Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[timorous me]

How about the Dallas 1st, our 2026 2nd, Bystedt and Thrun for Cuylle and K'Andre Miller from the Rangers? They're both RFAs which depresses their trade value. If we luck into Schaefer we can sign Miller to a 2 or 3 year contract then trade him if Schaefer and Dickinson are ready for top 4 minutes by then.

Cuylle-Celebrini-Smith
Eklund-Wennberg-Toffoli
Grundstrom-Dvorak-Graf
Goodrow-Ostapchuk-Dellandrea

Ferraro-Mukhamadullin
Miller-Liljegren
Dickinson-Desharnais

Four of our defensemen would be 6'3" or taller. I can't remember the last time we could say that. Maybe there's a better 3C option out there than Christian Dvorak, just put him in as a placeholder.

I've said it before about Miller, but the same applies to Cuylle: these are both guys that I believe the organization is VERY high on, so while the talk of trading for them makes sense because of the Rangers' financial constraints, I don't see them as looking to trade either of them.

The only complication, really, is Miller's uneven season and how that confuses the situation for his next contract, but there are ways to deal with that. To me, it feels like the Rangers' way to instead figure out how to get rid of a contract of someone older that they're done with (Kreider is most likely) to free up the space for the younger guys they want as part of their core.

So yeah, I'd be all over that trade—but I'd be shocked to see it happen.

 

[Grinner]

I've said it before about Miller, but the same applies to Cuylle: these are both guys that I believe the organization is VERY high on, so while the talk of trading for them makes sense because of the Rangers' financial constraints, I don't see them as looking to trade either of them.

The only complication, really, is Miller's uneven season and how that confuses the situation for his next contract, but there are ways to deal with that. To me, it feels like the Rangers' way to instead figure out how to get rid of a contract of someone older that they're done with (Kreider is most likely) to free up the space for the younger guys they want as part of their core.

So yeah, I'd be all over that trade—but I'd be shocked to see it happen.

And what makes you think the organization is high on both of those players?

 

[timorous me]

And what makes you think the organization is high on both of those players?

I live in New York and watch a lot of their games and, while it's not like I follow them closely like the Sharks, I feel like I have a pretty decent sense of some of these matters with that team.

Obviously I could be wrong, and obviously Dolan could make changes to the front office that change the equation (beyond firing Laviolette, which feels like has to happen and I thought should've happened when Montgomery became available—that was the one way to save the team's season, imo), so we'll see.

 

[Grinner]

I live in New York and watch a lot of their games and, while it's not like I follow them closely like the Sharks, I feel like I have a pretty decent sense of some of these matters with that team.

Obviously I could be wrong, and obviously Dolan could make changes to the front office that change the equation (beyond firing Laviolette, which feels like has to happen and I thought should've happened when Montgomery became available—that was the one way to save the team's season, imo), so we'll see.

My bad. When you wrote the organization is high on them, I thought you ment the Sharks organization. So I was curious. I hope they are high on Miller and sign him long term
On a hope, thst it makes Cuylle susceptible to an offer sheet. I can see why they're high on him Miller, not do much.

I'll certainly accept your sentiments on the Rangers. Given your hockey Fandom and local

 

[gaucholoco3]

He hasn't been given much runway, but you're right that he hasn't taken off yet. However this last stint might be showing something.

I agree he has been better this last stint but he will always have a problem cracking the Sharks top 6. He is 5’10” and provides nothing if not scoring. Even next year he will struggle to make the top 6.

Smith and Celebrini are locks along with Eklund. All 3 are barely 6’0” or shorter. I don’t think they would want 4 players in the top 6 that small. This doesn’t even mention Toffoli who is also sub 6’.

I could see giving him a contract and seeing if he could be effective on the 3rd line with Wenberg and Graf. Though this would require at least one legit top 6 player added to the roster.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I could see the Rangers trying to solve their cap issues in a similar fashion as last year by using Waivers to get rid of Krieder. I would take him for free. He is my favorite FW target if not giving term to a Marner/Bennett type.

 

[Gecklund]

How about the Dallas 1st, our 2026 2nd, Bystedt and Thrun for Cuylle and K'Andre Miller from the Rangers? They're both RFAs which depresses their trade value. If we luck into Schaefer we can sign Miller to a 2 or 3 year contract then trade him if Schaefer and Dickinson are ready for top 4 minutes by then.

Cuylle-Celebrini-Smith
Eklund-Wennberg-Toffoli
Grundstrom-Dvorak-Graf
Goodrow-Ostapchuk-Dellandrea

Ferraro-Mukhamadullin
Miller-Liljegren
Dickinson-Desharnais

Four of our defensemen would be 6'3" or taller. I can't remember the last time we could say that. Maybe there's a better 3C option out there than Christian Dvorak, just put him in as a placeholder.

Miller is basically Ferraro on a better team. Not interested in him at that price at all. Cuylle is fine but we’d be better spent using those picks or spending them on a real top 4 D or 2 C.

 

[Gecklund]

I could see the Rangers trying to solve their cap issues in a similar fashion as last year by using Waivers to get rid of Krieder. I would take him for free. He is my favorite FW target if not giving term to a Marner/Bennett type.

