I’d have Nylander ahead of Marner in that department. Last I checked Marner was crying while being yelled at on the bench by teammates. He seems mentally soft.
Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion
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Hodge
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- Apr 27, 2021
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Nylander is horrible defensively and has scored 120 fewer points than Marner since they entered the league.
No Nylander isn’t horrible defensively. He has lapses like everyone else in that offense.
Posting point totals is disingenuous since it took longer for Nylander to round out his game. Dude has scored 40 or more in three straight and doesn’t cry on the bench.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Why ask what Marner has done if you’re just going to spout some “cry on the bench” BS when somebody tells you what he’s actually done?
He’s a good offensive player playing with other good offensive players. I don’t consider him a difference maker. Certainly not someone you dedicate 13 percent of your cap space to.
The “cry on the bench” remark is because he was literally caught on the bench crying while being reamed out by his teammates.
wickedwitch
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2010
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That didn't happen. Nylander was yelling at Matthews and maybe Marner, too. And the Marner threw his gloves, which is not crying.
(I have no problem with players displaying anger on the bench in reasonable manners, such as breaking a stick or, in this case, throwing gloves.)
This is video game stuff. It all works great if you play every game and Celebrini scores 300 points.
Hodge
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- Apr 27, 2021
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I would much rather allocate the increase in cap dollars to someone like Marner than to overpaying middle six forwards and #4-#6 defensemen who don't move the needle.
If those are my only choices then sure. I’d prefer waiting for 26-27 when there are better guys available like Eichel and McDavid.
You would be incorrect but it’s not worth having a long back and forth about it.
Signing those players would not put the Sharks in cap hell. Also with that line of thinking why ever try building a contender because if that would put the Sharks in cap hell then every playoff team is in cap hell.
Signings 25 offseason
Marner 7x$15m
Ekblad 7x$9.5m
Dobson 7x$10.5m
Lyon 2x$3m
Mukamadulin 2x$2m
Thompson 1x$1.2m
Kovalenko 1x$1m
This would put the Sharks at $15k under the cap with Thompson and Vlassic buried and Couture on regular IR not LTIR. So the Sharks would have at least $8m in space to add during the season by putting Couture on LTIR.
For the 26-27 season cap will increase by $9.5m. The following cap hits will be gone.
Vlassic $5.85m buried cap hit
Wenberg $5m
Ferraro $3.25m
Liljegren $3m
Desharnais $2m
Grundstrom $1.8m
Knyzhov $0.47m buyout
That is a total of $30.87m additional cap space available.
Eklund at $9m
Graf at $2m (2 year)
Dellandrea at $2m (1 year)
Ostapchuk at $2m (2 year)
Giles at $1.5m (1 year)
Kovalenko at $1.5m (1 year)
That would account for $18m leaving $12.87m in available cap space. Assuming the Sharks 25 1st will join the team the Sharks can spend $8m on a top 4 D or top 6 F depending on if Schaefer or Misa/Martone are drafted.
That would leave $5m in cap space for players on ELC’s to fill the remaining spots in 26-27 with a roster of:
Eklund - Celebrini - Marner
Chernyshov - Smith - Misa/UFA
Kovalenko - Ostapchuk - Graf
Dellandrea - Giles - Goodrow
Schaefer/UFA - Ekblad
Dickinson - Dobson
Mukamadulin - Cagnoni
As a reminder this is all done without putting Couture’s $8m on LTIR.
The following offseason the cap will go up by another $9.5m. The following cap hits will be gone.
Couture $8m
Goodrow $3.64m
Lyon $3m
Jones $1.67m (buyout)
Karlsson $1.5m (retained)
Mukamadulin $2m
Askarov $2m
Dellandrea $2m
Giles $1.5m
Kovalenko $1.5m
That is $34.64m in available cap space to sign Celebrini, Smith, Mukamadulin, and Askarov.
Celebrini $12m x 8
Smith $10m x 8
Askarov $7m x 5
Mukamadulin $5m x 5
That would leave a lineup of:
Eklund - Celebrini - Marner
Chernyshov - Smith - Misa/UFA
ELC prospect - Ostapchuk - Graf
Sub $1m - Sub $1m - Sub $1m
Schaefer/UFA - Ekblad
Dickinson - Dobson
Mukamadulin - Sub $1m
This lineup doesn’t have as much depth. Contract estimates were also on the high end. If depth is an issue then let Mukamadulin walk and use that money to fill in depth.
The following season will have Toffoli’s $6m plus cap increases to spend. Only Dickinson would need to be signed. The Schaefer/Misa 2nd contract would be the following offseason with the remaining of the Hertl retention coming off the books. The 3 years that the Misa/Schaefer 2nd contract overlaps with the Marner/Ekblad/Dobson deals overlap would be a challenge, but it would only need one player to be moved to create space. Also those 3 won’t be in their late 30’s at the end of their deals. They would still be strong contributors at the end of their deals.
