Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

There is only one option for Captain after Couture. It is 100% Celebrini. He is already the heart and souls of this team and the best player on the team. There is nobody on the team that can question his work ethic and desire to win. If you think it is too much for him (which I do not) then just have no captain till he is ready.

The only argument against is it's still gonna be a couple more seasons of misery and he'll be the one that has to answer the questions. I'd rather him just not have those duties for the timebeing so he can concentrate on his on-ice game.

 

[gaucholoco3]

The only argument against is it's still gonna be a couple more seasons of misery and he'll be the one that has to answer the questions. I'd rather him just not have those duties for the timebeing so he can concentrate on his on-ice game.

That’s fair. I just don’t think there is a player in the locker room you could justifiably give it to over him.

 

[Gecklund]

Toffoli is a pretty one dimensional player. He's a goal-scorer for hire.

But not like Drouin. Toffoli if he’s not scoring he’s still doing other stuff. He’s not great defensively but he gives effort. Drouin, Donato, etc are literally just more of what we got rid of with Duclair, Barabanov, Labanc, etc (although I would like to get Duclair back since it seems like he’s on his way out of NYI)

 

[Juxtaposer]

Toffoli is a bit one-dimensional but you don't name a guy captain strictly for their on-ice performance. You name a guy captain because he's a good communicator, because people are drawn to him, because he knows what to say in the right moments. Toffoli may not be the fiery Mark Stone-esque competitor that some people want, but he's won two Cups in significant roles and he's clearly beloved in the room. He's been there, done that.

 

[TheBeard]

But not like Drouin. Toffoli if he’s not scoring he’s still doing other stuff. He’s not great defensively but he gives effort. Drouin, Donato, etc are literally just more of what we got rid of with Duclair, Barabanov, Labanc, etc (although I would like to get Duclair back since it seems like he’s on his way out of NYI)

No. I want nothing to do with Drouin. Donato I like, but he's staying in Chicago.

 

[TheBeard]

That’s fair. I just don’t think there is a player in the locker room you could justifiably give it to over him.

You'll probably disagree, but Ferraro.

 

[weastern bias]

Toffoli is a bit one-dimensional but you don't name a guy captain strictly for their on-ice performance. You name a guy captain because he's a good communicator, because people are drawn to him, because he knows what to say in the right moments. Toffoli may not be the fiery Mark Stone-esque competitor that some people want, but he's won two Cups in significant roles and he's clearly beloved in the room. He's been there, done that.

Not for nothing, but Toffoli has one one cup playing the 10th most average TOI amongst forwards on that team while being 7th in points and 4th in goals

He's a good player with a history of winning, but he wasn't exactly a catalyst for his teams' playoff success, he was a complimentary contributor

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I still don't understand the Balcers buyout beyond Grier simply not liking him as a player, but that buyout was 3 years ago before Grier's vision had come into any coherent view from the fans' perspective, they hasn't even admitted they were rebuilding yet

I don't think moves made in the summer of 2022 are indicative of the team's current thought process, that was an awkward summer with a sudden transition between two different front offices that ended up having completely different visions on how to build the team

It's not meant to be indicative of the team's current thought process. There's nothing indicative of the team's current thought process that should lead anyone to believe that a buyout is not on the table though. All that it is meant to show is that Grier will use it if it makes sense to him and there are reasons to think it makes sense to buy out either of those guys at the least. It doesn't mean he will but I really doubt that they would bury either in the AHL to run out the clock. And if either are still on this team for next season, the effort to improve will likely be insufficient. The team is not good enough to have to carry so many passengers.

I think the best course of action with the "C" is to leave it vacant until a legitimate captain emerges

I've always maintained that I hate giving young franchise faces the captaincy for marketing purposes, children do not lead adults as the adults don't take them seriously, it puts an undue pressure and strain on someone like Celebrini to become a leader when he really should still be learning how to be a premier player first, let him ruminate and if they REALLY feel he's emerging prematurely just give him an "A"

I also don't like Toffoli as captain, I don't want the guy who happily signed with the worst team in hockey so he could live at home comfortably while he drinks beers with children to be the tone-setter for the lockerroom, just let an actual tent-pole player emerge, there's no reason to rush into a decision

Ironically, the Couture situation gives the team cover for this, "we have a captain, he's working hard toward recovering from injury" allows the team to avoid tacitly admitting that no active player on this roster is fit to wear the "C", we get 2 bonus years where we can let the lockerroom sort itself out

Hell, maybe the next captain isn't even drafted yet, it doesn't have to be someone we've already seen on the team, no one on the current roster has ever lead the Sharks to a remotely passable performance, just let the team grow and a leader will emerge naturally

*DISCLAIMER*
I fully believe Celebrini will one day be captain and will do a good job, just please don't make a 19 or 20 year old wear the "C" just because he's talented and marketable, let the leaders lead and the players play

This wouldn't be about giving it to Celebrini for marketing. That's just going to be a part of it regardless. Celebrini is pretty clearly the foundation of the team and the leader of the team at this stage. Recognizing that shouldn't be an issue for something that doesn't really mean that much in the grand scheme of things. If someone comes along to be Pavs to his Thornton, you can cross that bridge when you get to it. I think leaning on Couture's injury is just an excuse to not turn the page and getting on with it. He's the identity of this team moving forward and he is a legitimate leader. There have been legitimate young leaders before him that have found success leading at a young age. Age isn't really an issue here, imo.

