseason and things work out well enough to where he establishes himself as an NHL'er. A guy like him even just being a 3rd pairing guy that can be a PP specialist would help the team develop without really getting in anyone's way since he can move to the right side too.
 
On goalies, not much optimism that we'll get Allen. Philly, Columbus, and Buffalo can offer him starting minutes without Askarov breathing down his neck. Edmonton or Carolina also are constantly looking (and not finding!) another goalie. It's possible we can get him, but don't think it's terribly likely. Who'd willingly play in front of this defense! Vladar, Rittich and Andersen are the other 'top' free agents.

Gibson (will waive for a contender) seems likely to move. Guys on contracts who may be cap dumps are Demko (1x$5 year), Broissoit (1x$3.3), Merzlikins (2x$5.4), and Grubauer (2x$5.65). If the goalie trust thought we could fix one of the later two, I'd be willing to get paid to take them (for a decent sum), the former both would be good options if their teams want to clear cap/roster space (to have Soderblom and Svilovs backup).
 
Sign me up for that, assuming they all pan out. Who cares about prospects when you have four 1st rounders on your blueline?

I don't think we have what it takes to land Willander. Canucks are looking for a top six center this offseason and he's their only attractive chip.

I agree. That said, we've seen young college players get moved under value a few times. His agent comments to the media may mean he's at risk to do his four years and become UFA since this will be his third year.

If not signed after his Jr. Year at BU, Vancouver will be staring down the option to play his 4th year and choose his spot. SJ would likely be quite confident of signing him (we don't care about bonuses, he's friends with Mack, and he'd probably be on our 2nd pair immediately.

I trust Vancouver should be able to get this done, but everything they touch turns to shit.
 
On goalies, not much optimism that we'll get Allen. Philly, Columbus, and Buffalo can offer him starting minutes without Askarov breathing down his neck. Edmonton or Carolina also are constantly looking (and not finding!) another goalie. It's possible we can get him, but don't think it's terribly likely. Who'd willingly play in front of this defense! Vladar, Rittich and Andersen are the other 'top' free agents.

Gibson (will waive for a contender) seems likely to move. Guys on contracts who may be cap dumps are Demko (1x$5 year), Broissoit (1x$3.3), Merzlikins (2x$5.4), and Grubauer (2x$5.65). If the goalie trust thought we could fix one of the later two, I'd be willing to get paid to take them (for a decent sum), the former both would be good options if their teams want to clear cap/roster space (to have Soderblom and Svilovs backup).
If a goalie like Merzlikins or Jarry or Grubauer doesn't have the Sharks on their no-trade lists and that team was willing to take back Goodrow, I'd be willing to make that sort of deal. Otherwise, I'd maybe see if Ilya Samsonov wants to sign here or if the Islanders were willing to move Varlamov. I'd like to give Askarov a partner that can be here for a couple seasons while he's developing into the starter.
 
Cagnoni, LSW and Landen aren’t serious prospects regardless of what the front office says about them. You’re ecstatic if any of them make it to 100 NHL games and it’ll be on the third pair if it happens. Mukhamadullin has graduated at this point so it’s really only Dickinson in the pipeline. We need all the legit defense prospects we can get our hands on especially RDs like Willander.
I largely agree on Landen and LSW, though jury is still out on LSW.

But, you really think Cagnoni is not a serious prospect? I get that he is undersized. I also get that his defensive game needs much work. But, I find it impressive to brush him off after he has an All star year as a 19 year old playing against men in the 2nd highest league in the land, after dominating in portland. His skating and edge work as well as his vision and passing are already NHL level. His defensive positioning, stick work, battle, and decision making still need work, but at his age, he is WAY ahead of the curve, and he plays with a confidence and swagger like he belongs.

I am not saying he will be a Quinn Hughes or a Spurgeon, a Hutson or a Krug, but I certainly would not think he cannot be just as good as those guys. He has much to learn of course, but he's barely 20. I think we discount him because of his size and his draft positioning, but the skill is there, and it very very hard to argue with the results thus far.