Yes if every top prospect hits they will not be able to keep all of them but I don’t think that signing players this offseason would cause a cap problem. In my scenario maybe it won’t be needed to get an $8m UFA and hopefully more than just Chernyshov can contribute from the prospect pool.
Neither of those 2 will make it to UFA.
spintops
Registered User
- Sep 13, 2013
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- 789
I'm all for spending the cap space for a guy like Marner if he will take our money. I think it's way too early to give up our first on a offer sheet though, maybe next off-season if we look like a playoff team next year.
Eichel probably not but depending on how the upcoming postseason goes I’m not 100% Connor wants to stick around there.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
We definitely can't tender an offersheet with 1st round compensation. Trading an unprotected 1st after two straight last-place finishes would be an insane move.
I still think offering Will Cuylle at the max 2nd round pick compensation (about $5M) is the only realistic possibility. They have about $12.5M to re-sign K. Miller, Cuylle, give Perreault his ELC, and sign depth pieces. Probably they'll slither out of another bad contract somehow because NHL GMs love to shoot themselves in the foot, but that's the only potential offersheet I think I'd really go for. Everyone else is too expensive (Knies) or not worth it.
I still think offering Will Cuylle at the max 2nd round pick compensation (about $5M) is the only realistic possibility. They have about $12.5M to re-sign K. Miller, Cuylle, give Perreault his ELC, and sign depth pieces. Probably they'll slither out of another bad contract somehow because NHL GMs love to shoot themselves in the foot, but that's the only potential offersheet I think I'd really go for. Everyone else is too expensive (Knies) or not worth it.
As well thought out as this is, it seems foolishly short-sighted to bring in three marquee pieces at top dollar to a team still just going through the first steps of rebuilding. I think it's much more preferable to spend the next season focusing on the kids on the cusp of making it along with the kids already here. Every year there will be premium players available whether through trade, FA or RFA.
I do agree that it might be too much to add 3 top of the lineup players this offseason. I was mostly making an argument for a “go for it” strategy where giving up the 2026 1st is worth it.
Yes there are good players available every year, but SJ has failed to land a single one in FA so if 1 or 3 are willing to sign this offseason then I think the Sharks should say yes. They shouldn’t avoid signing a guy that is willing to just because it is a year too early.
pappaf2
Registered User
Maybe I’m just talking myself into it but in someways Marner seems like the most plausible high end free agent to sign with the sharks, ever. The Jumbo patty connection, young team with high end young talent that’s poised to be on the upswing, oodles of cap space for him to get paid, and the quiet market of SJ away from the rabid Toronto media and fans could be a highly attractive to him.
Not saying he’s any sort of lock to sign with the sharks. I would say if he does want to sign with the team it would be pretty bonkers for the sharks to pass that opportunity up.
Not saying he’s any sort of lock to sign with the sharks. I would say if he does want to sign with the team it would be pretty bonkers for the sharks to pass that opportunity up.
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timorous me
Gristled Veteran
- Apr 14, 2010
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Agreed, but as much potential as we have, it’s still gonna be difficult to land a free agent in their prime right now while the team is coming off back to back last place finishes. Most marquee names I imagine would like some sort of a definitive timeline instead of just “we’re on our way”.
OrrNumber4
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- Jul 25, 2002
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I think this analysis is lacking, because it ignores certain factors:RE: the playoff performance debate, I thought this article by Dom Luczyzyzyzyzyzyzyzyzyzyzyzyzyzyn last May was very good. tl;dr Marner and Matthews have massive dropoffs in offense in the playoffs not because they suck or are weak or aren't tough, but because they focus too much on "playing playoff hockey" and being defensively sound.
View attachment 1000500
The Maple Leafs changed the way they play in the playoffs and lost because of it
The Maple Leafs went out of their way to play The Right Way in the playoffs. But it's the wrong way for this team and how it's built.www.nytimes.com
1) How much is this a talent effect? E.g one the Leafs play better teams in the playoffs, they naturally have to defend more, increasing their defensive rating
2) How much does an inability to score force players into defensive efforts? E.g., if Matthews can't produce offensively, he falls back on defense skills
3) How much of this is Toronto being unable to assert their style of play against better teams, instead getting to a defensive slogfest?
Attributing this change to "them trying to play playoff hockey" would need more work.
Note that if you sum the numbers, both players still are worse off in the playoffs.
DarrylshutzSydor
Registered User
DarrylshutzSydor
Registered User
Goodrow: 3.64 million
Kunin: 2.75 million
Kostin: 2 million
(Grundstrom 1.8 mil, or Dellandrea: 1.3 million)
The Sharks have the best paid 4th line probably of all time
