Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[CHALUPA]

Should probably bleach Puljujarvi's tongue while you're at it. We know where it's been.

Tonguepunching his sniffbox

 

[CHALUPA]

I just look for posts with pictures in them.



Like this.

That picture is moving though, so I didn’t quite understand

 

[coooldude]

TL;DR for those who can't read more than three sentences at a time: I think we need to trade for a legit top-4 defenseman (a Walman quality of player) this summer and then a top-6 winger (the "reverse Timo Meier trade", as I've been thinking about it) the following summer (or in-season 2025-2026) for this team to start to coalesce into a real thing. Our biggest hole, #1D, almost certainly needs to be addressed via the draft.

Eklund-Celebrini-XXX
XXX-Smith-XXX
XXX-XXX-Zetterlund
XXX-XXX-XXX

XXX-XXX
XXX-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren

Askarov
XXX

Working solely with what we have already in the NHL, this would be my long-term framework. Franchise 1C is taken care of. I believe in Smith becoming a good 2C (60-65 points and not a liability defensively). I like Zetterlund as a long-term piece, I just don't think he belongs in the top-6 of a contending team unless it's the third wheel to two legit superstars (ie Thornton/Pavelski, don't think Eklund quite gets there).

I know there are some competing opinions on Liljegren, and he obviously isn't a world-beater, but given how scarce RHD who are mobile and can move the puck are, I think we should keep him around. Mukhamadullin has shown me enough to project him as a #5D at worst, and best case he is a legit middle pairing type of guy that all contender quality teams have on their bottom pairings.

Askarov is Askarov. He's already so good and yet also clearly has so much room for improvement. I think the goal this summer should be to sign a very good backup/1B type of goaltender who can give us 30 starts and step in if Askarov falters at any point during the season. I think he has the potential to be the second best player on this team, and lord knows elite goaltending can cover up a lot of deficiencies in skaters.

Now if you add in things that we have in the system, but not in the NHL, I would put it like this:

Eklund-Celebrini-XXX
Musty-Smith-XXX
Chernyshov-Bystedt-Zetterlund
Cardwell-XXX/Svoboda-XXX

XXX-XXX
Dickinson-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Cagnoni

Askarov
XXX

So to me, the big holes that we currently have organizationally are, assuming the goal is to contend for a Stanley Cup consistently:

1. True #1D
2. 1st line RW at least as good as Eklund
3. Guy who can complement a true #1D and play top pairing minutes (does not have to be a true #2D)--someone like Dante Fabbro/John Marino, these types are always available
4. Low-event #4 RHD--also someone like Dante Fabbro/John Marino
5. Top-6 winger who meshes with Smith

Other than "True #1D", the good thing is that the rest of these needs can absolutely be addressed via trade, UFA, and non-lottery picks. Huge reason why I'm all-in on Schaefer.

If you do land Schaefer, then you can start going in on trades and exiting the rebuild.

Eklund-Celebrini-[Reverse Timo Meier trade]
Musty-Smith-[2026 ~10th overall pick]
Chernyshov-Bystedt-Zetterlund
Cardwell-[UFA/Svoboda]-[Svoboda/UFA]

Schaefer-[Trade]
Dickinson-[Trade/UFA]
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Cagnoni

Askarov
[UFA]

If we don't land Schaefer and instead get someone like Hagens/Misa/Martone, then your forward group is basically taken care of, but the D-core is more of a problem. You probably have to get more creative to solve the problem. It's hard to project a team with a hole as big as "True #1D".

Bottom line is we have most of the important pieces in the system. Other than #1D, the rest are things that I think we can pursue in trades and UFA starting this summer.

Obviously, this is not taking into consideration veterans, who will presumably come into and out of the lineup over the years, as there's always changeover. I'm not totally sold on Musty as a 2LW, so maybe he needs to drop in the lineup and 2LW becomes a need too. Maybe Halttunen works out and Musty doesn't. But again, second line winger isn't something I'm terribly concerned with.

