weastern bias
worst team in the league
Happy to see Pionk off the table
He's not close to worth $7M, didn't want any part of that
He's not close to worth $7M, didn't want any part of that
Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion
- Thread starter WTFetus
- Start date
Stewie Griffin
What the deuce
We should go "all in" on a Provorov or Ekblad. Instantly our best defenseman.
I like Perbix too.
I like Perbix too.
I would have been happy if the Sharks signed that deal but that’s more from desperation than it actually being a good deal. At least for the team it is only 6 years instead of 8.
2025 Sharks Offseason Plan
There has been a lot of discussion about the draft and offseason so I wanted to put together my thoughts on what my offseason plan would be if I was Grier.
To start I think it is important to state the desired goal of the offseason. In this case my goal would be to build an improved team that can compete on a nightly basis and hopefully play meaningful games into late March. At a similar place in the standings to Boston this season. Still far enough out to justify selling at the deadline but not so far that it is a forgone conclusion to sell at the deadline. Even if the draft pick falls in the 8-12 range that is not a concern.
I see 5 specific needs that need to be addressed before the season starts. I will list them in order of priority and then go into specifics on how to address each of them.
1. Top 4 D that can play on the right side ideally RH. The primary objective is to push Liljegren to the bottom pairing RD.
2. Top 6 FW that can anchor a 2nd line without Wenberg. Wenberg is not a 2C unless you want to be worst in the league. This could be a wing that can support Smith’s move to C or a C that is better than Wenberg.
3. Additional top 4 D that can push Dickinson to the bottom pairing or CHL. The top 4 should be the 2 new additions and Ferraro-Muk. No other Sharks D under contract should get top 4 minutes.
4. Stable backup 1B goalie to take 30-35 starts and provide stability for Askarov.
5. Big middle 6 wing who can excels as the F1 on the forecheck.
All other holes in the lineup could be filled internally.
Needs 2 or 3 can be filled by either Schaefer or Misa respectively. While Misa might not quite be ready to play top 6 and push Wenberg to the 3rd line he would be the long term answer to that role and worth giving runway to develop into that player. If not able to draft either there is nobody else that can make the team next season and that would be one more hole that would be needed to be filled by trade or FA.
Need #1: My preferred target is Ekblad as he would only require cap space and is a steady top pairing RD that can take on top competition. This player doesn’t have to play top PP since Dickinson/Schaefer/Muk/Cagnoni could all develop into PPQB’s. One other benefit of Ekblad is he could mentor Schaefer as a #1 overall D who played 81 games after his draft year. Schaefer-Ekblad and Ferraro-Muk would be a vast improvement on the top 4 this past season. I would absolutely go to 7x$9.5 as I think Ekblad will be the perfect steady option that can support the development of the young Sharks D. Other options would be Fabbro or Gavrikov in UFA. Trade options are Dobson or maybe Nemec (he would need to grow into the role). The internal option if not addressed is Liljegren in the top 4 and Desharnais on the bottom pairing.
Need #2: If drafting Misa this need is addressed. If not I think this is where I would swing big and back up the brinks truck for Marner. I buy into the idea of Marner wants to leave the leafs then his mentors Marleau and Thornton would sell him on the calm lifestyle afforded in SJ. I would go to 7x$15 easily and even consider 7x$17. One other scenario is to offer max salary for 1 season $19.1 then sell him on SJ and if he likes it he can sign an 8x$12.6 deal which would give him effectively $120 million guaranteed over 9 years. Now the likely scenario Marner doesn’t sign I would target Bennett on a long term deal or look to over pay on shorter deals for Nelson, Granlund, Tavares, or Duchene. The internal option if not addressed this offseason is Wenberg at 2C and Ostapchuk or similar player at 3C. We all know how that will turn out.
Need #3: If picking #1 this is easy. Draft Schaefer and it’s all taken care of. If not drafting Schaefer a lot of the same options from Need 1 would be here. If not drafting Schaefer then I would be more aggressive here looking for either LD or RD. Byram would be a more aggressive target if not drafting Schaefer. Provorov while not one of my favorites would be an option here too. The internal option if not addressed is to run Thrun on the 2nd pairing. We have seen how that turns out.
Need #4: A lot of teams have been aggressive in locking up their backups in addition to their starting goalies. There are not many options in FA. I think Allen would be my preferred option but he will also have multiple suitors. At least Grier confirmed Georgiev won’t be back. The internal option if not addressed is Romanov which is not ideal when also starting a young inexperienced goalie.
