Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Hodge]

I would say they're different. Kostin is almost 26 years old and has been inconsistent for multiple years in the NHL already. I'd be totally fine letting him go.

Jack Thompson is 22/23 and has barely played 20 games in the NHL + looked solid with the Cuda + he's a RD (and the Sharks RD prospect pool is crickets). I'd definitely be fine with giving him a 1-2 year cheap deal to see if he develops into anything.

If we're signing Thompson to put him on waivers and send him to the Cuda I guess that's fine. Sheng posted some stats on his website showing Thompson has been our worst puck moving defenseman which is alarming considering every other aspect of his game is even worse. We need to add some real NHL defensemen.

 

[Gecklund]

If we're signing Thompson to put him on waivers and send him to the Cuda I guess that's fine. Sheng posted some stats on his website showing Thompson has been our worst puck moving defenseman which is alarming considering every other aspect of his game is even worse. We need to add some real NHL defensemen.

Those don’t just pop out of thin air though (unless you’re trading with Detroit)

I think you need to be more specific too. You need top 4 NHL dmen. Our team is full of bottom pairing guys. Only one that I think is above that is Walman although Mukh, Liljegren, and Ferraro all look okay the last few games. You hope FA market can give you one obviously. I see maybe 10 top 4 D: Burns, Ekblad, Orlov, Provorov, Gavrikov, Pionk, Chychrun, Fabbro, Hakanpaa and you could make an argument for Lindgren, Grzelyck. Of that list I think a bunch resign but let’s assume only a few do. I’m going to say that leaves us Burns, Orlov, Provorov, Chychrun, Lindgren, Grzelyck as options. Well guess what position contenders convert the most top 4 RHD. So that probably removes Burns cause he signs with a contender. Now let’s look at bubble and playoff teams that need a top 4 LHD: BOS, CGY, NJD, NYR, VAN. Seems like a perfect match with numbers leaving us on the outside looking in.

Okay now let’s look at cap dumps: I genuinely do not see any. Now obviously this will change, but with the cap going up like it is I just don’t see any cap dump dmen.

Okay now let’s guys who have either been rumored available and/or I think might be unhappy with their role. Byram, Spence, Clarke, Nemec, Dobson, Miller, Schneider, Whitecloud, Fehevary, Samberg. I think all of these guys cost a pick or two with someone like Whitecloud being the least expensive and someone like Dobson being the most. I actually think spending say DAL 1st and prospect for Byram and say our 2nd for Whitecloud would help our defense a ton. But Whitecloud is also almost 30 and Byram is great but we are still missing any RHD we can confidently pencil in for the next 5 years.

 

[Hodge]

Those don’t just pop out of thin air though (unless you’re trading with Detroit)

I think you need to be more specific too. You need top 4 NHL dmen. Our team is full of bottom pairing guys. Only one that I think is above that is Walman although Mukh, Liljegren, and Ferraro all look okay the last few games. You hope FA market can give you one obviously. I see maybe 10 top 4 D: Burns, Ekblad, Orlov, Provorov, Gavrikov, Pionk, Chychrun, Fabbro, Hakanpaa and you could make an argument for Lindgren, Grzelyck. Of that list I think a bunch resign but let’s assume only a few do. I’m going to say that leaves us Burns, Orlov, Provorov, Chychrun, Lindgren, Grzelyck as options. Well guess what position contenders convert the most top 4 RHD. So that probably removes Burns cause he signs with a contender. Now let’s look at bubble and playoff teams that need a top 4 LHD: BOS, CGY, NJD, NYR, VAN. Seems like a perfect match with numbers leaving us on the outside looking in.

Okay now let’s look at cap dumps: I genuinely do not see any. Now obviously this will change, but with the cap going up like it is I just don’t see any cap dump dmen.

Okay now let’s guys who have either been rumored available and/or I think might be unhappy with their role. Byram, Spence, Clarke, Nemec, Dobson, Miller, Schneider, Whitecloud, Fehevary, Samberg. I think all of these guys cost a pick or two with someone like Whitecloud being the least expensive and someone like Dobson being the most. I actually think spending say DAL 1st and prospect for Byram and say our 2nd for Whitecloud would help our defense a ton. But Whitecloud is also almost 30 and Byram is great but we are still missing any RHD we can confidently pencil in for the next 5 years.