I’d be okay with that but wouldn’t spend much on him. I doubt Rangers use the waiver method just due to his popularity in the room. Most I’d give up is a 3rd+nothing guy

 

[Star Platinum]

He also hasn’t been good enough to prevent Kostin from also getting looks.

Kovalenko’s deployment has made perfect sense to me.

I recommend an immediate optometrist appointment if you think Kostin has ever shown anything this season that warranted him getting playing time over Kovalenko.

 

[Star Platinum]

I’m more than a little confused by how Kovalenko has been handled. He started great with Celebrini and there was clear chemistry there, and then they just went away from it for months? Not surprised he’s doing well again. He can be a good complimentary skill player that helps dig pucks out for other guys.

It made a more sense when all of Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, Toffoli, Granlund, and Zetterlund were healthy and available. But there have been plenty of times this season where one of those guys was on the injured list and some other worthless plug would be slotted into that position instead of Kovalenko despite none of those guys having done anything at all to deserve that opportunity. Things like that make me question Warsofsky's coaching despite our most important season's objectives having been nearly almost completed.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I could see the Rangers trying to solve their cap issues in a similar fashion as last year by using Waivers to get rid of Krieder. I would take him for free. He is my favorite FW target if not giving term to a Marner/Bennett type.

I'd really hate to help Chris Drury wiggle out of another jam, but at least Kreider has a history of being a great player and has the size/speed/physicality that this roster needs badly. Would love to see him on Smith's wing, maybe with Graf. A healthy Kreider-Smith-Graf could be a fun middle-six line, with Wennberg holding down the other.

Grier would have to really do his homework to know that Kreider is at least somewhat healthy and ready to rebound. He's been genuinely bad this year.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I recommend an immediate optometrist appointment if you think Kostin has ever shown anything this season that warranted him getting playing time over Kovalenko.

I’m saying Kovalenko has not done enough to make Kostin (who for size reasons should get a look first) irrelevant.

 

[Star Platinum]

I’m saying Kovalenko has not done enough to make Kostin (who for size reasons should get a look first) irrelevant.

Pardon my French, but f*** size reasons. If you are a big guy that plays small, I don't give a flying f*** about your size. Kovalenko plays bigger than Kostin has ever thought about playing.

 

[Jargon]

Kovalenko was a great fit for Celebrini in the beginning and continues to be, for some bizarre reason he started getting benched/thrown on the 4th line where he obviously did not do well playing with Goodrow and Dellandrea. Now that he’s playing with skill players, he is once again producing. That line has been going gangbusters for us since he was put on it — he’s skilled enough, fast enough and gritty enough to be the F1 on that line while dishing nice passes to his more talented teammates.

As I said before, I think Warsofsky has been generally good in a variety of areas but his treatment of Kovalenko has been bizarre to me.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think there must be something behind the scenes with Kovalenko. Because there's no way he's not one of the best 12 forwards on this team every night.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Pardon my French, but f*** size reasons. If you are a big guy that plays small, I don't give a flying f*** about your size. Kovalenko plays bigger than Kostin has ever thought about playing.

You can say f*** size reasons but you are disregarding a huge part of the game. It is a physical game and no surprise the recent cup winners have been so big.

Kovalenko has absolutely not played well enough to ignore his size and other warts as a player. He might be one of the 12 best but he is absolutely a top 6 or bust player and not close to being one of the top 6 players.

 

[timorous me]

You can say f*** size reasons but you are disregarding a huge part of the game. It is a physical game and no surprise the recent cup winners have been so big.

Kovalenko has absolutely not played well enough to ignore his size and other warts as a player. He might be one of the 12 best but he is absolutely a top 6 or bust player and not close to being one of the top 6 players.

I don't see why he couldn't be used on a 3rd line that has more talent on it; the problem is that for parts of this season, especially after the Granlund trade, Warsofsky has operated as if we don't have a 3rd line and instead have two grindy, unskilled 4th lines.

Look at how much better it's been the past three games with Ostapchuk playing with Gregor and Lund. Not exactly an all-star trio, but they've actually been able to create some offense and haven't been cratered. Why couldn't Kovalenko take on a role like Lund or Gregor has on that line? (I know he's above them right now on the top line, but I mean before that, for all these games where he's been scratched after the Granlund trade.)

 

[gaucholoco3]

I don't see why he couldn't be used on a 3rd line that has more talent on it; the problem is that for parts of this season, especially after the Granlund trade, Warsofsky has operated as if we don't have a 3rd line and instead have two grindy, unskilled 4th lines.

Look at how much better it's been the past three games with Ostapchuk playing with Gregor and Lund. Not exactly an all-star trio, but they've actually been able to create some offense and haven't been cratered. Why couldn't Kovalenko take on a role like Lund or Gregor has on that line? (I know he's above them right now on the top line, but I mean before that, for all these games where he's been scratched after the Granlund trade.)

The Sharks can’t even create 2 scoring lines and now you think they can create a 3rd.

