Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[coooldude]

Yah they will never flat out say what it is, but we have been bottom of the league for a while and that's with a MASSIVE dead cap. Teams like Dallas have 2x more salary into their players than we do. Does Plattner think we have a winning team for 25-26? Because objectively it's not likely. If there isn't a winning team here, then would he spend significantly more and allow GMMG to spend big money? I don't know but I've seen no indication that they will, and GMMG as recently as the TDL suggested that they wouldn't be 'aggressive' in signing anyone this offseason, just active (so more mid tier players, less Marners and Ekblads).

We were in a situation where we had to rip it down to the studs. You don't spend to the cap just to do it. You have to add the right pieces and with the right contracts.

To that point, Grier didn't say he wouldn't go big game hunting. He said he didn't want to sign "3 guys to 7x9 or something and end up regretting it when two don't work out" or something along those lines. We probably won't be anywhere near the cap this year but it won't be because Hasso wouldn't do it, it'll be because it would be foolish to spend just to hit the cap without having a strategy.

We'll probably be pretty close to the cap in 2028-2030 when the prospects are on their first deals, some of them big. And I think he will try to sign one $9mm player this summer, whether he does or whether it's a good idea remains to be seen.

 

[sampler]

Happy to see Pionk off the table

He's not close to worth $7M, didn't want any part of that

No way! Id have been thrilled with that. 7M for a top 4damn is a good price. Remember, the cap is rising, so 7M is not what it used to be. Oh well....

 

[Grinner]

We were in a situation where we had to rip it down to the studs. You don't spend to the cap just to do it. You have to add the right pieces and with the right contracts.

To that point, Grier didn't say he wouldn't go big game hunting. He said he didn't want to sign "3 guys to 7x9 or something and end up regretting it when two don't work out" or something along those lines. We probably won't be anywhere near the cap this year but it won't be because Hasso wouldn't do it, it'll be because it would be foolish to spend just to hit the cap without having a strategy.

We'll probably be pretty close to the cap in 2028-2030 when the prospects are on their first deals, some of them big. And I think he will try to sign one $9mm player this summer, whether he does or whether it's a good idea remains to be seen.

Hasso didn't have any problem spending to the cap when he wasnt losing money by doing so. Fill the tank with fans and watch the dollars flow

 

[Yummyshark]

We were in a situation where we had to rip it down to the studs. You don't spend to the cap just to do it. You have to add the right pieces and with the right contracts.

To that point, Grier didn't say he wouldn't go big game hunting. He said he didn't want to sign "3 guys to 7x9 or something and end up regretting it when two don't work out" or something along those lines. We probably won't be anywhere near the cap this year but it won't be because Hasso wouldn't do it, it'll be because it would be foolish to spend just to hit the cap without having a strategy.

We'll probably be pretty close to the cap in 2028-2030 when the prospects are on their first deals, some of them big. And I think he will try to sign one $9mm player this summer, whether he does or whether it's a good idea remains to be seen.

Don't disagree, but I think regardless of whether or not there's an internal budget or just part of the plan, the Sharks won't spend the big money for guys like Ekblad and Marner, so all of the dream scenarios I see here (like uh that one guy who says we should get BOTH Marner and Ekblad and somehow trade for Krieder on top of that) are highly unlikely and borderline impossible. While he didn't explicitly say 'I won't go big game hunting', saying 'I won't be aggressive and overpay for money and term' is basically just implying it, since let's be honest, the only way you get a big name when you are the worst team in the league is by overpaying.

Basically, you can dream of big names, but you should expect more mid tier guys. Maybe not even mid tier guys. We could just be looking at the box of leftovers if GMMG strikes out. We were voted the 2nd least desirable destination in a recent players' poll, and TT only came cuz his wife is a local and we were probably the only team that offered him an NTC on top of that money and term.

 

[sampler]

2025 Sharks Offseason Plan

There has been a lot of discussion about the draft and offseason so I wanted to put together my thoughts on what my offseason plan would be if I was Grier.

To start I think it is important to state the desired goal of the offseason. In this case my goal would be to build an improved team that can compete on a nightly basis and hopefully play meaningful games into late March. At a similar place in the standings to Boston this season. Still far enough out to justify selling at the deadline but not so far that it is a forgone conclusion to sell at the deadline. Even if the draft pick falls in the 8-12 range that is not a concern.

I see 5 specific needs that need to be addressed before the season starts. I will list them in order of priority and then go into specifics on how to address each of them.