Hodge, I bet you end up wrong on this one. I bet Cagnoni has a solid NHL career and possibly even ends up an NHL all star in a few years. Hell, if he can be an AHL all star at 19/20, its hard for me to think he's peaked already. yes Potaralski and some others may be perrenial AHL studs and never really have the ability to make the leap, but I'm not sure Cags is in that camp. I certianly think he could really use a top end vet D partner to help him as he graduates to the NHL, but I think he might end up a staple on the sharks blueline for a generation. Annoying that he, dick, and schaefer (if we get him) are all left shots. LSW is too.... Really, Pohlkamp is the only Right shot D in the system with a legit NHL chance (Misskey and Roberts are right shots but seem serious long shots). I woudnt be surprised to see a Cagnoni-Pohlkamp combo on the blueline, even as early as next march.

I am excited to watch this kid develop, and I would not brush him off at all. Like Pohlkamp, sometimes guys get overlooked for size or lack of high end skill. Think pavelski or labanc. 6th and 7th rounders who lacked the high end skill when they were drafted, but ultimately became excellent NHL players. I think Cagnoni and Pohlkamp both fit that mold and I think both will be excellent NHL players in time.
 
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If the sharks draft Schaefer, then they need to add two RHD NHL level players. I suppose those guys don't have to be stars, but they should be good sized and solid. Perbix would be one for me. Fabbro can be the other, and neither costs any futures.

Left: Right:
Schaefer - Fabbro
Dickinson - Perbix
Cagnoni - Liljgren
Ferraro,Thrun, Vlasic - Desharnais, Thompson

To start the year Ferraro/thrun/vlasic can play in place of Cagnoni and/or Schaefer and/or Dickinson if either starts in juniors/AHL.

Then, as the year progresses, we can seee how the kids do, and they can be called up and thrun can go to the press box. Furthermore, if we stink (likely), then at the deadline, ferraro, desharnais and Liljgren will be sold off opening full space for the kids (pohlkamp and Thompson) to come up depending on development.

In the long term, assuming Dick and schaefer are as good as we hope, then this D corps could actually be really really good in time, and posssibly even respectable next year.
 
I agree. That said, we've seen young college players get moved under value a few times. His agent comments to the media may mean he's at risk to do his four years and become UFA since this will be his third year.

If not signed after his Jr. Year at BU, Vancouver will be staring down the option to play his 4th year and choose his spot. SJ would likely be quite confident of signing him (we don't care about bonuses, he's friends with Mack, and he'd probably be on our 2nd pair immediately.

I trust Vancouver should be able to get this done, but everything they touch turns to shit.
The thing that's interesting about Willander is that I think he is a legitimate threat to do all four years of college. In his draft year, he specifically chose to forgo playing for Allsvenskan or SHL and instead stayed in J20 the whole season purely to maintain his NCAA eligibility, even though that choice would probably have throttled his draft position if not for his excellent U18 tournament. That shows both patience and that he values his NCAA education. He has nothing really to lose by choosing to go back to BU for a year, as he can still burn a year off his ELC/UFA status by signing next spring. And it would give him some more leverage to get to a team he'd rather play for by threatening to do his last NCAA season and becoming a free agent.
 
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A lot of people in this thread are really sleeping on Cagnoni. Yeah he's an undersized 4th round pick. So what? He's the first D in his draft class to play an NHL game. He's on the AHL all rookie team and put up .8 ppg as a 19/20 year old D in the AHL. He's hardly guaranteed to be a superstar but he's very likely a long term NHLer with some star upside. If he's basically a poor man's Lane Hutson, that's a pretty good outcome and absolutely someone who gets us closer to being a competitive team. Of course there's more to D play than point totals, but compare him to Mukhmadullin, who people on here are generally higher on. He's a 23 year old who has never come close to putting up .8 ppg in the AHL or frankly any league over more than a 12 game season. That's not even a knock on Mukh but more of how impressive Cagnoni has been for his age at the level he's played at.
 
A lot of people in this thread are really sleeping on Cagnoni. Yeah he's an undersized 4th round pick. So what? He's the first D in his draft class to play an NHL game. He's on the AHL all rookie team and put up .8 ppg as a 19/20 year old D in the AHL. He's hardly guaranteed to be a superstar but he's very likely a long term NHLer with some star upside. If he's basically a poor man's Lane Hutson, that's a pretty good outcome and absolutely someone who gets us closer to being a competitive team. Of course there's more to D play than point totals, but compare him to Mukhmadullin, who people on here are generally higher on. He's a 23 year old who has never come close to putting up .8 ppg in the AHL or frankly any league over more than a 12 game season. That's not even a knock on Mukh but more of how impressive Cagnoni has been for his age at the level he's played at.
I don't think people are sleeping on how good it's going for him in the AHL. I think they're sleeping on whether that translates to the NHL. And using your example, Mukh may not be able to put up the points Cags can in the AHL but he actually looked like the best defenseman on the NHL team before his latest injury, because he was using his NHL-level length and mobility to impose himself on the game. It's not all about the points especially in the AHL. Poturalski is another great example of this as a C.