I like Kovalenko in a vacuum but he is a small scoring F1 wing that does not provide any other value. Essentially he is Zetterlund but not as fast. He will look good next to Celebrini but would you rather Eklund in that role.

Kovalenko is the new Zetterlund which is great because he will cost $4 million less per year.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Kovalenko’s size is only an issue because the Sharks have an absolute dearth of it up front. If the Sharks had two solid top 6 forwards that were 6’2” 210lbs and a 3C of about the same size, Kovalenko on a third line wing opposite Graf seems like it could be a thing.

All that being said, I hope he gets a solid look for the rest of the way. I’ve really liked his game at times and think he could be a useful player on a winning team.

 

[coooldude]

Maybe we'll see Kovalenko scratched for Bords I have to say I'm modestly surprised at the call up - I get they have to make room for Musty but I've been fairly confident that Gush and Bords are done with the org. Granted it's 3 meaningless games.

 

[sampler]

Good for bordeleau to get a game a or two. he deserves it...

As for kovalenko... I like him but he is a passer first and need skilled larger mates to succeed. Anyone with Goodrow and dyllandrea is doomed to be -30 with no points. Those two are not NHL players right now. Grunsdstrom is a tiny bit better but also borderline not an NHLer.

Improving the bottom 6 is a key area of need. One of the ways to do that is to add a few more guys at the top and force guys like Wennberg/Kovalenko/Graf as your third line. then guys like Ostapchuk, Bystedt, Giles on the 4th line.

I am personally tired of watching goodrow and Dyllandrea continue to soak up minuses, take penalties, provide no value, attempt to PK but do so terribly... I know Goodie is apparently a great glue guy, but on the ice... Oooof...

 

[timorous me]

The Sharks can’t even create 2 scoring lines and now you think they can create a 3rd.

Relatively speaking. Better than the zero-offense crap we'd been seeing from our "3rd line" before that.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I’m saying Kovalenko has not done enough to make Kostin (who for size reasons should get a look first) irrelevant.

I mean he has. The production difference shows that. The fact that both had sat out for over a week before last Monday's game where Kovalenko drew in. Kostin doesn't use his size enough to justify the production loss especially with the opportunities both have gotten with Celebrini and Smith. Kovalenko has produced at a 30 point clip for a whole season. Kostin never followed up when he pulled that off in Edmonton. Kovalenko should warrant an opportunity to do so in a second NHL season but he's also in a very replaceable spot because what are either of them without the top six opportunities at this stage? Nothing. If they're replaceable now, replace them. If you had to pick one, the choice is pretty obviously Kovalenko.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I mean he has. The production difference shows that. The fact that both had sat out for over a week before last Monday's game where Kovalenko drew in. Kostin doesn't use his size enough to justify the production loss especially with the opportunities both have gotten with Celebrini and Smith. Kovalenko has produced at a 30 point clip for a whole season. Kostin never followed up when he pulled that off in Edmonton. Kovalenko should warrant an opportunity to do so in a second NHL season but he's also in a very replaceable spot because what are either of them without the top six opportunities at this stage? Nothing. If they're replaceable now, replace them. If you had to pick one, the choice is pretty obviously Kovalenko.

I agree they are both replaceable and Kovalenko is better right now. He still has not done much and only looks good next a highly skilled player who is also responsible defensively (so Celebrini and …) do you want Celebrini playing with Kovalenko or Eklund. I would rather Celebrini get a better linemate than Kovalenko. So if he only looks good next to Celebrini but we want a better linemate than Kovalenko for Celebrini then he has should not get the opportunity.

I’m fine if he comes back as a placeholder for a wing spot that one of Musty/Chernyshov/Halttunen/Lund take. Anything more than that and I would be disappointed with the roster construction.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I agree they are both replaceable and Kovalenko is better right now. He still has not done much and only looks good next a highly skilled player who is also responsible defensively (so Celebrini and …) do you want Celebrini playing with Kovalenko or Eklund. I would rather Celebrini get a better linemate than Kovalenko. So if he only looks good next to Celebrini but we want a better linemate than Kovalenko for Celebrini then he has should not get the opportunity.

I’m fine if he comes back as a placeholder for a wing spot that one of Musty/Chernyshov/Halttunen/Lund take. Anything more than that and I would be disappointed with the roster construction.

Looking good next to a highly skilled Celebrini is preferable to not doing so like with Kostin. I think that warrants more of a look. I would prefer that to be Eklund's spot if the other two lines are functional. I think Kovalenko could also fit on a functional 3rd line with Wennberg and Graf. That would require building a 2nd line around either Smith or Toffoli. Considering how it is for Sharks to get really anyone externally, they may have to ask Celebrini to carry someone that isn't that good but can look good with him.

I'm not making offseason moves banking on those rookie prospects taking an NHL lineup spot. And the Sharks could use a middle-six center at the least and probably another top-nine caliber forward. Two if we're thinking that we need to replace Kovalenko because he's not a good fit in the room. With Wennberg only signed through next year, if we end up sellers at the deadline again, there will be an open top-nine spot for a rookie prospect pulling a Graf to get an opportunity. That and injuries have pretty consistently given kids opportunities. I'm not worried about them for next season.