Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

Has Grier been wrong about the players he inherited, though? Not a single dumped prospect has turned into anything or looks likely to, and the guys Grier has kept have at least had promise up to a point (Cardwell). I see no indication that Eklund is on the outs.

The problem is that the Wilson team were running on reputation and fumes by the end, drafting myopically with an eye for skilled guys who would turn into home runs (virtually all of which would flop because they didn't have enough skill) and totally unable to face up to the reality that the team was in the dumpster and needed to be stripped to the foundation and rebuilt from scratch. There was almost nothing left worth keeping.

Well it’s not like they had a lot of high-end draft picks. None of the guys remaining may have a future with the squad but I don’t see the point of playing older guys like Kostin and Gregor and even Goodrow over kids for one final audition whether as a future piece or a future trade commodity. Especially a team starved for offense. At this point the whole notion of “deserving” doesn’t really apply to this club.

If the team is insistent on tanking then either these kids would have been as bad as Hodge says which only helps tank or they show something, which probably still doesn’t make the team passable.

 

[Cas]

Well it’s not like they had a lot of high-end draft picks. None of the guys remaining may have a future with the squad but I don’t see the point of playing older guys like Kostin and Gregor and even Goodrow over kids for one final audition whether as a future piece or a future trade commodity. Especially a team starved for offense. At this point the whole notion of “deserving” doesn’t really apply to this club.

If the team is insistent on tanking then either these kids would have been as bad as Hodge says which only helps tank or they show something, which probably still doesn’t make the team passable.

I would rather play people with a potential future too, but it's not really a huge deal in the end.

 

[Hodge]

Well it’s not like they had a lot of high-end draft picks. None of the guys remaining may have a future with the squad but I don’t see the point of playing older guys like Kostin and Gregor and even Goodrow over kids for one final audition whether as a future piece or a future trade commodity. Especially a team starved for offense. At this point the whole notion of “deserving” doesn’t really apply to this club.

If the team is insistent on tanking then either these kids would have been as bad as Hodge says which only helps tank or they show something, which probably still doesn’t make the team passable.

They've already proven they're as bad as I say, which is why I've been saying it. Gushchin got a 10 game audition at the start of the season where he was completely useless. Bordeleau, as a one-way offense only winger, can't even crack 0.7 points per game as a 23 year old in his third AHL season. Even if we had the capacity to call up forwards, Cardwell and Giles would be ahead of these two.

 

[TheBeard]

They've already proven they're as bad as I say, which is why I've been saying it. Gushchin got a 10 game audition at the start of the season where he was completely useless. Bordeleau, as a one-way offense only winger, can't even crack 0.7 points per game as a 23 year old in his third AHL season. Even if we had the capacity to call up forwards, Cardwell and Giles would be ahead of these two.

10 games you say? I remember Eklund looking simply lost in his first two brief stints with the club. I remember everyone looking inept in the first 20 games of this year. Frankly I don’t think any player should be judged based on what we saw from this team in the first quarter.

Claiming Giles should be ahead blows my mind. The dude will be a career AHL grinder going forward. He hasn’t earned a goddamn thing.

 

[Hodge]

10 games you say? I remember Eklund looking simply lost in his first two brief stints with the club. I remember everyone looking inept in the first 20 games of this year. Frankly I don’t think any player should be judged based on what we saw from this team in the first quarter.

Yeah, Eklund having a rough start to his NHL career at 18 (when he still scored 4 times as many points as Gushchin did earlier this season) is totally the same as Gushchin looking worthless at 22.

 

[CHALUPA]

They couldn't get a crack at the NHL on the worst team in the league. What makes anyone think they'll have better luck elsewhere?

Not arguing for it. I think it’s most likely Goose heads to Russia and Bordeleau ends up as the next Poturalski, but wouldn’t be surprised if they get a chance somewhere first.

Just pointing out the post’s likely intent

 

[Jargon]

I have no idea why Grier seems so eager to purge all of Junior's draft picks. Just look at this treasure trove of hidden gems.

View attachment 1006750

You packaged your posts over the years in real annoying smugness and aggressiveness but man, were you right. Other than Eklund (maybe Caldwell?) that drafting is brutal.

 

[Jargon]

10 games you say? I remember Eklund looking simply lost in his first two brief stints with the club. I remember everyone looking inept in the first 20 games of this year. Frankly I don’t think any player should be judged based on what we saw from this team in the first quarter.

Claiming Giles should be ahead blows my mind. The dude will be a career AHL grinder going forward. He hasn’t earned a goddamn thing.

I always wanted Goose to succeed but Eklund looked leagues better than both him and Bords in his call-ups, even his first one at 18. You could see the star power immediately.

 

[Lebanezer]

You packaged your posts over the years in real annoying smugness and aggressiveness but man, were you right. Other than Eklund (maybe Caldwell?) that drafting is brutal.

To be fair, the Sharks drafting has been total dogshit since 2012.