Cags was holding on for dear life out there during his time up - holding on decently well at times, other times very outmatched. His ceiling is probably Sam Girard, and we'll take that outcome all day every day, but nobody should expect Dan Boyle. If it happens, amazing, but not realistic.
 
If the sharks draft Schaefer, then they need to add two RHD NHL level players. I suppose those guys don't have to be stars, but they should be good sized and solid. Perbix would be one for me. Fabbro can be the other, and neither costs any futures.

Left: Right:
Schaefer - Fabbro
Dickinson - Perbix
Cagnoni - Liljgren
Ferraro,Thrun, Vlasic - Desharnais, Thompson

To start the year Ferraro/thrun/vlasic can play in place of Cagnoni and/or Schaefer and/or Dickinson if either starts in juniors/AHL.

Then, as the year progresses, we can seee how the kids do, and they can be called up and thrun can go to the press box. Furthermore, if we stink (likely), then at the deadline, ferraro, desharnais and Liljgren will be sold off opening full space for the kids (pohlkamp and Thompson) to come up depending on development.

In the long term, assuming Dick and schaefer are as good as we hope, then this D corps could actually be really really good in time, and posssibly even respectable next year.
I just realized that I forgot Shak... hes a 4th LHD, so we would either have to move a D, someone plays in the off hand, or a trade to bolster the forwards. Of, if we miss out on schaefer, then he slots in there.

the D of the future is starting to take shape.

LHD: Dick, Cagnoni, Mukh (Schaefer)
RHD: Pohlkamp, thompson

And any NHL players added to it, but if the kids step up, we wont actually need to add any bona fide top pair D from outside. just some more size and defensive/two way prowess.

it would be nice to get Hensler/Fiddler with the Dallas pick, even if it means packaging Ottawas #53 to move up into the 20-range to get him.

If this draft goes perfectly, We get Schaefer (at #1 or #2), Fiddler (move up to around #18-20), and a bigger winger with #33 like ihs-wozniak or maybe Shane Versaghi (possibly Nesbitt), or a surprise draft faller like Cherny last year (like if Spence falls a ton or what not). To me, that would be all she wrote on the rebuild.

All we'd need if one or two quality vet NHL RHD's and we'd be all set. Might still struggle next year, but the future D would be in place. At Forward, wed have the 1-2-3 at center (celly, smith, Ostapchuk/bystedt) along with 1 clear top line W, and at least 6 possible top 9 wingers in cherny, musty, graf, lund, haltunnen and '26 #33 overall.

Clearly, we'd need to add one or two high quality vet scoring wingers, but that's about it.

The only issue with drafting Schafer is that the left side would have schaefer, dickinson, Mukh, and Cagnoni, so all 4 cannot make it long term unless one plays off side. I suppose this is a great problem to have, and a nice insurance policy in case one or more does not work out as planned. I also suppose that makes missing out on schaefer slightly less painful and Dick-Mukh-Cagnoni is not a bad 1-2-3 down the left side for the future as well.

Truth is, you need at least 9 solid NHL forwards, and the sharks have 3 proven ones, and about 5-7 unproven ones (graf, lund, musty, cherny, Bystedt, Ostapchuk, haltunnen). Thus, we still could use one or two high level forward prospects. Hence why I suppose getting Misa instead of Schaefer is not the end of the world, particularly if we grab Fiddler with dallas' pick and maybe, if Tretheway or Amico fall a bit, we can snatch them with ottawa's pick too (or package a 3rd with a 4th and 5th and move in the second to take one of them. Id love to come away with two solid RHD prospects to go along with Thompson and Pohlkamp.
 
I don't think people are sleeping on how good it's going for him in the AHL. I think they're sleeping on whether that translates to the NHL. And using your example, Mukh may not be able to put up the points Cags can in the AHL but he actually looked like the best defenseman on the NHL team before his latest injury, because he was using his NHL-level length and mobility to impose himself on the game. It's not all about the points especially in the AHL. Poturalski is another great example of this as a C.