Need #5: This need goes more into lineup construction and needing an F1 on each line that is able to create space and retrieve pucks for the Sharks talented young players. This is where I would first look at trade options. Many of these players are grossly overpaid in FA and usually do not age well so a 7 year contract is not ideal for this type of player. My favorite targets are Cuylle or Krieder by leveraging the Rangers cap crunch. Marchment in Dallas is another intriguing option that could be a cap casualty in Dallas. If not addressed the internal options are not terrible but would either put players above their ideal spot in the lineup or force Warsofsky to abandon an F1 on each too 6 line which as we saw this season is not ideal.
After addressing these needs the next goal is to continue to accumulate picks and prospects. Ideally one of the big RHD projected in the top 60 picks will be chosen to help round out the biggest weakness in the prospect pool.
25-26 Roster
Eklund - Celebrini - Toffoli
Need #5(Krieder) - Smith - Need #2(Marner)
Kovalenko/CardwellProspect - Wenberg - Graf
Goodrow - Ostapchuk - Dellandrea
Grundstrom
Need #3(Schaefer) - Need #1(Ekblad)
Ferraro - Mukamadulin
Dickinson - Liljegren
Askarov
Need #4(Allen)
If this team achieves the goal of being reluctant sellers they could acquire a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd from selling Ferraro, Wenberg, Dellandrea, and Liljegren.
There has been a lot of discussion about the draft and offseason so I wanted to put together my thoughts on what my offseason plan would be if I was Grier.
To start I think it is important to state the desired goal of the offseason. In this case my goal would be to build an improved team that can compete on a nightly basis and hopefully play meaningful games into late March. At a similar place in the standings to Boston this season. Still far enough out to justify selling at the deadline but not so far that it is a forgone conclusion to sell at the deadline. Even if the draft pick falls in the 8-12 range that is not a concern.
I see 5 specific needs that need to be addressed before the season starts. I will list them in order of priority and then go into specifics on how to address each of them.
1. Top 4 D that can play on the right side ideally RH. The primary objective is to push Liljegren to the bottom pairing RD.
2. Top 6 FW that can anchor a 2nd line without Wenberg. Wenberg is not a 2C unless you want to be worst in the league. This could be a wing that can support Smith’s move to C or a C that is better than Wenberg.
3. Additional top 4 D that can push Dickinson to the bottom pairing or CHL. The top 4 should be the 2 new additions and Ferraro-Muk. No other Sharks D under contract should get top 4 minutes.
4. Stable backup 1B goalie to take 30-35 starts and provide stability for Askarov.
5. Big middle 6 wing who can excels as the F1 on the forecheck.
All other holes in the lineup could be filled internally.
Needs 2 or 3 can be filled by either Schaefer or Misa respectively. While Misa might not quite be ready to play top 6 and push Wenberg to the 3rd line he would be the long term answer to that role and worth giving runway to develop into that player. If not able to draft either there is nobody else that can make the team next season and that would be one more hole that would be needed to be filled by trade or FA.
Need #1: My preferred target is Ekblad as he would only require cap space and is a steady top pairing RD that can take on top competition. This player doesn’t have to play top PP since Dickinson/Schaefer/Muk/Cagnoni could all develop into PPQB’s. One other benefit of Ekblad is he could mentor Schaefer as a #1 overall D who played 81 games after his draft year. Schaefer-Ekblad and Ferraro-Muk would be a vast improvement on the top 4 this past season. I would absolutely go to 7x$9.5 as I think Ekblad will be the perfect steady option that can support the development of the young Sharks D. Other options would be Fabbro or Gavrikov in UFA. Trade options are Dobson or maybe Nemec (he would need to grow into the role). The internal option if not addressed is Liljegren in the top 4 and Desharnais on the bottom pairing.
Need #2: If drafting Misa this need is addressed. If not I think this is where I would swing big and back up the brinks truck for Marner. I buy into the idea of Marner wants to leave the leafs then his mentors Marleau and Thornton would sell him on the calm lifestyle afforded in SJ. I would go to 7x$15 easily and even consider 7x$17. One other scenario is to offer max salary for 1 season $19.1 then sell him on SJ and if he likes it he can sign an 8x$12.6 deal which would give him effectively $120 million guaranteed over 9 years. Now the likely scenario Marner doesn’t sign I would target Bennett on a long term deal or look to over pay on shorter deals for Nelson, Granlund, Tavares, or Duchene. The internal option if not addressed this offseason is Wenberg at 2C and Ostapchuk or similar player at 3C. We all know how that will turn out.
