Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[CHALUPA]

My whole problem with the idea of trading for a guy like Dobson is that I think we would make far more hay trading less valuable assets to get solid defensive, but offensively unspectacular defensemen and sprinkle them all throughout our three defense pairs than to blow a lot of future assets on an imperfect offensive defenseman. The most important thing the Sharks need to do right now is to deal with the gaping wound in their own zone so that they can start finishing the games where they have leads in the third period better.

I know we use the term “offensive” and “defensive” defensemen, but that feels a bit reductive. Sprinkling decent defensive d-men through our lineup doesn’t actually help much if they can’t move the puck out of our zone.

 

[Grinner]

And so I question why they don't want to meet the contract demands of a 25 year old 6'4" defenseman who scored 70 points last season.

Either he's asking for something insane (>$10M), in which I don't want to trade for him because I don't want to pay him something insane and/or he can elect arbitration and send himself straight to UFA, or he's asking for something reasonable ($8Mish) for a top-pairing RHD his age and they don't think he's a top pairing defenseman. Either way, it's a red flag to me.

Or perhaps he's let them know he intends to test free agency. Or at the least that he doesn't wis to resign with the NYI

 

[Star Platinum]

I know we use the term “offensive” and “defensive” defensemen, but that feels a bit reductive. Sprinkling decent defensive d-men through our lineup doesn’t actually help much if they can’t move the puck out of our zone.

I don't believe there's such a thing as a decent defenseman that can't move the puck out of the defensive zone. Moving the puck out of the defensive zone is one of the basic non-negotiable skills for being called a good defenseman. If you can't do that, it doesn't really matter what else you do well.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Lamiorello isn't gonna meet the demands of a guy who asks for something reasonable given his production if it goes against Lou's antiquated concept of value.

So we're just banking on Lou being a dunce? I do believe that to be true, but not confidently enough to give up premium assets for Dobson.

Or perhaps he's let them know he intends to test free agency. Or at the least that he doesn't wis to resign with the NYI

In which case we also shouldn't be trading for him. See my point?

 

[Lebanezer]

So we're just banking on Lou being a dunce? I do believe that to be true, but not confidently enough to give up premium assets for Dobson.

Personally I don’t think it’s worth it to trade for him. If some similar player to him is available in 2 years then make the deal. Now it seems premature.

 

[Eklund72]

If we land Schaefer, that gives us Schaefer, Dickinson, Mukhamadullin and Cagnoni as LD’s for the future. I’d assume that would make one of Cagnoni and Mukhamadullin expendable.

Who would we keep, Muk or Cagnoni? I’d probably lean Cagnoni at this point in time

 

[Hodge]

If we land Schaefer, that gives us Schaefer, Dickinson, Mukhamadullin and Cagnoni as LD’s for the future. I’d assume that would make one of Cagnoni and Mukhamadullin expendable.

Who would we keep, Muk or Cagnoni? I’d probably lean Cagnoni at this point in time

I don't think this is a decision we will ever need to worry about. Odds of landing Schaefer are 25% even if we finish last and odds of Cagnoni surviving in the NHL are probably even lower than that.

 

[HockeyScout1425]

I had a thought that if we do land Schaefer, all of a sudden I'm a lot more comfortable in moving Dickinson in a package for Nemec in the offseason.

 

[HockeyScout1425]

I don't think this is a decision we will ever need to worry about. Odds of landing Schaefer are 25% even if we finish last and odds of Cagnoni surviving in the NHL are probably even lower than that.

Yeah. The points-obsessed content guys seem convinced Cagnoni is some epic sure-fire prospect, when in reality, you're basically hoping for a Sam Girard outcome. And he's certainly not even as quick as Girard is.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Personally I don’t think it’s worth it to trade for him. If some similar player to him is available in 2 years then make the deal. Now it seems premature.

I can't shake the feeling that the Sharks's best window is going to open up very soon. Think of Jonathan Toews (the Celebrini comparable); his peak was his 20-22 age seasons. While I expect that Celebrini will have a great career and a long prime, he might be playing the best hockey of his career relatively soon.

At that point, Askarov will likely be at his peak, as will complementary players like Eklund, and maybe even physical players like Musty. But Dickinson or even Schaefer are unlikely to be in that same sweet spot. Trading for someone like Byram, Dobson, etc. who could be legitimate top-pairing guys would solidify that team as a SC contender.

A strong counterpoint would be that maybe Dickinson and Schaefer won't be in their prime, but they'd still be great defensemen ala Makar or Hughes...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If we land Schaefer, that gives us Schaefer, Dickinson, Mukhamadullin and Cagnoni as LD’s for the future. I’d assume that would make one of Cagnoni and Mukhamadullin expendable.

Who would we keep, Muk or Cagnoni? I’d probably lean Cagnoni at this point in time

It's quite possible it makes them expendable but I'd probably move Cagnoni. The odds favor Mukhamadullin to be something at the NHL level. If you have Schaefer and Dickinson in your prospect pools, those are going to be your top two defensemen eventually. Cagnoni's types don't tend to fare very well at the depth level but Mukhamadullin's type does. But I don't see how most teams wouldn't value Mukhamadullin in a trade much more than Cagnoni at this stage. I would prefer not to move anyone with promise on defense. Next year should be a fairly open opportunity for Cagnoni and Mukhamadullin to make the Sharks if they're going to slow play Schaefer and Dickinson which is a reasonable possibility.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Miro Heiskanen was 20 year old when he took the Stars to a Stanley Cup Final.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Miro Heiskanen was 20 year old when he took the Stars to a Stanley Cup Final.