Cags was holding on for dear life out there during his time up - holding on decently well at times, other times very outmatched. His ceiling is probably Sam Girard, and we'll take that outcome all day every day, but nobody should expect Dan Boyle. If it happens, amazing, but not realistic.
I personally agree with Link here. I think his ceiling is alot higher than sam girard. Yes, AHL stardom doesnt necessarily translate, but then again, he was 19 for half the year! How mahy just-turned-20 year old Dmen go into the NHL less than a year out from juniors, and look totally at home. Pickles did it, but its extremely rare. Cagnoni is nearly a year younger than hutson. Quinn hughes became a regular NHLer at age 20 (the equivalent of next year for cagnoni). Spurgeon became a regular NHL at 21/22. Torey Krug became a regular NHL at 22.

personally, I didn't think Cagnoni looked that overmatched. Yeah, definitely tough, but then again, everyone looks overmatched to a degree in their first 6 NHL games. Mukh looked terrible too. Thrun still looks pretty bad. To expect him to look good, especially with desharnais as a partner and the post-trade deadline, tired out smithibrini, shark forward crew? thats crazy. Give him an actual NHL level D partner, a forward crew that can possess the puck just a little bit, and it's a different animal. I think he's a future NHL all star at best, and faily likely a solid Spurgeon/Girard type. Its possible that he is just a very good AHL level player who cannot stay in the NHL, but I think Link is right that he is getting overlooked for his cieling. I think he has a Torey Krug/Quinn Hughes like cieling of 50+ pts, #1 PP quarterback.
 
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I just realized that I forgot Shak... hes a 4th LHD, so we would either have to move a D, someone plays in the off hand, or a trade to bolster the forwards. Of, if we miss out on schaefer, then he slots in there.

the D of the future is starting to take shape.

LHD: Dick, Cagnoni, Mukh (Schaefer)
RHD: Pohlkamp, thompson

And any NHL players added to it, but if the kids step up, we wont actually need to add any bona fide top pair D from outside. just some more size and defensive/two way prowess.

it would be nice to get Hensler/Fiddler with the Dallas pick, even if it means packaging Ottawas #53 to move up into the 20-range to get him.

If this draft goes perfectly, We get Schaefer (at #1 or #2), Fiddler (move up to around #18-20), and a bigger winger with #33 like ihs-wozniak or maybe Shane Versaghi (possibly Nesbitt), or a surprise draft faller like Cherny last year (like if Spence falls a ton or what not). To me, that would be all she wrote on the rebuild.

All we'd need if one or two quality vet NHL RHD's and we'd be all set. Might still struggle next year, but the future D would be in place. At Forward, wed have the 1-2-3 at center (celly, smith, Ostapchuk/bystedt) along with 1 clear top line W, and at least 6 possible top 9 wingers in cherny, musty, graf, lund, haltunnen and '26 #33 overall.

Clearly, we'd need to add one or two high quality vet scoring wingers, but that's about it.

The only issue with drafting Schafer is that the left side would have schaefer, dickinson, Mukh, and Cagnoni, so all 4 cannot make it long term unless one plays off side. I suppose this is a great problem to have, and a nice insurance policy in case one or more does not work out as planned. I also suppose that makes missing out on schaefer slightly less painful and Dick-Mukh-Cagnoni is not a bad 1-2-3 down the left side for the future as well.

Truth is, you need at least 9 solid NHL forwards, and the sharks have 3 proven ones, and about 5-7 unproven ones (graf, lund, musty, cherny, Bystedt, Ostapchuk, haltunnen). Thus, we still could use one or two high level forward prospects. Hence why I suppose getting Misa instead of Schaefer is not the end of the world, particularly if we grab Fiddler with dallas' pick and maybe, if Tretheway or Amico fall a bit, we can snatch them with ottawa's pick too (or package a 3rd with a 4th and 5th and move in the second to take one of them. Id love to come away with two solid RHD prospects to go along with Thompson and Pohlkamp.
I don't think Thompson is a future piece for us. I also have no problems keeping Mukh on the right side with Ferraro this year and see if they can continue their chemistry. If they do and we can solidify the third pairing with them, it's a pretty solid 3rd group.
 