Whitecloud definitely has 5+ years left in him. If we acquire him and give him a shot in a top 4 role I think he'd run with it. Even if that's the only defenseman we add this summer we'd be going into 2025-26 with Walman, Whitecloud, Ferraro, Liljegren, Thrun, Mukhamadullin and Vlasic all needing to clear waivers to be sent down. Like I said, if you want to re-sign Thompson and have him compete with Thrun and Mukhamadullin in camp then waive whoever the worst guy is that makes some sense. But I also don't think we'd ever regret it if we just non-tender Thompson either.

 

[Gecklund]

Whitecloud definitely has 5+ years left in him. If we acquire him and give him a shot in a top 4 role I think he'd run with it. Even if that's the only defenseman we add this summer we'd be going into 2025-26 with Walman, Whitecloud, Ferraro, Liljegren, Thrun, Mukhamadullin and Vlasic all needing to clear waivers to be sent down. Like I said, if you want to re-sign Thompson and have him compete with Thrun and Mukhamadullin in camp then waive whoever the worst guy is that makes some sense. But I also don't think we'd ever regret it if we just non-tender Thompson either.

I think Thompson is in a similar boat to Bordeleau last year (although one needs waivers and one didn’t) personally I believe there’s no reason to not quality him. If he wins the spot fantastic, if not we waive him and go from there.

I do think we need more than just Whitecloud though. I keep bringing up Byram cause he’s been actually rumored to be available but:

Byram-Whitecloud
Walman-Ferraro
Mukh-Liljegren
Vlasic

I think is a legit NHL D. It’s still missing the top pairing guys and still needs some help but all these guys could provide legit competition for our young guys.

I do think Ferraro is going to want out soon though. No real rumors there though just a feeling.

 

[matt trick]

Those don’t just pop out of thin air though (unless you’re trading with Detroit)

I think you need to be more specific too. You need top 4 NHL dmen. Our team is full of bottom pairing guys. Only one that I think is above that is Walman although Mukh, Liljegren, and Ferraro all look okay the last few games. You hope FA market can give you one obviously. I see maybe 10 top 4 D: Burns, Ekblad, Orlov, Provorov, Gavrikov, Pionk, Chychrun, Fabbro, Hakanpaa and you could make an argument for Lindgren, Grzelyck. Of that list I think a bunch resign but let’s assume only a few do. I’m going to say that leaves us Burns, Orlov, Provorov, Chychrun, Lindgren, Grzelyck as options. Well guess what position contenders convert the most top 4 RHD. So that probably removes Burns cause he signs with a contender. Now let’s look at bubble and playoff teams that need a top 4 LHD: BOS, CGY, NJD, NYR, VAN. Seems like a perfect match with numbers leaving us on the outside looking in.

Okay now let’s look at cap dumps: I genuinely do not see any. Now obviously this will change, but with the cap going up like it is I just don’t see any cap dump dmen.

Okay now let’s guys who have either been rumored available and/or I think might be unhappy with their role. Byram, Spence, Clarke, Nemec, Dobson, Miller, Schneider, Whitecloud, Fehevary, Samberg. I think all of these guys cost a pick or two with someone like Whitecloud being the least expensive and someone like Dobson being the most. I actually think spending say DAL 1st and prospect for Byram and say our 2nd for Whitecloud would help our defense a ton. But Whitecloud is also almost 30 and Byram is great but we are still missing any RHD we can confidently pencil in for the next 5 years.

This does a really good job of summarising my concern. D-men will be in demand. Not sure if 1st for Granlund+3rd would have worked for Dallas (it may not have), but if all we got for Ceci was the cond 4th/3rd, I'd have preferred to keep Ceci. He's not a legit top 4 guy, but he's a profile we will always need, and cannot likely replace.

Kovacevic is another one, and he's younger (and playing better on a much better team). The one high cap D I see a team being interested in moving for low value is Ristolainen in Philly. I expect he'll cost a 2nd, though a 1st isn't out of the question. He's not great, but the term is short, and right-side D are so in demand he'll likely fit a low cap team.