 

[TheBeard]

I always wanted Goose to succeed but Eklund looked leagues better than both him and Bords in his call-ups, even his first one at 18. You could see the star power immediately.

I remember Eklund looking lost and out of his element. Completely understandable though as a teen on a declining team with Boughner and Quinn at the helm.

I thought Bordeleau looked fantastic in his first callip.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Will Luke Kunin even get an NHL contract next season?

 

[coooldude]

Will Luke Kunin even get an NHL contract next season?

He really flies around out there

 

[Cas]

He really flies around out there

Flies usually follow corpses.

 

[Star Platinum]

It's a coin flip if he ever does, though

So, a 3.125% chance of becoming an NHL player?

 

[Star Platinum]

Will Luke Kunin even get an NHL contract next season?

Yes

 

[tiburon12]

You packaged your posts over the years in real annoying smugness and aggressiveness but man, were you right. Other than Eklund (maybe Caldwell?) that drafting is brutal.

Hodge is smart. They find the most statistically likely thing to happen and hold firm on it becoming reality, that way if the odds pull through they were right; if something statistically unlikely happens, then they have an out. While many of us put logic aside and try to have some fun with our posts and predictions, they are the ever-present voice of reality reminding us of the odds.

Take a look at the draft results they shared again and you'll find the that the only statistical "miss" was Merkely, and there are tons of caveats around him as he was boom/bust.

Now this isn't to say that I think Jr did a good job - he didnt. But it is to say that having a hard and firm opinion that is entirely based in what is statistically most likely to happen isn't bold or daring, even it is said with confidence.

So keep that in mind when we are hoping that some Cuda guys get games and Hodge quashes those thoughts - they will always hold firm with what is statistically more likely to happen. It's kinda frustrating when we;re on a semi-serious board that likes to proffer loose to stimulate conversation, but it is always good to have them be our reality check (this is a sincere comment).

 

[mogambomoroo]

Hodge is smart. They find the most statistically likely thing to happen and hold firm on it becoming reality, that way if the odds pull through they were right; if something statistically unlikely happens, then they have an out. While many of us put logic aside and try to have some fun with our posts and predictions, they are the ever-present voice of reality reminding us of the odds.

Take a look at the draft results they shared again and you'll find the that the only statistical "miss" was Merkely, and there are tons of caveats around him as he was boom/bust.

Now this isn't to say that I think Jr did a good job - he didnt. But it is to say that having a hard and firm opinion that is entirely based in what is statistically most likely to happen isn't bold or daring, even it is said with confidence.

So keep that in mind when we are hoping that some Cuda guys get games and Hodge quashes those thoughts - they will always hold firm with what is statistically more likely to happen. It's kinda frustrating when we;re on a semi-serious board that likes to proffer loose to stimulate conversation, but it is always good to have them be our reality check (this is a sincere comment).

Very good point.

I've personally always enjoyed the conversation that builds out of Hodge takes, it brings a certain edge that I find entertaining in a way. I'm aware that it isn't everyone's piece of cake, but I've learned a lot about critical thinking towards Sharks and NHL players overall from those takes. When I joined HFBoards I was pretty blind critically about anything hockey wise, so to read some of the hot takes or takes that are different has brought a new side to how I see hockey as a whole.

I've got to say that there is a lot of great posters here that I've learned a thing or two from, so I'm just happy to be here. And yes I'm far from a hockey specialist myself... I just enjoy the game and have been interested in the pretty basic stats.

 

[tiburon12]

Very good point.

I've personally always enjoyed the conversation that builds out of Hodge takes, it brings a certain edge that I find entertaining in a way. I'm aware that it isn't everyone's piece of cake, but I've learned a lot about critical thinking towards Sharks and NHL players overall from those takes. When I joined HFBoards I was pretty blind critically about anything hockey wise, so to read some of the hot takes or takes that are different has brought a new side to how I see hockey as a whole.

I've got to say that there is a lot of great posters here that I've learned a thing or two from, so I'm just happy to be here. And yes I'm far from a hockey specialist myself... I just enjoy the game and have been interested in the pretty basic stats.

For sure, it's super easy to get a little to fanatical on trade evals and player projections. Good to have a logical voice to keep things back on earth

 

[Jargon]

Very good point.

I've personally always enjoyed the conversation that builds out of Hodge takes, it brings a certain edge that I find entertaining in a way. I'm aware that it isn't everyone's piece of cake, but I've learned a lot about critical thinking towards Sharks and NHL players overall from those takes. When I joined HFBoards I was pretty blind critically about anything hockey wise, so to read some of the hot takes or takes that are different has brought a new side to how I see hockey as a whole.

I've got to say that there is a lot of great posters here that I've learned a thing or two from, so I'm just happy to be here. And yes I'm far from a hockey specialist myself... I just enjoy the game and have been interested in the pretty basic stats.

I hope at the very least I taught you how to love.