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I don't think people are sleeping on how good it's going for him in the AHL. I think they're sleeping on whether that translates to the NHL. And using your example, Mukh may not be able to put up the points Cags can in the AHL but he actually looked like the best defenseman on the NHL team before his latest injury, because he was using his NHL-level length and mobility to impose himself on the game. It's not all about the points especially in the AHL. Poturalski is another great example of this as a C.

Cags was holding on for dear life out there during his time up - holding on decently well at times, other times very outmatched. His ceiling is probably Sam Girard, and we'll take that outcome all day every day, but nobody should expect Dan Boyle. If it happens, amazing, but not realistic.
Sure no doubt he was struggling in the NHL. He's a 20 year old D. Every single 20 year old D struggles in the NHL, especially at first. Pretty much every rookie not named Celebrini had big struggles this year, D or otherwise. There's a reason literally no other D from his draft class has played in the NHL yet.
 
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I don't think people are sleeping on how good it's going for him in the AHL. I think they're sleeping on whether that translates to the NHL. And using your example, Mukh may not be able to put up the points Cags can in the AHL but he actually looked like the best defenseman on the NHL team before his latest injury, because he was using his NHL-level length and mobility to impose himself on the game. It's not all about the points especially in the AHL. Poturalski is another great example of this as a C.

Cags was holding on for dear life out there during his time up - holding on decently well at times, other times very outmatched. His ceiling is probably Sam Girard, and we'll take that outcome all day every day, but nobody should expect Dan Boyle. If it happens, amazing, but not realistic.
I'll take this 100% but we won't know what he can do until he finds some chemistry with someone and that'll take at least 10-15 games minimum. That's the problem with D prospects. A lot of times they look worse because they're just getting used to playing with someone.
 
Sure no doubt he was struggling in the NHL. He's a 20 year old D. Every single 20 year old D struggles in the NHL, especially at first. Pretty much every rookie not named Celebrini had big struggles this year, D or otherwise. There's a reason literally no other D from his draft class has played in the NHL yet.
We'll see. I hope you're right!

In other news, Dino Lou Lamoriello is out as GM. Dobson apparently said he was "down for whatever" and seems like he wants to get paid. New GM search incoming. Are we looking at the next tear down / if we are at 3 strike up the Dobson rumors.
 
I don't think Thompson is a future piece for us. I also have no problems keeping Mukh on the right side with Ferraro this year and see if they can continue their chemistry. If they do and we can solidify the third pairing with them, it's a pretty solid 3rd group.
I largely agree about thompson. The RHD list is short for the sharks, which is why he is listed there. Clearly, the post #1-3 picks in this draft need to add at least one bigger RHD, preferably two. Hopefully one of Hensler/Fiddler and maybe Tretheway, Amico, or Kettles. I suppose you can also fill this hole externally (dobson? Perbix? Fabbro? someone else...) Not everyone on your team can/should be home grown.
 
I largely agree about thompson. The RHD list is short for the sharks, which is why he is listed there. Clearly, the post #1-3 picks in this draft need to add at least one bigger RHD, preferably two. Hopefully one of Hensler/Fiddler and maybe Tretheway, Amico, or Kettles. I suppose you can also fill this hole externally (dobson? Perbix? Fabbro? someone else...) Not everyone on your team can/should be home grown.
That's why I think Grier makes one big swing this offseason at Ekblad and then goes back to Dollar General.
 
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I don't think people are sleeping on how good it's going for him in the AHL. I think they're sleeping on whether that translates to the NHL. And using your example, Mukh may not be able to put up the points Cags can in the AHL but he actually looked like the best defenseman on the NHL team before his latest injury, because he was using his NHL-level length and mobility to impose himself on the game. It's not all about the points especially in the AHL. Poturalski is another great example of this as a C.

Cags was holding on for dear life out there during his time up - holding on decently well at times, other times very outmatched. His ceiling is probably Sam Girard, and we'll take that outcome all day every day, but nobody should expect Dan Boyle. If it happens, amazing, but not realistic.
Worth noting too that at Cagnoni’s age, Girard was already a productive NHLer. When these smurf offensemen hit they tend to hit early.
 
Cagnoni was a deer in headlights when he was called up, which is exactly what you would expect from a guy who wasn't even assured of making the Barracuda to start the year. In his second call up, and in the games with the Cuda since the call up, he looked way more confident. This summer will be huge for him, but he gained some valuable experience. I don't think we need to try and define his potential at this point, and I'm looking forward to seeing where he goes from here.
 

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