Grier's got to find a top 4 RHD, and ideally two. I don't think Ferraro represents the profile of what the team needs midterm, but I concede moving him does open another hole (he'll be worth a 2nd next deadline as well, so no rush). Walman, Kovacevic/Gavrikov, Ferraro, Muk, Liljigren, and a guy like Whitecloud/Ristolainen would allow for a defense by committee. Everyone is capable of 18 minutes, they have different strengths. Ideally you draft Schaefer to replace Ferraro (next offseason), and slowplay Dickinson (OHL next year, AHL the following, then NHL in D+3).

That is still bottom 3-5 defense in the league, but last year we iced:

Ferraro-Rutta
Thrun-Burroughs
Vlasic-Emberson
Benning/Ohtiouk

Of the available D: Byram, Dobson, and Miller are the difference makers, but not sure any of them are the type you win with. Byram would be my first choice however. Nemec could be a good target but I think he's less likely to work out than Byram.

 

[CHALUPA]

People keep talking about how well Mukhamadullin is playing, but I think they're just trying to talk themselves into it. The best I can say about him is that I've barely noticed his impact on the game, which means he isn't making any major gaffes, but he also isn't really making any significant positive impact either. He'll probably get plenty of time the rest of the way to prove otherwise, but so far to me he just looks like a passenger.

I think this is a good thing. The best compliment you can give a shutdown D-man is that you didn’t notice them at all. We obviously want Mukh to be more than that, but I’m happy if this is his floor.

He doesnt look like a future driver of our D, but I think he still has potential to be a middle pairing player, which is what we were hoping for.

 

[Gecklund]

This does a really good job of summarising my concern. D-men will be in demand. Not sure if 1st for Granlund+3rd would have worked for Dallas (it may not have), but if all we got for Ceci was the cond 4th/3rd, I'd have preferred to keep Ceci. He's not a legit top 4 guy, but he's a profile we will always need, and cannot likely replace.

Kovacevic is another one, and he's younger (and playing better on a much better team). The one high cap D I see a team being interested in moving for low value is Ristolainen in Philly. I expect he'll cost a 2nd, though a 1st isn't out of the question. He's not great, but the term is short, and right-side D are so in demand he'll likely fit a low cap team.

Grier's got to find a top 4 RHD, and ideally two. I don't think Ferraro represents the profile of what the team needs midterm, but I concede moving him does open another hole (he'll be worth a 2nd next deadline as well, so no rush). Walman, Kovacevic/Gavrikov, Ferraro, Muk, Liljigren, and a guy like Whitecloud/Ristolainen would allow for a defense by committee. Everyone is capable of 18 minutes, they have different strengths. Ideally you draft Schaefer to replace Ferraro (next offseason), and slowplay Dickinson (OHL next year, AHL the following, then NHL in D+3).

That is still bottom 3-5 defense in the league, but last year we iced:

Ferraro-Rutta
Thrun-Burroughs
Vlasic-Emberson
Benning/Ohtiouk

Of the available D: Byram, Dobson, and Miller are the difference makers, but not sure any of them are the type you win with. Byram would be my first choice however. Nemec could be a good target but I think he's less likely to work out than Byram.

I forgot about Kovacevic. I just sorted by cap hit and didn’t go that far down.

I do like Kovacevic a lot and wanted Sharks to claim him when WPG waived him. I got a pretty strong feeling he’s signed by a contender though. A place like Dallas actually makes a ton of sense.

Another guy that I left off but would love to take a flyer on is Zac Jones. I wouldn’t give up much to get him, like a 3rd or 4th max but he showed a ton of promise and has gotten pushed down by NYRs depth. He is a lefty though.

I think this is a good thing. The best compliment you can give a shutdown D-man is that you didn’t notice them at all. We obviously want Mukh to be more than that, but I’m happy if this is his floor.

He doesnt look like a future driver of our D, but I think he still has potential to be a middle pairing player, which is what we were hoping for.

Last night there were a few times where I thought he was Walman based on a play made whether it was breaking up a pass or breaking out of the zone. I agree he could be a solid second pair which is a great outcome. Him and Liljegren seem to fit pretty well together.