Buying out a player to then only spend to the cap floor is a great way to enrage the players union and agents. A buyout is literally taking away guaranteed money from a player something that the union takes seriously. It is accepted when the team then uses that new cap space to provide more jobs for players and spends the savings. The Sharks would be taking guaranteed money away from players and not spending the savings (since they need to hit the cap floor anyways).

This is especially enraging to the union when there is another method that gives the player more than his NHL pay (no escrow) and in the case of the Sharks he would not even have to move by being placed on waivers.

The only way a buyout makes sense would be if Goodrow specifically asked for it in which case if I was the Sharks I would say “agree to mutual termination”. Other than that it makes zero sense to buyout Goodrow for roster space when he can go on waivers. If he had a NMC then sure because waivers is not an option.

I don't think you're quite thinking through the buyout concern. What happens when a player is bought out? They get 2/3 of their guaranteed money and the team is open to spending on another player getting guaranteed money to fill in. That is pretty standard operating procedure for this business. I've yet to hear any union member or agent get up in arms about a normal buyout occurring. If there's injuries around the buyout, that's one thing. Buying someone out because they can't hack it anymore brings none of these concerns up at all. That is completely made up on your part. The Sharks would still be using the new cap space since they're below the floor as it is and would be below the floor with any future buyout.

Putting someone like Goodrow or Vlasic on waivers will happen if they go through the buyout process. That concern is meaningless. The odds of a mutual termination in either case is next to nil. It's time to move on from them and nobody is claiming them off waivers. Burying them in the minors is significantly less likely for established players that are over the hill. They eat the buyout and let them find an opportunity elsewhere.

Because Toffoli and Wennberg are not as one dimensional players as the rest. And there was less cap space around last year. And Toffoli only wanted to come to the Bay Area. And Wennberg is younger than Duchene so probably has another contract or two in him after us.

They're similar in terms of what sort of dimensions they bring to their respective games. Regardless, the actual caliber of play between them is not a big deal to worry about overpaying them in cap hit for a short duration. We also have expansion to prepare for and having them as possible draft eligible players while helping the team be better is worth the investment, imo.

 

[Sendhelplease]

I want us to sign Kunin in free agency and make him the captain just to Sharks HF Boards meltdown

 

[Juxtaposer]

Not for nothing, but Toffoli has one one cup playing the 10th most average TOI amongst forwards on that team while being 7th in points and 4th in goals

He's a good player with a history of winning, but he wasn't exactly a catalyst for his teams' playoff success, he was a complimentary contributor

You're right that he only was on the 2014 team, but where you say "seventh in scoring" you could easily frame it as "tied fifth in scoring for forwards" for the run.

I didn't say he was a catalyst, I said he won "in a significant role", which "top-6 forward" absolutely was. I meant that specifically to differentiate between guys who won in fairly meaningless depth roles.

 

[Grinner]

Logan has been in limbo for a while now and seems to have no way out.

He knows he's not really a part of the team moving forward

 

[fasterthanlight]

We don't know what's really going on, but I would say that in this day and age of social media unfollowing/removing everything that reminds you of something that's been your whole life in particular probably means moving on at all cost.

Edit: Couture does follow SJ on IG, I don't if that's changed recently.

not saying you believe this, but: alternative explanations to "he hates the sharks and is being a baby" (undertone of some other posts 'round here) include:

- he doesn't want to follow as much hockey stuff because he's struggling with mental health
- he doesn't want to follow as much hockey stuff because he's transitioning his IG into a personal account but still loves the sharks organization
- sharks management told him to dissociate his account for some weird legal or business reason
- he wanted to be more involved in the team, but was told no, and he's bitter at current management
...

not singling you out, but it just seems odd the vitriol some have for him (?). Seems like he's going through some tough medical stuff, but that's about all we know. I'm not even really a huge couture fan or anything, just odd that people are frustrated with him without more context

 

[sharski]

obv not same as being on the ice, but I was under the impression that Couture was spending a lot of time with the team in practice/meetings etc to keep that connection strong?... surprising that things would go sour in a way that he'd seem to want to distance from the team

 

[gaucholoco3]

You'll probably disagree, but Ferraro.

