Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[jMoneyBrah]

Question: I think someone earlier alluded to the notion that the Sharks were no longer willing/able to spend to the cap? I.E. for next year in free agency and future contract negotiations. Can anyone confirm or deny that with a source?

I’m guessing there will be no source on that. I suspect Platner isn’t against spending to the cap if there is a reason to. He’s okayed it many times before, I presume he’d be open to it again. I also suspect Grier isn’t in a hurry to make that call to Platner either. Grier clearly has some runway to rebuild the franchise; but I think the clock starts really ticking when he starts spending real money.

To this point Grier’s spending has been Toffoli, Wennberg, and a bunch of minor bottom 6 contracts. He’s been pretty disciplined in not needlessly spending (IIRC Burns’ retained salary is like the 3rd or 4th largest deal Grier has done going by AAV). Everything I’ve read about how Hasso Platner engages with the Sharks leads me to believe whenever the time comes to open the purse strings, he’ll do it decisively.

Of course, if Grier can put a team together that can win enough games to warrant increasing spending; presumably a team with young exciting players, a team built around Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, etc - I’m sure the SAP center will be selling out regularly and making it easier for Hasso to spend more.

 

[Skeksis25]

Right now, Ostapchuk has 4 points in 50 career games with Ottawa. 20 points is a ways off for him if it ever happens at all.

I don't really expect him to be anything, but if that's the player Grier and the scouts envision him becoming, I understand the trade. And they should get a chance to show that they know more than messageboard folk.

I loved Zetterlund, but taking emotion out of the equation, he is a very easily replaceable player. So, even if this trade bombs, its ok. Of course, it has caused Eklund to have the sad, but he needs to grow up and accept that this is part of being a pro. If he allows this trade to really affect him, I don't know how he is going to handle bigger adversity.

 

[timorous me]

Right now, Ostapchuk has 4 points in 50 career games with Ottawa. 20 points is a ways off for him if it ever happens at all.

Hey, Joe Thornton had 7 points in his first 55 career games...

I see a lot of people penciling in Ostapchuk as the future 3rd line C but he is as much as Kunin was. Yea, he can play it but you want it as a short term solution. I still think Bystedt is the better fit long term, Ostapchuk would be better out at wing.

Come to think of it, he might be this boards new Kunin a hundredfold pretty soon. We gave up a 3rd for Kunin, we gave up Zetts for Osty.

I guess I wouldn't be surprised if some fans basically never give Ostapchuk a chance because he was the guy who came back for Zetterlund, but that's not really fair to him. I just hope that people realize that in a few years, when this team is hopefully getting good, Zetterlund would (hopefully) place below the top six skill forwards on the Sharks roster...and Ostapchuk hopefully will have improved his overall game to be a useful bottom six piece.

We'll see how he develops, but let's remember he's played these games as a 21-year-old who probably needed more seasoning in the AHL. Instead he's been playing mostly with guys like Noah Gregor and struggling--but there absolutely is room for growth there, so we just have to hope that he can keep going over these next few years. It's just that the comparison to Zetterlund is going to always look unfavorable because he's not a guy who's going to score to that level.

But if he becomes a whipping boy as a 21/22 year old simply because he's not Zetterlund and not yet what we want, that would really suck and feel unfair. (I get not liking the trade, but that doesn't mean holding it against Ostapchuk, you know?)

 

[tiburon12]

But if he becomes a whipping boy as a 21/22 year old simply because he's not Zetterlund and not yet what we want, that would really suck and feel unfair. (I get not liking the trade, but that doesn't mean holding it against Ostapchuk, you know?)

I saw this clip from Lou today and it sums up how I feel about players on the Sharks. I know that isn't how everybody views fandom though.



But what I really don't understand in the balance of heart vs head, is when people don't respect that the NHL is a business and sometimes you have to make hard business decisions. On paper, Zetts was/is more replaceable than a stalwart 3c, which Ostapchuk could be. If it works out, you make this trade any day of the week, and if it doesn't you can criticize Grier for his pro-scouting, NOT for trading a fan favorite in pursuit of making the team better. Those are different things.

Reading some posters bend over backwards to assume Ostapchuk won't work out just because they like Zetts as a guy is annoying to read because, like you said @timorous me , not fair at all to Ostapchuk.