1. Top 4 D that can play on the right side ideally RH. The primary objective is to push Liljegren to the bottom pairing RD.
2. Top 6 FW that can anchor a 2nd line without Wenberg. Wenberg is not a 2C unless you want to be worst in the league. This could be a wing that can support Smith’s move to C or a C that is better than Wenberg.
3. Additional top 4 D that can push Dickinson to the bottom pairing or CHL. The top 4 should be the 2 new additions and Ferraro-Muk. No other Sharks D under contract should get top 4 minutes.
4. Stable backup 1B goalie to take 30-35 starts and provide stability for Askarov.
5. Big middle 6 wing who can excels as the F1 on the forecheck.
All other holes in the lineup could be filled internally.

Needs 2 or 3 can be filled by either Schaefer or Misa respectively. While Misa might not quite be ready to play top 6 and push Wenberg to the 3rd line he would be the long term answer to that role and worth giving runway to develop into that player. If not able to draft either there is nobody else that can make the team next season and that would be one more hole that would be needed to be filled by trade or FA.

Need #1: My preferred target is Ekblad as he would only require cap space and is a steady top pairing RD that can take on top competition. This player doesn’t have to play top PP since Dickinson/Schaefer/Muk/Cagnoni could all develop into PPQB’s. One other benefit of Ekblad is he could mentor Schaefer as a #1 overall D who played 81 games after his draft year. Schaefer-Ekblad and Ferraro-Muk would be a vast improvement on the top 4 this past season. I would absolutely go to 7x$9.5 as I think Ekblad will be the perfect steady option that can support the development of the young Sharks D. Other options would be Fabbro or Gavrikov in UFA. Trade options are Dobson or maybe Nemec (he would need to grow into the role). The internal option if not addressed is Liljegren in the top 4 and Desharnais on the bottom pairing.

Need #2: If drafting Misa this need is addressed. If not I think this is where I would swing big and back up the brinks truck for Marner. I buy into the idea of Marner wants to leave the leafs then his mentors Marleau and Thornton would sell him on the calm lifestyle afforded in SJ. I would go to 7x$15 easily and even consider 7x$17. One other scenario is to offer max salary for 1 season $19.1 then sell him on SJ and if he likes it he can sign an 8x$12.6 deal which would give him effectively $120 million guaranteed over 9 years. Now the likely scenario Marner doesn’t sign I would target Bennett on a long term deal or look to over pay on shorter deals for Nelson, Granlund, Tavares, or Duchene. The internal option if not addressed this offseason is Wenberg at 2C and Ostapchuk or similar player at 3C. We all know how that will turn out.

Need #3: If picking #1 this is easy. Draft Schaefer and it’s all taken care of. If not drafting Schaefer a lot of the same options from Need 1 would be here. If not drafting Schaefer then I would be more aggressive here looking for either LD or RD. Byram would be a more aggressive target if not drafting Schaefer. Provorov while not one of my favorites would be an option here too. The internal option if not addressed is to run Thrun on the 2nd pairing. We have seen how that turns out.

Need #4: A lot of teams have been aggressive in locking up their backups in addition to their starting goalies. There are not many options in FA. I think Allen would be my preferred option but he will also have multiple suitors. At least Grier confirmed Georgiev won’t be back. The internal option if not addressed is Romanov which is not ideal when also starting a young inexperienced goalie.

Need #5: This need goes more into lineup construction and needing an F1 on each line that is able to create space and retrieve pucks for the Sharks talented young players. This is where I would first look at trade options. Many of these players are grossly overpaid in FA and usually do not age well so a 7 year contract is not ideal for this type of player. My favorite targets are Cuylle or Krieder by leveraging the Rangers cap crunch. Marchment in Dallas is another intriguing option that could be a cap casualty in Dallas. If not addressed the internal options are not terrible but would either put players above their ideal spot in the lineup or force Warsofsky to abandon an F1 on each too 6 line which as we saw this season is not ideal.

After addressing these needs the next goal is to continue to accumulate picks and prospects. Ideally one of the big RHD projected in the top 60 picks will be chosen to help round out the biggest weakness in the prospect pool.

25-26 Roster
Eklund - Celebrini - Toffoli
Need #5(Krieder) - Smith - Need #2(Marner)
Kovalenko/CardwellProspect - Wenberg - Graf
Goodrow - Ostapchuk - Dellandrea
Grundstrom

Need #3(Schaefer) - Need #1(Ekblad)
Ferraro - Mukamadulin
Dickinson - Liljegren

Askarov
Need #4(Allen)

If this team achieves the goal of being reluctant sellers they could acquire a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd from selling Ferraro, Wenberg, Dellandrea, and Liljegren.

Love this post, and I largely agree. The money would be 15+M for marner, nearly 10M for ekblad, 6.5M kreider, 3M for allen = total of approximately 35M added, should fit in the near and long term cap structure.

I also love targeting ekblad. Sharks need dominant size on D, and the cup winning experience along with a guy who can play 25 mins against top opposition.