I can understand the argument and if he was signed long term I would be open to it but that would be my first disqualification for Ferraro.

I just think no one has a stronger work ethic than Celebrini who has to be dragged out of the rink. Nobody is a better player and has as much on ice impact as Celebrini. I just think he has the credibility and even a Toffoli or Goodrow who have won cups would go to war with Celebrini. He has that special “it” factor that gravitates people towards him.

Remember he has been around professional athletes for a long time and has years of wisdom from Warriors players he can consult with.

 

[TheBeard]

I can understand the argument and if he was signed long term I would be open to it but that would be my first disqualification for Ferraro.

I just think no one has a stronger work ethic than Celebrini who has to be dragged out of the rink. Nobody is a better player and has as much on ice impact as Celebrini. I just think he has the credibility and even a Toffoli or Goodrow who have won cups would go to war with Celebrini. He has that special “it” factor that gravitates people towards him.

Remember he has been around professional athletes for a long time and has years of wisdom from Warriors players he can consult with.

I agree on Ferraro. If he stayed longer he'd be the perfect transition captain. He's earned it. Been here a long time, consistently puts his body out there. But yeah not knowing his future makes that different.

In terms of Celebrini, 100% he will be the captain sooner rather than later, but for now there's just no need to strap the C on him. This season was easy in that, like Bedard last year, you get drafted, you come out and have fun and enjoy the new experience without pressure. But once next season starts, that "new car smell" wears off and the novelty of just being in the show doesn't mean much. Wel'll see a fair amount of moments of frustrations from him. I don't see why he needs to deal with that and the added pressure of being the mouthpiece as well.

 

[Star Platinum]

I want us to sign Kunin in free agency and make him the captain just to Sharks HF Boards meltdown

You are a cruel human

 

[gaucholoco3]

I agree on Ferraro. If he stayed longer he'd be the perfect transition captain. He's earned it. Been here a long time, consistently puts his body out there. But yeah not knowing his future makes that different.

In terms of Celebrini, 100% he will be the captain sooner rather than later, but for now there's just no need to strap the C on him. This season was easy in that, like Bedard last year, you get drafted, you come out and have fun and enjoy the new experience without pressure. But once next season starts, that "new car smell" wears off and the novelty of just being in the show doesn't mean much. Wel'll see a fair amount of moments of frustrations from him. I don't see why he needs to deal with that and the added pressure of being the mouthpiece as well.

I do think he would thrive in that pressure, but I think the staff will know him better than we do and accurately gauge if he is ready for it.

 

[Jargon]

Couture follows both the Sharks and Macklin, Eklund, etc. on IG. I'm not sure how much Sharks stuff he used to have on IG but he definitely has no more Sharks-related pictures but actually he has no him-playing-hockey photos at all. It's possible he's going to announce his retirement and wants to transition his social media to something more personal (or mentally getting ready to pursue a new life).

Either way, let's all relax, he's dealing with a ton and I'm sure whatever is happening is tough on him and his family.

 

[slocal]

Nah that was hilarious

Makes me wonder what ever happened to Phu

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I agree on Ferraro. If he stayed longer he'd be the perfect transition captain. He's earned it. Been here a long time, consistently puts his body out there. But yeah not knowing his future makes that different.

In terms of Celebrini, 100% he will be the captain sooner rather than later, but for now there's just no need to strap the C on him. This season was easy in that, like Bedard last year, you get drafted, you come out and have fun and enjoy the new experience without pressure. But once next season starts, that "new car smell" wears off and the novelty of just being in the show doesn't mean much. Wel'll see a fair amount of moments of frustrations from him. I don't see why he needs to deal with that and the added pressure of being the mouthpiece as well.

He’s already the mouthpiece. There isn’t anything about the C that he doesn’t already do that we really need to worry about. It’s a formality at whatever point they decide to move on from Couture as captain in the official sense. He was drafted in large part because he’s shown himself to be elite as a leader too.

 

[Hodge]

Vlasic must be amazing in the locker room according to @TheBeard's logic

 

[TheBeard]

Vlasic must be amazing in the locker room according to @TheBeard's logic

He got the nod by default after Grier traded away the first 9 candidates.

 

[weastern bias]

Guy who endured recent personal hardships and is a vet that is valued by his organization is nominated for the Masterton

Now here's Tom with the weather. . .

 

[Juxtaposer]

Vlasic's gigantic ego persisting through a season of healthy scratches on the worst defense in the league truly is miraculous and worthy of award.

 

[ThePlanet]

Guy who endured recent personal hardships and is a vet that is valued by his organization is nominated for the Masterton

Now here's Tom with the weather. . .

Thank you. This board always needs more Bill Hicks references.