Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

Pretty sure guys don't get bought out of huge contracts after putting up a 40+ goal season unless there's something going on under the hood.

The numbers I care about are age and contract size. Duchene could fall off a cliff at any minute. We can do better.

Yeah. Trotz has done nothing but make stellar decisions since coming back to Nashville.

 

[702SHARK]

Apparently Couture has purged his IG of anything sharks related and unfollowed the team page..

 

[vortexx]

Couture yeeted all his sharks pics and unfollowed the team on IG

Not saying the team will buy out his contract but the relationship is ded

The only reason I can maybe see something like this happened is because the Sharks approached him and want to give the C to someone else next season. I don’t see Couture retiring and giving up the money, no reason for the Sharks to buy him out or waive him, and no way anyone is trading for him. I’m just surprised he would act this way, seems reasonable for the Sharks to want to give the C to someone else.

 

[Gecklund]

They won’t. I don’t think any of them outside of Carolina has the space.

Oh I can pull this up as an excuse to not work! Let’s look at teams that need a 2C:

MTL: 11.5M in space with no one to really sign except Heineman, Dvorak, Armia and includes Price’s 10.5M hit.

DAL: 13.6ish in space with lots of FAs but guys like Granlund, Benn, Ceci, Duchene, Dadonov so can definitely resign Duchene.

VAN: 18M in space but will need to resign guys like Boeser, Suter, etc but could probably afford Duchene

MIN: 19.5 in space with only really Rossi to resign and a few depth guys.

UTA: 20 in space with no one needing big raises

TOR: 21 in space but with Marner JT and Knies to resign so would probably require one of those to walk

CAR: 38 in space with really no one to resign that requires big raises

WPG: 38 in space but lots of guys to resign in Ehlers, Pionk, Vilardi, etc so could probably make it work but might be tough

Basically all these teams are closer to the playoffs and for a 35 year old Duchene that has never won a cup (right?) I would assume he’d take a bit of a discount to go to a contender. Like can one of them offer say 6M? I’d take that over our 8.5-9 offer.

 

[Hodge]

Just f***ing retire already. Doug Wilson's property and assets should be liquidated to pay for the rest of Couture's contract. Maybe Jr. could serve as Couture's live-in butler and nanny if his dad can't front the remaining $16 million.

 

[weastern bias]

We literally bought out Knyzhov this past offseason for no other reason but he couldn't hang anymore after his injury. The team doesn't need a salary justification to buy out any player that isn't NHL caliber anymore. They don't need a salary justification to buy out Goodrow or Vlasic. Both of them are very clearly not NHL caliber players anymore and the team doesn't need them anymore. And the A stuff doesn't mean a whole lot to me when they traded a couple of them for draft picks. I don't think having an A for one season here has Goodrow on some pedestal that he can't be sent packing when we've already sent others at that level packing too.

Knyzhov was placed on unconditional waivers and he mutually agreed to have his contract terminated, he wasn't bought out in the traditional sense as there were no cap implications to removing him from the roster

Also, he was purged so we could free #71, lol

I think the Couture situation is sensitive, it seems like he is having a lot of difficulty coming to terms with the sudden end of his career, he's only 36 years old so I doubt he was emotionally prepared for it to just end out of nowhere like this and I think the team is running cover to try and protect him from scrutiny while he's going through such a difficult time

 

[TheBeard]

think the Couture situation is sensitive, it seems like he is having a lot of difficulty coming to terms with the sudden end of his career, he's only 36 years old so I doubt he was emotionally prepared for it to just end out of nowhere like this and I think the team is running cover to try and protect him from scrutiny while he's going through such a difficult time

He probably got super jealous of Tyler’s relationship with the kids and the sleepover, and he’s just angry in general this is how he’s going out.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

So a guy that’s going to cost 8-10M and a bunch of one dimensional guys that Grier just spent an offseason getting rid of

How is it any different than bringing in Toffoli and Wennberg? Neither are super dynamic players at this stage but they're bringing useful elements to the team. Other free agents or trade acquisitions can do the same at a higher price tag on short term deals to get us through the increases until we pay out Eklund, Celebrini, and Smith. If we expect this team to take another step in a competitive direction and we're required to spend a certain amount anyway, overpaying someone on a short deal to fill a spot makes sense. Any of them in the 2-4 year range can fail spectacularly and it still wouldn't have that much long term damage to the team's cap outlook moving forward. I would much rather take that shot than keep Goodrow and Vlasic around to eat cap for worse than nothing.