 

[sampler]

The issue with the sharks drafting is size especially 2018-2021 drafts (the would be 'core' of today's sharks teams). Look at the size of just about every pick in the top 3 rounds in those 4 drafts:
2018: merkley was 185lbs, Linus karlsson is 178lbs
2019: kniazev 5'11, 178lbs... Only hamaliuk had size.
2020: weisblatt 5'10, bordeleau 5'10, Robins 5'11, Gush 5'8,
2021: Eklund 5'11 180lbs, goodreau the goalie bust

It's not just that they drafted poorly, they drafted virtually all shrimps. I'm glad to see that they are drafting more for size in the last couple years. I wish smith and celly were bigger, but they need to be bigger around those guys. Thats why if they lose the lottery, martone is likely the pick. I bet grier would take him over Misa, especially after the PO performance.

 

[Jargon]

The issue with the sharks drafting is size especially 2018-2021 drafts (the would be 'core' of today's sharks teams). Look at the size of just about every pick in the top 3 rounds in those 4 drafts:
2018: merkley was 185lbs, Linus karlsson is 178lbs
2019: kniazev 5'11, 178lbs... Only hamaliuk had size.
2020: weisblatt 5'10, bordeleau 5'10, Robins 5'11, Gush 5'8,
2021: Eklund 5'11 180lbs, goodreau the goalie bust

It's not just that they drafted poorly, they drafted virtually all shrimps. I'm glad to see that they are drafting more for size in the last couple years. I wish smith and celly were bigger, but they need to be bigger around those guys. Thats why if they lose the lottery, martone is likely the pick. I bet grier would take him over Misa, especially after the PO performance.

That would be very dumb. Misa is fairly big, skates really well and is a center, picking Martone over Misa would be a Burke move from 10 years ago. I find it very unlikely.

 

[The Nemesis]

The issue with the sharks drafting is size especially 2018-2021 drafts (the would be 'core' of today's sharks teams). Look at the size of just about every pick in the top 3 rounds in those 4 drafts:
2018: merkley was 185lbs, Linus karlsson is 178lbs
2019: kniazev 5'11, 178lbs... Only hamaliuk had size.
2020: weisblatt 5'10, bordeleau 5'10, Robins 5'11, Gush 5'8,
2021: Eklund 5'11 180lbs, goodreau the goalie bust

It's not just that they drafted poorly, they drafted virtually all shrimps. I'm glad to see that they are drafting more for size in the last couple years. I wish smith and celly were bigger, but they need to be bigger around those guys. Thats why if they lose the lottery, martone is likely the pick. I bet grier would take him over Misa, especially after the PO performance.

Except the problem is that all those guys it was things other than size that held them back. Hell, the only guy you even point out did have size (Hamaliuk) is the second biggest bust on that list besides Gaudreau. This is like suggesting that the problem is that they didn't draft any Fins in that group

 

[Harbessix]

That would be very dumb. Misa is fairly big, skates really well and is a center, picking Martone over Misa would be a Burke move from 10 years ago. I find it very unlikely.

To be fair, the franchises most successful years were largely in part to our drafting success when Burke was the head of amateur scouting. Aside from the “obvious” top 10 selections like Marleau, Stuart and Michalek ect.. there were a number of late first rounders and beyond that were vital like Clowe, Vlasic, Murray, Braun, Pavelski, Mitchell, Wingels, Demers, Hertl (Mid first), Tierney, Nieto and so on. Then there’s the sharks draft picks that were traded before playing games with us that have played 800 plus games like Coyle and Bonino. This is all a very long winded way of saying drafting like Burke wasn’t so bad lol.

 

[Hodge]

Except the problem is that all those guys it was things other than size that held them back. Hell, the only guy you even point out did have size (Hamaliuk) is the second biggest bust on that list besides Gaudreau. This is like suggesting that the problem is that they didn't draft any Fins in that group

What makes 55th overall pick Hamaliuk a bigger bust than 21st overall Merkley, 31st overall Wiesblatt, 38th overall Bordeleau, 48th overall Kniazev, etc.? In the final analysis, none of these players generated any value for the Sharks either on the ice or via trade.

 

[sampler]

Except the problem is that all those guys it was things other than size that held them back. Hell, the only guy you even point out did have size (Hamaliuk) is the second biggest bust on that list besides Gaudreau. This is like suggesting that the problem is that they didn't draft any Fins in that group

Of course, size is not everything, but its very big. When you take a total of one player with size with a late second rounder, its tough.

Undersized guys can be successful, but not usually alone as they tend to need size alongside them. On occasion, the real greats can drive the play themselves at that size, but most are paired with 6'3, 210+ linemates.

This is why I think that Ek, smith, and celly can be successful if they can get beef like cherny, haltunnen, or musty alongside 'em. but, you can see how wennberg has been the only top 9 forward who can actually possess the puck for more than a few seconds, and without more guys of that size or bigger, the sharks just cannot control games.