There's a lot to like with this franchise. Still missing that one last elite piece...

very solid assessment. In my mind the bottoming out is done after this draft, but with how long it takes to truly build a contender (not just a playoff team), I suspect some of your organizational holes ID'd will still be filled in 2026-29 drafts. I believe, with continued luck and good building by Grier, that we could be a true contender by 30-31, when Celebrini is just 24-25. Then we hopefully have a 5-10yr window.

If we make the moves you're describing AND everyone hits their ceiling, from Smith to Dickinson and beyond, maybe we could get deeper into the playoffs faster.

 

[weastern bias]

 

[Juxtaposer]

very solid assessment. In my mind the bottoming out is done after this draft, but with how long it takes to truly build a contender (not just a playoff team), I suspect some of your organizational holes ID'd will still be filled in 2026-29 drafts. I believe, with continued luck and good building by Grier, that we could be a true contender by 30-31, when Celebrini is just 24-25. Then we hopefully have a 5-10yr window.

If we make the moves you're describing AND everyone hits their ceiling, from Smith to Dickinson and beyond, maybe we could get deeper into the playoffs faster.

Yeah, I went best "moderately reasonable" case scenario on the projections. It's technically possible that Eklund becomes a superstar Selke-caliber winger, that Smith becomes an 80 point centerman, that Dickinson has an Alex Vlasic type of "lightbulb went on" moment and becomes an excellent top-pairing D. But it would be silly to rely on any of those things happening. And any of those depth pieces (Bystedt, Chernyshov, Musty, etc.) could easily bust and be replaced by vets.

Definitely not expecting the Sharks to be Cup contenders in the next three years; as you said, if we're a playoff team when Celebrini is 21, then I like our odds of elevating into a contender when he's 23ish. I would consider the Devils, my favorite rebuild from the last decade, and imagine that we're five years behind them (lining up Hughes and Celebrini in age).

I don't expect the level of lottery luck endowed to the Devils, but a top-4 pick this year, a top-10 pick next year, a big trade or signing, a surprise playoff run, a little regression, that's sort of how I'm expecting the next few years to play out as we start to plug the holes in that lineup.

 

[timorous me]

TL;DR for those who can't read more than three sentences at a time: I think we need to trade for a legit top-4 defenseman (a Walman quality of player) this summer and then a top-6 winger (the "reverse Timo Meier trade", as I've been thinking about it) the following summer (or in-season 2025-2026) for this team to start to coalesce into a real thing. Our biggest hole, #1D, almost certainly needs to be addressed via the draft.

Eklund-Celebrini-XXX
XXX-Smith-XXX
XXX-XXX-Zetterlund
XXX-XXX-XXX

XXX-XXX
XXX-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren

Askarov
XXX

Working solely with what we have already in the NHL, this would be my long-term framework. Franchise 1C is taken care of. I believe in Smith becoming a good 2C (60-65 points and not a liability defensively). I like Zetterlund as a long-term piece, I just don't think he belongs in the top-6 of a contending team unless it's the third wheel to two legit superstars (ie Thornton/Pavelski, don't think Eklund quite gets there).

I know there are some competing opinions on Liljegren, and he obviously isn't a world-beater, but given how scarce RHD who are mobile and can move the puck are, I think we should keep him around. Mukhamadullin has shown me enough to project him as a #5D at worst, and best case he is a legit middle pairing type of guy that all contender quality teams have on their bottom pairings.

Askarov is Askarov. He's already so good and yet also clearly has so much room for improvement. I think the goal this summer should be to sign a very good backup/1B type of goaltender who can give us 30 starts and step in if Askarov falters at any point during the season. I think he has the potential to be the second best player on this team, and lord knows elite goaltending can cover up a lot of deficiencies in skaters.