Knyzhov was placed on unconditional waivers and he mutually agreed to have his contract terminated, he wasn't bought out in the traditional sense as there were no cap implications to removing him from the roster

Also, he was purged so we could free #71, lol

I think the Couture situation is sensitive, it seems like he is having a lot of difficulty coming to terms with the sudden end of his career, he's only 36 years old so I doubt he was emotionally prepared for it to just end out of nowhere like this and I think the team is running cover to try and protect him from scrutiny while he's going through such a difficult time

We also bought out Balcers for no discernable reason during this teardown rebuild phase. I'm just saying it's absolutely a legitimate option to get rid of players that are no longer useful to this team's competitive status moving forward.

As for Couture, I don't blame him for having difficulty and being sensitive. I have no problems with the team running cover for him. However, at some point, the best thing for the team is to have a new captain. There's really only two options for a captain for next season and it's Toffoli or Celebrini.

 

[weastern bias]

We also bought out Balcers for no discernable reason during this teardown rebuild phase. I'm just saying it's absolutely a legitimate option to get rid of players that are no longer useful to this team's competitive status moving forward.

I still don't understand the Balcers buyout beyond Grier simply not liking him as a player, but that buyout was 3 years ago before Grier's vision had come into any coherent view from the fans' perspective, they hasn't even admitted they were rebuilding yet

I don't think moves made in the summer of 2022 are indicative of the team's current thought process, that was an awkward summer with a sudden transition between two different front offices that ended up having completely different visions on how to build the team

 

[Cas]

Balcers buyout also saved a huge portion of his cap hit (which was of course very small, and I don't remember how tight against the cap we were at that time). It may have been a case of "we don't value this player and we could use the extra $800,000."

 

[weastern bias]

As for Couture, I don't blame him for having difficulty and being sensitive. I have no problems with the team running cover for him. However, at some point, the best thing for the team is to have a new captain. There's really only two options for a captain for next season and it's Toffoli or Celebrini.

I think the best course of action with the "C" is to leave it vacant until a legitimate captain emerges

I've always maintained that I hate giving young franchise faces the captaincy for marketing purposes, children do not lead adults as the adults don't take them seriously, it puts an undue pressure and strain on someone like Celebrini to become a leader when he really should still be learning how to be a premier player first, let him ruminate and if they REALLY feel he's emerging prematurely just give him an "A"

I also don't like Toffoli as captain, I don't want the guy who happily signed with the worst team in hockey so he could live at home comfortably while he drinks beers with children to be the tone-setter for the lockerroom, just let an actual tent-pole player emerge, there's no reason to rush into a decision

Ironically, the Couture situation gives the team cover for this, "we have a captain, he's working hard toward recovering from injury" allows the team to avoid tacitly admitting that no active player on this roster is fit to wear the "C", we get 2 bonus years where we can let the lockerroom sort itself out

Hell, maybe the next captain isn't even drafted yet, it doesn't have to be someone we've already seen on the team, no one on the current roster has ever lead the Sharks to a remotely passable performance, just let the team grow and a leader will emerge naturally

*DISCLAIMER*
I fully believe Celebrini will one day be captain and will do a good job, just please don't make a 19 or 20 year old wear the "C" just because he's talented and marketable, let the leaders lead and the players play

 

[Patty Ice]

Maybe Jr. could serve as Couture's live-in butler

Wasn't that the plot to Jerry's sitcom on Seinfeld?

You are onto something there.

 

[fasterthanlight]

we don't have any information about why logan couture is doing what he's doing; why assume anything negative about him personally?

 

[TheBeard]

Balcers buyout also saved a huge portion of his cap hit (which was of course very small, and I don't remember how tight against the cap we were at that time). It may have been a case of "we don't value this player and we could use the extra $800,000."

Grier probably gave Hasso a heads-up that the next few years are going to result in sparse crowds and sub-optimal revenue, and Hasso asked him to trim as much fat for the moment as he could.

 

[gaucholoco3]

You could but it doesn't mean you can't buy them out as part of the process. The cap ceiling is irrelevant to the buyout conversation.

Buying out a player to then only spend to the cap floor is a great way to enrage the players union and agents. A buyout is literally taking away guaranteed money from a player something that the union takes seriously. It is accepted when the team then uses that new cap space to provide more jobs for players and spends the savings. The Sharks would be taking guaranteed money away from players and not spending the savings (since they need to hit the cap floor anyways).