Side note: there's a Sharks fan here who i chat with sometimes, and he STILL is mad at Grier for trading Timo and Hertl. I can't have real conversations with him about the team.

 

[spintops]

Most are assuming Ostapchuk won't work out is based on the numbers that most prospects don't work out. If you take a group of 100 kids with his production how many turned into legit NHLers?

I obviously hope he turns into a great 3C, but it's honestly an uphill battle. IMO sometimes front offices can be overconfident in their scouting when they fall in love with a kid. 49ers do it all the time (Trey Lance)

 

[Kcoyote3]

Most are assuming Ostapchuk won't work out is based on the numbers that most prospects don't work out. If you take a group of 100 kids with his production how many turned into legit NHLers?

I obviously hope he turns into a great 3C, but it's honestly an uphill battle. IMO sometimes front offices can be overconfident in their scouting when they fall in love with a kid. 49ers do it all the time (Trey Lance)

That's my biggest concern. Sometimes you can overdo it and be very confident a player WILL turn into something rather than CAN. It may even be founded in good logic. Our scouts identified xyz players and all of them turned out what we expected so that must be identifying this player as a 3C of the future means he will be that.

The Grier pro scouting has been on it though. Walman, Blackwood, Zetterlund are all better players than they were before they were brought to SJ. I'm hopeful for Ostapchuk in the same way. Grier has done this before and it hasn't worked out in Makiniemi as well. He mentioned it as one of the main reasons for the Burns trade was that specific prospect target.

All that being said, this trade doesn't really matter. He's built up enough good faith in tearing this thing down and trying to chart a course that it's not what is going to break the trust that I have in him.

 

[Jargon]

Most are assuming Ostapchuk won't work out is based on the numbers that most prospects don't work out. If you take a group of 100 kids with his production how many turned into legit NHLers?

I obviously hope he turns into a great 3C, but it's honestly an uphill battle. IMO sometimes front offices can be overconfident in their scouting when they fall in love with a kid. 49ers do it all the time (Trey Lance)

I think that Grier’s scouting staff has shown that they’re actually quite good at finding talent. I mean, I don’t think most people really loved Zetterlund in the Meier trade either.

The more I read about him, the more I sorta get it. He’s VERY young, managing to play an incredibly hard role in the NHL at least passably. He’s big, he’s fast, he’s got good hands AND at 21, he’s defensively reliable. He also sounds like a really good human being/leader. I can imagine the scouting staff looking at that package and being like, oh yeah we can craft this into something essential. He kinda has everything you need for the role, he just needs to cook a little.

The question for me is ultimately, was that the best we could’ve gotten for Zetterlund? But I’m not in those calls and maybe, frankly, it was.

 

[Jargon]

That's my biggest concern. Sometimes you can overdo it and be very confident a player WILL turn into something rather than CAN. It may even be founded in good logic. Our scouts identified xyz players and all of them turned out what we expected so that must be identifying this player as a 3C of the future means he will be that.

The Grier pro scouting has been on it though. Walman, Blackwood, Zetterlund are all better players than they were before they were brought to SJ. I'm hopeful for Ostapchuk in the same way. Grier has done this before and it hasn't worked out in Makiniemi as well. He mentioned it as one of the main reasons for the Burns trade was that specific prospect target.

All that being said, this trade doesn't really matter. He's built up enough good faith in tearing this thing down and trying to chart a course that it's not what is going to break the trust that I have in him.

Yeah, agreed and Makiniemi, to be fair to the staff, was hampered by injuries. This trade hurts but I agree, Grier has earned the trust for now and we’ll see where it goes.

He just can’t trade Eklund…

 

[Friday]

That's my biggest concern. Sometimes you can overdo it and be very confident a player WILL turn into something rather than CAN. It may even be founded in good logic. Our scouts identified xyz players and all of them turned out what we expected so that must be identifying this player as a 3C of the future means he will be that.

The Grier pro scouting has been on it though. Walman, Blackwood, Zetterlund are all better players than they were before they were brought to SJ. I'm hopeful for Ostapchuk in the same way. Grier has done this before and it hasn't worked out in Makiniemi as well. He mentioned it as one of the main reasons for the Burns trade was that specific prospect target.