Need #3: If picking #1 this is easy. Draft Schaefer and it’s all taken care of. If not drafting Schaefer a lot of the same options from Need 1 would be here. If not drafting Schaefer then I would be more aggressive here looking for either LD or RD. Byram would be a more aggressive target if not drafting Schaefer. Provorov while not one of my favorites would be an option here too. The internal option if not addressed is to run Thrun on the 2nd pairing. We have seen how that turns out.
Need #4: A lot of teams have been aggressive in locking up their backups in addition to their starting goalies. There are not many options in FA. I think Allen would be my preferred option but he will also have multiple suitors. At least Grier confirmed Georgiev won’t be back. The internal option if not addressed is Romanov which is not ideal when also starting a young inexperienced goalie.
Need #5: This need goes more into lineup construction and needing an F1 on each line that is able to create space and retrieve pucks for the Sharks talented young players. This is where I would first look at trade options. Many of these players are grossly overpaid in FA and usually do not age well so a 7 year contract is not ideal for this type of player. My favorite targets are Cuylle or Krieder by leveraging the Rangers cap crunch. Marchment in Dallas is another intriguing option that could be a cap casualty in Dallas. If not addressed the internal options are not terrible but would either put players above their ideal spot in the lineup or force Warsofsky to abandon an F1 on each too 6 line which as we saw this season is not ideal.
After addressing these needs the next goal is to continue to accumulate picks and prospects. Ideally one of the big RHD projected in the top 60 picks will be chosen to help round out the biggest weakness in the prospect pool.
25-26 Roster
Eklund - Celebrini - Toffoli
Need #5(Krieder) - Smith - Need #2(Marner)
Kovalenko/CardwellProspect - Wenberg - Graf
Goodrow - Ostapchuk - Dellandrea
Grundstrom
Need #3(Schaefer) - Need #1(Ekblad)
Ferraro - Mukamadulin
Dickinson - Liljegren
Askarov
Need #4(Allen)
If this team achieves the goal of being reluctant sellers they could acquire a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd from selling Ferraro, Wenberg, Dellandrea, and Liljegren.
- Jul 25, 2007
- 3,390
- 9,527
I like the thinking and agree with the needs, but I personally believe that neither Misa nor Schaefer will be NHL ready next year, making Grier's offseason even harder or requiring a prospect breakout.
So rare to see an 18yo succeed at D. Not Makar, not Heiskanen, not Hughes, not Sanderson. When's the last young 18yo to have a successful D season in the league? Dahlin, Ekblad only? Hanafin and Chychrun were the only other two I could find with more than 20 points this century. So there's a chance, but a slim one.
Misa, guess it could go either way, perhaps he gets the Leo Carlsson/ Smith "dev day" treatment.
I largely agree with it as well. I think you're probably correct on their NHL readiness but I'm not opposed to the Smith treatment. I think the path to avoid having the top pick go down is back to juniors. It should be college or the NHL, imo. And the team should build the best they can around that to the best of their abilities. I'm hoping for the best but even a lot of everyone's ideal lineups is still going to come with significant risk of still being in the basement next season. I'd rather continue focusing on the development of our high value players with a future and let things fall where they may.
Tank Commander finished the mission. Give him his purple heart and lets move along.
Skeksis25
Registered User
- Feb 17, 2023
- 295
- 1,236
I just feel that for a team whose biggest FA signing ever has been Toffoli, its hard to envision us signing guys like Ekblad and Marner to 10m+ per year contracts. For whatever reason, free agents tend to avoid San Jose and I don't know if that has somehow changed. I'm all for trying to get those 2 to come here though.
Timo Time
73-9
Grier: Hey *insert free agent here*, look I can offer you a shit ton of money but you might prefer a less-taxed destination. However, what I can offer you as a bonus-
And this is the origin story of how Grier landed notable F/A and now highest paid player; Luke Kunin.
And this is the origin story of how Grier landed notable F/A and now highest paid player; Luke Kunin.
I agree it’s unlikely but for almost all of the cap era the Sharks were mostly set at top 6 and top 4 positions from trades by DW so it was more about keeping the talent than adding in FA. Then Covid hit and they have been bad and not wanting to add.
They also have never had a young developing 1st overall pick before. They also have more cap space than every other team.
Why not offer 1 or 2 year deals at max $19.1 million to bring the players in and get that time to sell them on the team.