True, and I mentioned that that would be the counterpoint...Schaefer and/or Dickinson will hit the ground running.

But for every Heiskanen, there are 2-4 Owen Powers.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

If we land Schaefer, that gives us Schaefer, Dickinson, Mukhamadullin and Cagnoni as LD’s for the future. I’d assume that would make one of Cagnoni and Mukhamadullin expendable.

Who would we keep, Muk or Cagnoni? I’d probably lean Cagnoni at this point in time

bold: i may look to sell high on Muk anyway. Not sure hes any more than a 5 but a team could value him as a top 4 potential still due to size and draft pedigree.

 

[Hodge]

Miro Heiskanen was 20 year old when he took the Stars to a Stanley Cup Final.

Yeah if Schaefer is all he's cracked up to be he should be a Norris candidate by his D+2/D+3 season like Heiskanen, Makar, Hughes, EK65, Doughty before him.

 

[STL Shark]

Bottom 10 in scoring the past 4 years, this year they have even scored less than the Sharks…let that sink in.

Let it sink in that the only year that he scored at that pace there was 1) a midseason coaching change and 2) it was the only time that the Islanders were not in the top 7 of goals against during a stretch of like 6-7 years.

Erik Karlsson scored 100 points on a low scoring Sharks team because he literally didn't play defense. My guess is that the 1 year boom of Dobson scoring was because of something very similar, and the stats surrounding the situation in team performance would bear that out.

If we land Schaefer, that gives us Schaefer, Dickinson, Mukhamadullin and Cagnoni as LD’s for the future. I’d assume that would make one of Cagnoni and Mukhamadullin expendable.

Who would we keep, Muk or Cagnoni? I’d probably lean Cagnoni at this point in time

Keep the 6'4 guy that still has a role if he's not playing 3+ mins of power play time every night. Easiest answer imaginable.

 

[Juxtaposer]

True, and I mentioned that that would be the counterpoint...Schaefer and/or Dickinson will hit the ground running.

But for every Heiskanen, there are 2-4 Owen Powers.

Yeah, and I think Schaefer will do that. His accomplishments in the calendar year 2024 are:

- Come out of nowhere (meaning relative anonymity to 99% of people including me, not that he doesn't have pedigree) to be the best defenseman on the gold medal-winning Canadian U18 team as an underager.

- Captain the Canadian Hlinka team to a gold medal as by far the best player in the tournament, which included Gavin McKenna (who is only three months younger than Schaefer, by the way).

- Come back from mono and play so well in 17 OHL games to be named to the Canadian WJC team as an underager (19 year old Denver Barkey also had mono this summer and his start was so slow that he played himself off the team when he would have been a lock otherwise) AND immediately be by far the best player on that team.

This guy isn't Owen Power. He's not going to take until 25 to "figure it out", which is what probably happens with Dickinson. All Schaefer's done is take on new and higher level challenges and excel in them. I'm extremely confident that the NHL will be no different, as it wasn't for Celebrini.

bold: i may look to sell high on Muk anyway. Not sure hes any more than a 5 but a team could value him as a top 4 potential still due to size and draft pedigree.

There's no "selling high" on Mukhamadullin at this point. I doubt he has very much trade value at all, considering he's almost 23 and can't consistently crack the worst defense group in the NHL.

Keep both him and Cagnoni because one of them probably doesn't pan out and you don't want to be stuck with the one that didn't while the other flourishes elsewhere. Ask the Ducks how that feels.

Yeah if Schaefer is all he's cracked up to be he should be a Norris candidate by his D+2/D+3 season like Heiskanen, Makar, Hughes, EK65, Doughty before him.

Right. I get that I'm probably higher on Schaefer than anyone else, but that's what I see.

 

[Hodge]

Kolyachonok might be worth a claim.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It’d be interesting if we claimed Kolyachonok.

 

[Cas]

It’d be interesting if we claimed Kolyachonok.

I haven't seen him, but he sounds like another Mukhamadullin, just with more NHL experience?

He's under contract at $775,000 for one more year, so I'm fine with that (maybe we could use Muk or Thrun in a trade).

 

[Star Platinum]

It's quite possible it makes them expendable but I'd probably move Cagnoni. The odds favor Mukhamadullin to be something at the NHL level. If you have Schaefer and Dickinson in your prospect pools, those are going to be your top two defensemen eventually. Cagnoni's types don't tend to fare very well at the depth level but Mukhamadullin's type does. But I don't see how most teams wouldn't value Mukhamadullin in a trade much more than Cagnoni at this stage. I would prefer not to move anyone with promise on defense. Next year should be a fairly open opportunity for Cagnoni and Mukhamadullin to make the Sharks if they're going to slow play Schaefer and Dickinson which is a reasonable possibility.

I think we should be equally cautious about how productive either Cagnoni or Mukhamadullin might be with a full-time role at the NHL level. The only way to know about either of them is for them to get extended time on the big club and see what their warts are balanced against whatever unique things they can bring to the table.

That said, I think people should take a look at what Cagnoni did last night to create the second Barracuda goal.

 

[Lebanezer]

I think we should be equally cautious about how productive either Cagnoni or Mukhamadullin might be with a full-time role at the NHL level. The only way to know about either of them is for them to get extended time on the big club and see what their warts are balanced against whatever unique things they can bring to the table.

That said, I think people should take a look at what Cagnoni did last night to create the second Barracuda goal.

Cagnoni is good and will play NHL games. Probably a lot of them. I wouldn't be surprised to see him make his NHL debut this year.