All that being said, this trade doesn't really matter. He's built up enough good faith in tearing this thing down and trying to chart a course that it's not what is going to break the trust that I have in him.

I trust MG with getting the draft fodder and assets needed to build a squad. But that seems to be the easier part. I want to trust him to find the right players now and we still don’t know if he’s capable of it. The Askarov trade gives me hope that he’s at least decisive and waiting for the right opportunities. I was hoping next season was when things would start to move forward but after this deadline haha I’m not so sure that’s the plan. No idea what the timeline is for being competitive

 

[Friday]

I think that Grier’s scouting staff has shown that they’re actually quite good at finding talent. I mean, I don’t think most people really loved Zetterlund in the Meier trade either.

The more I read about him, the more I sorta get it. He’s VERY young, managing to play an incredibly hard role in the NHL at least passably. He’s big, he’s fast, he’s got good hands AND at 21, he’s defensively reliable. He also sounds like a really good human being/leader. I can imagine the scouting staff looking at that package and being like, oh yeah we can craft this into something essential. He kinda has everything you need for the role, he just needs to cook a little.

The question for me is ultimately, was that the best we could’ve gotten for Zetterlund? But I’m not in those calls and maybe, frankly, it was.

100% that was rushed no matter how MG spins it

 

[Jargon]

I trust MG with getting the draft fodder and assets needed to build a squad. But that seems to be the easier part. I want to trust him to find the right players now and we still don’t know if he’s capable of it. The Askarov trade gives me hope that he’s at least decisive and waiting for the right opportunities. I was hoping next season was when things would start to move forward but after this deadline haha I’m not so sure that’s the plan. No idea what the timeline is for being competitive

I believe Grier when he says he’s done being a huge seller. I mean we don’t have much left to sell, frankly, and as I wrote earlier I think he’s got the backbone he wants (Celebrini / Smith / Ostapchuk or Bystedt — Dickinson / hopefully Schaefer — Askarov). I expect he’s going to try and fill out the top 6 with a couple of vets this summer, I expect he’s aggressive trying to find defensive help.

I think between Celebrini, Smith and Eklund all getting better by a year and whatever he manages to bring in this summer, I have to hope that this team is like 5th-7th worst next year and then hopefully a big jump after that with prospects being ready for primetime.

As an aside, I wonder if Granlund would come back for a couple of seasons.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I believe Grier when he says he’s done being a huge seller. I mean we don’t have much left to sell

It’s not entirely true. Ferraro and Wennberg will both be sold next deadline unless this team is magically within 5 points of a playoff spot.

 

[Friday]

I believe Grier when he says he’s done being a huge seller. I mean we don’t have much left to sell, frankly, and as I wrote earlier I think he’s got the backbone he wants (Celebrini / Smith / Ostapchuk or Bystedt — Dickinson / hopefully Schaefer — Askarov). I expect he’s going to try and fill out the top 6 with a couple of vets this summer, I expect he’s aggressive trying to find defensive help.

I think between Celebrini, Smith and Eklund all getting better by a year and whatever he manages to bring in this summer, I have to hope that this team is like 5th-7th worst next year and then hopefully a big jump after that with prospects being ready for primetime.

As an aside, I wonder if Granlund would come back for a couple of seasons.

I think come next deadline you’d think Ferraro is going for a 1st/2nd and Alex Wennberg is also probably going for a 2nd. Just doesn’t seem like the selling is stopping. Maybe that all gets sorted this offseason and the team will have some more stability. I’m hoping the late 1st in 25 and all the 2nds are used to get roster players instead of prospects that won’t help for 3/4 more years. Because then it feels like a 10 year rebuild. I don’t mean to rush it but at some point there has to be something stable for the kids coming

 

[Jargon]

I think come next deadline you’d think Ferraro is going for a 1st/2nd and Alex Wennberg is also probably going for a 2nd. Just doesn’t seem like the selling is stopping. Maybe that all gets sorted this offseason and the team will have some more stability. I’m hoping the late 1st in 25 and all the 2nds are used to get roster players instead of prospects that won’t help for 3/4 more years. Because then it feels like a 10 year rebuild. I don’t mean to rush it but at some point there has to be something stable for the kids coming

I can see that with Mario and Wennberg, though it heavily depends on how the team is doing, how our prospects are developing in the A, how Smith is doing, etc.