This is especially enraging to the union when there is another method that gives the player more than his NHL pay (no escrow) and in the case of the Sharks he would not even have to move by being placed on waivers.

The only way a buyout makes sense would be if Goodrow specifically asked for it in which case if I was the Sharks I would say “agree to mutual termination”. Other than that it makes zero sense to buyout Goodrow for roster space when he can go on waivers. If he had a NMC then sure because waivers is not an option.

 

[Gecklund]

How is it any different than bringing in Toffoli and Wennberg? Neither are super dynamic players at this stage but they're bringing useful elements to the team. Other free agents or trade acquisitions can do the same at a higher price tag on short term deals to get us through the increases until we pay out Eklund, Celebrini, and Smith. If we expect this team to take another step in a competitive direction and we're required to spend a certain amount anyway, overpaying someone on a short deal to fill a spot makes sense. Any of them in the 2-4 year range can fail spectacularly and it still wouldn't have that much long term damage to the team's cap outlook moving forward. I would much rather take that shot than keep Goodrow and Vlasic around to eat cap for worse than nothing.

We also bought out Balcers for no discernable reason during this teardown rebuild phase. I'm just saying it's absolutely a legitimate option to get rid of players that are no longer useful to this team's competitive status moving forward.

As for Couture, I don't blame him for having difficulty and being sensitive. I have no problems with the team running cover for him. However, at some point, the best thing for the team is to have a new captain. There's really only two options for a captain for next season and it's Toffoli or Celebrini.

Because Toffoli and Wennberg are not as one dimensional players as the rest. And there was less cap space around last year. And Toffoli only wanted to come to the Bay Area. And Wennberg is younger than Duchene so probably has another contract or two in him after us.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I also don't like Toffoli as captain, I don't want the guy who happily signed with the worst team in hockey so he could live at home comfortably while he drinks beers with children to be the tone-setter for the lockerroom, just let an actual tent-pole player emerge, there's no reason to rush into a decision

I don't see it that way. I see it as him choosing to be a mentor for a promising young team, and he's active in the community and has been since the day he got here. Sure he wanted security with this contract, but it's not like he's never won a Cup before.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Toffoli f***ing rocks and would be a perfect interim captain until Celebrini's ready. Toff has three more years on his contract, which feels like a great timeline to get to Celebrini. Toffoli could still re-sign after and just give the captaincy to Mack like Tavares gave it to Matthews.

 

[mogambomoroo]

we don't have any information about why logan couture is doing what he's doing; why assume anything negative about him personally?

We don't know what's really going on, but I would say that in this day and age of social media unfollowing/removing everything that reminds you of something that's been your whole life in particular probably means moving on at all cost.

Edit: Couture does follow SJ on IG, I don't if that's changed recently.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'm choosing to give Couture the benefit of the doubt btw. He's going through a lot and he deserves some latitude from Sharks fans. I hope he chooses to retire officially at the end of the season and takes some time for himself and his family, then rejoins the org in a different role in a few years.

 

[Hodge]

At least this Logan Couture social media controversy didn't involve him tweeting out a link to a porn site.

 

[Pavelski2112]

At least this Logan Couture social media controversy didn't involve him tweeting out a link to a porn site.

Nah that was hilarious

 

[weastern bias]

I like Toffoli, he's the "cool uncle" on this team

I would not let my "cool uncle" brothers babysit, I'm much more comfortable letting them decide what drinks to bring to a potluck, I don't want them picking out diaper creams and preventing head injuries

I don't know what he's proven to show he can lead a team this down bad to an improvement, he's a complimentary goal scoring winger who's a good hang, I'm not sold that he's a lockerroom leader who can galvanize his team and inspire losers to become winners

 

[TheBeard]

Because Toffoli and Wennberg are not as one dimensional players as the rest. And there was less cap space around last year. And Toffoli only wanted to come to the Bay Area. And Wennberg is younger than Duchene so probably has another contract or two in him after us.

Toffoli is a pretty one dimensional player. He's a goal-scorer for hire.

 

[gaucholoco3]

There is only one option for Captain after Couture. It is 100% Celebrini. He is already the heart and souls of this team and the best player on the team. There is nobody on the team that can question his work ethic and desire to win. If you think it is too much for him (which I do not) then just have no captain till he is ready.