 

[Jargon]

This is obvious but boy Grier has a lot of work to do this summer.

 

[Gecklund]

This is obvious but boy Grier has a lot of work to do this summer.

The thing that’s nice though is I at least trust him to know that he has work to do. I’m interested to see him build an NHL level defense. Our forwards still need work obviously but I think our defense is the biggest thing. Can he build an NHL defense? Ceci and Walman have proven to be good moves but at what point does he say okay we need more than just cap dump level guys?

 

[jMoneyBrah]

I might rather play Schaefer, Mukhamadullin, Cagnoni, and/or Thrun on their off-side.

Would Thompson be OK as the 8th D, best-case 7th D if Vlasic is not playing? Cagnoni and Schaefer will be waiver-exempt, but not the others...

Why have thumb rules if we aren’t going to stick the them?

The rule of thumb for young defensemen:
…
1) Play them on their natural side
2) Play them with a good partner
3) Play them in easy minutes
…

In all seriousness why would we play the younger player on their off-side over asking the vet to do the heavier lifting? It feels to me like sayin’ “hey rook, welcome to the show. We understand that you’re probably already at capacity just tryna get up to NHL speed, but we’re gonna need you to do that while wearing these handcuffs. Good luck.”

If we are fortunate enough to land Schaefer, then take your pick of Mukh, Cagnoni, or Thrun to keep and trade the others for help in other areas of the roster. If we’re penciling in Schaefer and Dickinson as 1 and 2 LD I don’t see why we need to get overly precious about 3LD. It’s like one of the easiest positions to fill.

 

[DG93]

If we're signing Thompson to put him on waivers and send him to the Cuda I guess that's fine. Sheng posted some stats on his website showing Thompson has been our worst puck moving defenseman which is alarming considering every other aspect of his game is even worse. We need to add some real NHL defensemen.

That's fine. They could always waive Thrun too if Thompson proves he deserves an NHL spot. Buying out Vlasic is another option (adds only 1.2M as dead cap for 2026-2027) since he's cooked. If Thompson sucks, waive him like you said. Grier did same thing for Thrun last summer, so I don't think it'd be that surprising.

 

[Star Platinum]

This is obvious but boy Grier has a lot of work to do this summer.

If he really thought we'd be eighth worst with this roster, he was kidding himself

 

[tahoesharksfan]

This is obvious but boy Grier has a lot of work to do this summer.

One step at a time...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That's fine. They could always waive Thrun too if Thompson proves he deserves an NHL spot. Buying out Vlasic is another option (adds only 1.2M as dead cap for 2026-2027) since he's cooked. If Thompson sucks, waive him like you said. Grier did same thing for Thrun last summer, so I don't think it'd be that surprising.

I’m not worried about Thrun or Thompson’s status. They’re good to be the #7 if the team chooses or they could be moved and nobody would really notice. Thompson at least gives the team a good AHL RHD to play with a developing defenseman.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

The best available defensemen IMO are: Chychrun, Provorov, Lindgren, Ekblad

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The best available defensemen IMO are: Chychrun, Provorov, Lindgren, Ekblad

I’d be happy with Chychrun and Ekblad but don’t see them interested in signing here.

 

[Jargon]

I’d be happy with Chychrun and Ekblad but don’t see them interested in signing here.

Sharks should just start offering to hang jerseys in the rafters of any higher end player that signs here. Or like, we can name stuff after them. “The Ekblad Penalty box!” - “in this game, all the referees will named Chychrun!” It’s not a perfect solve but we need ideas.

 

[one2gamble]

Kind of felt that was a decent waiver pickup

 

[OrrNumber4]

Kind of felt that was a decent waiver pickup

Sharks have a big logjam of bubble players and probably want to save some contract spots for full-time AHL help (e.g., what is the defense looking like for the Barracuda next season?).

 

[Star Platinum]

Sharks have a big logjam of bubble players and probably want to save some contract spots for full-time AHL help (e.g., what is the defense looking like for the Barracuda next season?).

Any chance Eric Pohlkamp might play for Barracuda next year?