I do expect him to trade for more ready-made guys now, yeah.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think come next deadline you’d think Ferraro is going for a 1st/2nd and Alex Wennberg is also probably going for a 2nd. Just doesn’t seem like the selling is stopping. Maybe that all gets sorted this offseason and the team will have some more stability. I’m hoping the late 1st in 25 and all the 2nds are used to get roster players instead of prospects that won’t help for 3/4 more years. Because then it feels like a 10 year rebuild. I don’t mean to rush it but at some point there has to be something stable for the kids coming

If Wennberg is willing to end his career here (ie take a smaller contract, like $2M x three years) then I think we should make it happen. He's shown himself to be well-liked in this room and a good leader on top of being a versatile player. Feels like a guy who could fade into being a great 4C towards the end of his career.

 

[Friday]

If Wennberg is willing to end his career here (ie take a smaller contract, like $2M x three years) then I think we should make it happen. He's shown himself to be well-liked in this room and a good leader on top of being a versatile player. Feels like a guy who could fade into being a great 4C towards the end of his career.

I’m super high on Wennberg, in an ideal world he’s a safety net 3C for the kids. I do hope they keep him around

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If Wennberg is willing to end his career here (ie take a smaller contract, like $2M x three years) then I think we should make it happen. He's shown himself to be well-liked in this room and a good leader on top of being a versatile player. Feels like a guy who could fade into being a great 4C towards the end of his career.

I think it'll be difficult to ask him to take a pay cut if next season is a repeat of this season especially with the cap going up but I'd be fine with 5x3 for Wennberg with our current cap timeline.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think it'll be difficult to ask him to take a pay cut if next season is a repeat of this season especially with the cap going up but I'd be fine with 5x3 for Wennberg with our current cap timeline.

I think the AAV would have to come down some, but yeah I overestimated how old he is. I would be happy with $3.5M x four years if he wanted some term for career security. That'll basically be good 4C money in three years anyway.

 

[weastern bias]

I think Grier is more likely to re-sign and keep Wennberg around than he was for Granlund for a number of reasons

He's younger

He's bigger

He's much better defensively

He's can play a bottom-6 role

I'd like to keep him around because

Just look at him

 

[Jargon]

I think Grier is more likely to re-sign and keep Wennberg around than he was for Granlund for a number of reasons

He's younger

He's bigger

He's much better defensively

He's can play a bottom-6 role

I'd like to keep him around because

Just look at him

Every single one of these reasons feels really right

 

[TheBeard]

Alex is turning 31 this year. I don’t know why he would re-sign here but if he did I imagine he’d want a short term deal and trade protections so he could ultimately pick his team when Grier eventually trades him.

 

[Friday]

Alex is turning 31 this year. I don’t know why he would re-sign here but if he did I imagine he’d want a short term deal and trade protections so he could ultimately pick his team when Grier eventually trades him.

I don’t know give him a 3x6 or something

 

[TheBeard]

I don’t know give him a 3x6 or something

The problem is he’ll be 34 when the deal ends and I don’t know any contender who would take him and his 6 million dollar cap at the deadline without major retention, so he’d ultimately be limiting himself. If he wants to chase a championship this would not be the way to do it.

 

[Jargon]

The problem is he’ll be 34 when the deal ends and I don’t know any contender who would take him and his 6 million dollar cap at the deadline without major retention, so he’d ultimately be limiting himself. If he wants to chase a championship this would not be the way to do it.

Though in 4 years the cap will be much higher and I can see prices going up to the point where that’s sorta fair, if he’s still playing.

But also, not every player needs to be flippable, if he helps the team win for four years, is a mentor and leader, etc. that’s valuable too.

 

[Friday]

The problem is he’ll be 34 when the deal ends and I don’t know any contender who would take him and his 6 million dollar cap at the deadline without major retention, so he’d ultimately be limiting himself. If he wants to chase a championship this would not be the way to do it.

Who knows? If a team out there wants to give him a 4x5 or a 5x5? But you’re right