I'm less confident penciling schaefer into a top pairing role at barely 18 (possibly still 17 at the start of camp). After playing less than 20 games OHL+Jrs combined, I think its a hell of a leap from that to NHL top pair. I think they will need a Ceci-like D on a short term deal to buy a year or two for him. Dumoulin? Ceci himself?

Really having Schaefer, dickinson, and Mukh in your starting 6 is gunna be a problem. Mukh is still bascially a rookie, having played just 30 NHL games and is also so injury prone that I wouldnt trust him to fill any kind of major role just yet. 3 rookies in your top 6 along with liljgren and ferraro is not gunna be good enough to emerge from the cellar. Ekblad alone is not enough. they need another top 4D in addition.

The forwards are borderline PO level, though the problem of size remains clear with marner. obviously, having a guy of his ilk come in is exciting, but watching the sharks get physically dominated and unable to cycle well is tough. They need size up front, so I'd rather get two larger 2nd line equivalent wings than one marner level guy.

I do like the 3rd line wing spot for whoever wins the camp battle of the prospects. Id like one of cherny, musty, haltunnen, Lund to compete for an NHL spot. It very possible that one of them, especially cherny or musty, could make an interesting case.

Its a great offseason game plan, and it's possible that there are SO MANY HOLES that there is no way for grier to really make enough moves to bring them into respectability. Still, its gotta start with getting TWO top 4 D (in addition to Schaefer), so they dont have to have 3 rookies or desharnais/Thrun/Liljgren in the regular lineup. And if they get TWO top 4 D, then Dick, Schaef, and Mukh can slowly join them (and take over for them) over the next 5+ years as the team moves on from Liljgren and ferraro, and begin giving the reins to the kids.

 

[sampler]

Don't disagree, but I think regardless of whether or not there's an internal budget or just part of the plan, the Sharks won't spend the big money for guys like Ekblad and Marner, so all of the dream scenarios I see here (like uh that one guy who says we should get BOTH Marner and Ekblad and somehow trade for Krieder on top of that) are highly unlikely and borderline impossible. While he didn't explicitly say 'I won't go big game hunting', saying 'I won't be aggressive and overpay for money and term' is basically just implying it, since let's be honest, the only way you get a big name when you are the worst team in the league is by overpaying.

Basically, you can dream of big names, but you should expect more mid tier guys. Maybe not even mid tier guys. We could just be looking at the box of leftovers if GMMG strikes out. We were voted the 2nd least desirable destination in a recent players' poll, and TT only came cuz his wife is a local and we were probably the only team that offered him an NTC on top of that money and term.

Stop Being realistic! Damnit!!

None of us can bear another dumpster diving summer when Jack Roslovic is the biggest name add ,and we all get excited about Tony Deangelo.

 

[tiburon12]

apparently Hasso went from running crazy lean scouting & development teams in the DW era, and during the hiring process GMMG got him to pay up for a much bigger staff

so I think Hasso has no issue w/ spending as long as GMMG can sell it

I don't say this flippantly, but the vibe i get from Hasso is that he wants the Sharks to win before he dies, and he's 81.

 

[gaucholoco3]

It really isn't that rare, price, hossa, pronger, couture, bure, kariya, lindros, cam neely, moore, barnaby, savard, lafontaine, stevens, richter, primeau, deadmarsh, beukemon, svoboda, courtnall. And plenty more.

So 20 players in the last 30 years. Maybe 2,000 established players have played in that time. So 1% when also most of those guys are in their late 30’s when they had career ending injuries not their late 20’s.

 

[weastern bias]

Yah they will never flat out say what it is, but we have been bottom of the league for a while and that's with a MASSIVE dead cap. Teams like Dallas have 2x more salary into their players than we do. Does Plattner think we have a winning team for 25-26? Because objectively it's not likely. If there isn't a winning team here, then would he spend significantly more and allow GMMG to spend big money? I don't know but I've seen no indication that they will, and GMMG as recently as the TDL suggested that they wouldn't be 'aggressive' in signing anyone this offseason, just active (so more mid tier players, less Marners and Ekblads).

We don't necessarily need to have the plan to be competing next year, but the plan could be to start spending next year to build to road map to a competitive team in the near future, but we just won't know until we see the moves this summer

 

[weastern bias]

No way! Id have been thrilled with that. 7M for a top 4damn is a good price. Remember, the cap is rising, so 7M is not what it used to be. Oh well....

No thanks

 

[Yummyshark]

Stop Being realistic! Damnit!!

None of us can bear another dumpster diving summer when Jack Roslovic is the biggest name add ,and we all get excited about Tony Deangelo.

Wahaha Roslovic would unironically be a pretty good catch by GMMG. If GMMG could respond to your lamentations he would probably say "you'll take Roslovic and Lindgren and you'll like it."