I could see that being hard for a player to turn down. Especially with Marner having his “godfathers” here.
weastern bias
worst team in the league
High-end free agents don't care about exciting prospects, they care about winning, money and lifestyle
No player who cares about winning now will sign here
No player who cares about winning now will sign here
Why would a player sign a 2 year contract for 38 million, when another team offers 7 years for 70 million?
sure 39 mil for 2 years and 80 mil for 8 years after that would be nice, but what happens if in year 1 of that 1st contract a couture type injury happens and bye bye career. Now you have lost out on 32 million dollars.
weastern bias
worst team in the league
This is why players take the long term security almost every time, serious injuries are too common in hockey to try to be clever and double dip, if money is on the table you take it
It’s more guaranteed money upfront and still getting a chance at one more big contract. It increases total earnings potential. Also while the Couture style career ending injury is a risk it is extremely rare. No players playing in the NHL are that risk adverse. At the same time Marner or Ekblad both would have made $100 million in career earnings with that $39 million so that would not be as much of a concern. Also if truly risk averse players can find insurance companies that can provide insurance for future earnings.
The main point is the Sharks can outbid any team so money should not be a reason why they can’t sign a player. Whether they want short term money or long term security the Sharks can offer both.
weastern bias
worst team in the league
Almost every NHL player is that risk averse when it comes to contract negotiations
Career altering injuries occur every year, it's one of the most dangerous sports in the world, if a 7/8 year big money deal is available on a team the player wouldn't hate to play for they're almost always going to take it
weastern bias
worst team in the league
We can outbid anyone, the question is whether or not we should do so in this incredibly shallow free agent year
It really isn't that rare, price, hossa, pronger, couture, bure, kariya, lindros, cam neely, moore, barnaby, savard, lafontaine, stevens, richter, primeau, deadmarsh, beukemon, svoboda, courtnall. And plenty more.
I honestly wonder though what the internal budget Plattner has set for this team. Our effective salary (once you take out Couture, Vlasic, all the buy outs and dead cap) is like just north of 40 million. For such a losing team with low attendance and an awful TV deal, Plattner might just be 'ok nothing above 50 million' in which case we can't bid for anyone halfway decent, since we'll just be using the available salary to fill in the roster.
I would sign no more than 2 of those players.
- Jul 25, 2007
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- 9,527
I don't think it's reasonable to assume there's a low internal cap. This is based on all the public comments about Hasso, and Grier's plan. I think Hasso wants to build around the core. I think they'll try to spend this summer. If anything I'd be worried Hasso pushes Grier to be too aggressive.
weastern bias
worst team in the league
Unfortunately this is something we just won't know because even if the org has an internal cap they likely won't admit it, it's bad for business to admit to the fans that the losingest franchise of the decade isn't willing to spend to improve their roster
On the optimistic side Hasso has proven he's willing to spend big in an attempt to win as recently as 5 years ago, the last time we thought we might be good, he had just signed what is still the largest contract for any defenseman in the league, hopefully he is still of that same mind
Sharks have been pretty low since 2019, were bottom of the league this past season despite having almost 25 million in dead space (which has to be near tops in the league). I don't take too much stock with public comments since we all know they have to sell tickets and interest. I do remember Grier stating last off season they have their own internal budget that they follow and thus won't overpay for anyone. Which of course happened as TT was the only signing of note. Then after the TDL this past season he reiterated again that he will be 'active' in signing players but won't overpay on money or term, that he won't be 'aggressive' but just 'active'.
We'll see what they do but I would say it's even more unreasonable to assume this team will spend this offseason when there's been no indication that they will break open the bank or spend significantly more.
sharski
Registered User
- Jun 4, 2012
- 5,601
- 5,414
apparently Hasso went from running crazy lean scouting & development teams in the DW era, and during the hiring process GMMG got him to pay up for a much bigger staff
so I think Hasso has no issue w/ spending as long as GMMG can sell it
so I think Hasso has no issue w/ spending as long as GMMG can sell it
Yah they will never flat out say what it is, but we have been bottom of the league for a while and that's with a MASSIVE dead cap. Teams like Dallas have 2x more salary into their players than we do. Does Plattner think we have a winning team for 25-26? Because objectively it's not likely. If there isn't a winning team here, then would he spend significantly more and allow GMMG to spend big money? I don't know but I've seen no indication that they will, and GMMG as recently as the TDL suggested that they wouldn't be 'aggressive' in signing anyone this offseason, just active (so more mid tier players, less Marners and Ekblads).