 

[Barrie22]

So 20 players in the last 30 years. Maybe 2,000 established players have played in that time. So 1% when also most of those guys are in their late 30’s when they had career ending injuries not their late 20’s.

You think that is all of them? Majority of those were just ones that ended there career early due to concussions.

The fact you think a player that is being brought in to make this team better, right dead center in that players prime years and into the start of the usual decline of a players career for the potential to maybe making a little bit more down the line.

When that player can lock that money in and make it guaranteed money now, not 3 years down the road. Nhl players are not the sharpest tools in the shed, but nobody is going to take the chance with a career that can literally end with wrong hit.

 

[vortexx]

I swear it was just last season where Pionk was heavily scrutinized and looked terrible in the playoffs. Maybe my memory is hazy but I could have sworn many thought the Jets had to move off from him as a cap dump. Honestly glad we don't have to take on that contract. Dylan Samberg is the player I would be interested in, RFA though and Jets will have plenty of cap space.

 

[gaucholoco3]

No thanks

An example of how valuable RHD are.

If I was a struggling RH 4th liner I would consider trying to learn to play D.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

An example of how valuable RHD are.

If I was a struggling RH 4th liner I would consider trying to learn to play D.

I would've given Pionk that cap hit but six years is two years too long for me with him.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

I don’t know how you watch Hasso sign off on the Karlsson contract, or personally attend the pitch meeting for Tavares and worry that he’d starve the team of money if that’s what’s needed.

Broseph is only getting older, and you can’t take it with you. Seriously, with every passing year I’ve got to think any operating deficits the Sharks are running is less and less of a pressing concern for Platner.

 

[one2gamble]

I don’t know how you watch Hasso sign off on the Karlsson contract, or personally attend the pitch meeting for Tavares and worry that he’d starve the team of money if that’s what’s needed.

Broseph is only getting older, and you can’t take it with you. Seriously, with every passing year I’ve got to think any operating deficits the Sharks are running is less and less of a pressing concern for Platner.

Hasso isnt that concerned, but I am because I dont know whats coming after Hasso.

 

[Friday]

Hasso isnt that concerned, but I am because I dont know whats coming after Hasso.

Honestly we should be grateful that Hasso is here during the lean years. Either way the Sharks have such a bright future things are pretty safe if he sells or hands it off

 

[Friday]

Haha @Juxtaposer maybe you’re right

 

[Lebanezer]

 

[Juxtaposer]

Haha @Juxtaposer maybe you’re right

Was just coming here to post that. "Probably" is doing a lot of work in that sentence, but I'll choose to take it at face value. I think you absolutely have to do everything you can to get Smith at center long-term, as that was part of the justification for taking him over Michkov. I don't want to be one of those teams eternally searching for a 2C in their contention window--I think 2C is the third most important position on an NHL roster.

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
XXX-Smith-XXX
XXX-Wennberg-Graf

That's how I see our top-9 shaking out. Celebrini line takes shutdown matchups, Wennberg/Graf takes second matchups, Smith is sheltered a bit. Gotta hunt down some wingers this summer to make this work. But the makings of a solid top-9 are there.

 

[Lebanezer]

 

[Hodge]

Was just coming here to post that. "Probably" is doing a lot of work in that sentence, but I'll choose to take it at face value. I think you absolutely have to do everything you can to get Smith at center long-term, as that was part of the justification for taking him over Michkov. I don't want to be one of those teams eternally searching for a 2C in their contention window--I think 2C is the third most important position on an NHL roster.

Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
XXX-Smith-XXX
XXX-Wennberg-Graf

That's how I see our top-9 shaking out. Celebrini line takes shutdown matchups, Wennberg/Graf takes second matchups, Smith is sheltered a bit. Gotta hunt down some wingers this summer to make this work. But the makings of a solid top-9 are there.

Maybe bring Granlund back to play on Will's wing and help with faceoffs. I like Burakovsky as a buy low option for the other top six wing slot. Then just pencil in Grundstrom with Wennberg and Graf and hope Chernyshov or Lund or Bystedt wins that job.

 

[TheBeard]

Welcome back, Nico Sturm

 

[Juxtaposer]

Maybe bring Granlund back to play on Will's wing and help with faceoffs. I like Burakovsky as a buy low option for the other top six wing slot. Then just pencil in Grundstrom with Wennberg and Graf and hope Chernyshov or Lund or Bystedt wins that job.

I definitely wouldn't turn down Granlund at like $8Mx3. He's a proven fit and leader.

I wouldn't turn my nose up at Burakovsky, but I would aim higher. I am really hoping one of the Chernyshov/Musty/Lund/Bystedt/Halttunen cohort can win a third line spot out of camp. It would take a lot of pressure off of acquisitions.

Mostly, I just don't want to add any bad fourth liners.