Now if you add in things that we have in the system, but not in the NHL, I would put it like this:

Eklund-Celebrini-XXX
Musty-Smith-XXX
Chernyshov-Bystedt-Zetterlund
Cardwell-XXX/Svoboda-XXX

XXX-XXX
Dickinson-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Cagnoni

Askarov
XXX

So to me, the big holes that we currently have organizationally are, assuming the goal is to contend for a Stanley Cup consistently:

1. True #1D
2. 1st line RW at least as good as Eklund
3. Guy who can complement a true #1D and play top pairing minutes (does not have to be a true #2D)--someone like Dante Fabbro/John Marino, these types are always available
4. Low-event #4 RHD--also someone like Dante Fabbro/John Marino
5. Top-6 winger who meshes with Smith

Other than "True #1D", the good thing is that the rest of these needs can absolutely be addressed via trade, UFA, and non-lottery picks. Huge reason why I'm all-in on Schaefer.

If you do land Schaefer, then you can start going in on trades and exiting the rebuild.

Eklund-Celebrini-[Reverse Timo Meier trade]
Musty-Smith-[2026 ~10th overall pick]
Chernyshov-Bystedt-Zetterlund
Cardwell-[UFA/Svoboda]-[Svoboda/UFA]

Schaefer-[Trade]
Dickinson-[Trade/UFA]
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Cagnoni

Askarov
[UFA]

If we don't land Schaefer and instead get someone like Hagens/Misa/Martone, then your forward group is basically taken care of, but the D-core is more of a problem. You probably have to get more creative to solve the problem. It's hard to project a team with a hole as big as "True #1D".

Bottom line is we have most of the important pieces in the system. Other than #1D, the rest are things that I think we can pursue in trades and UFA starting this summer.

Obviously, this is not taking into consideration veterans, who will presumably come into and out of the lineup over the years, as there's always changeover. I'm not totally sold on Musty as a 2LW, so maybe he needs to drop in the lineup and 2LW becomes a need too. Maybe Halttunen works out and Musty doesn't. But again, second line winger isn't something I'm terribly concerned with.

There's a lot to like with this franchise. Still missing that one last elite piece...

Something I was thinking about today (besides the need for the name change for the 2025 draft prospects thread) was how the complaints about our forwards and lack of offense from them are really exacerbated by the lack of offense from the blue line (especially with Walman out)--but not just offense in the way we think about it typically, but the ability to escape the defensive zone with possession and actually do something with it.

That ties into your thoughts and desires for the build of this team, I think--and I agree on Lily having some usefulness going forward with this in mind. Walman, too, potentially--but we'll have to see how things shake out with the draft.

I was also thinking about Cagnoni and how he might fit in (if everything goes ideally in terms of having a left side in a few years of Schaefer, Dickinson, and Mukhamadullin), and I wonder if it could work eventually to put him on the right side with Shak. Cagnoni could certainly be useful in such a situation (though maybe not as needed on the PP if Schaefer arrives), but I think Shak would have to become a little stronger/more assertive/less tentative in his defending for that pairing to work. But that could definitely happen in a few years.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

very solid assessment. In my mind the bottoming out is done after this draft, but with how long it takes to truly build a contender (not just a playoff team), I suspect some of your organizational holes ID'd will still be filled in 2026-29 drafts. I believe, with continued luck and good building by Grier, that we could be a true contender by 30-31, when Celebrini is just 24-25. Then we hopefully have a 5-10yr window.

If we make the moves you're describing AND everyone hits their ceiling, from Smith to Dickinson and beyond, maybe we could get deeper into the playoffs faster.

I think they didn't intend to bottom out this year. It's just the natural progression of last year's bottoming out and the team's awful blue line needing time to really get staples there as answers. I think they sort of expect to build their blue line pairings around at least Dickinson and Mukhamadullin. Who you get to play with them can determine how successful next year's team could be. I think their forward issues are at a point where you can be patient with additions. They have their answer in net. If they can't find a number one, they should look to get as strong of answers as are available on the right side. I'd sign any two of Ekblad, Fabbro, or Pionk or one of them and someone who is a solid RHD vet for the 3rd pairing like maybe someone of Kovacevic's profile. They figure out the blue line and get a couple more top-nine or top-six caliber forwards and you got a competitive team that could surprise and get to the playoffs.

 

[hockeyball]

TL;DR for those who can't read more than three sentences at a time: I think we need to trade for a legit top-4 defenseman (a Walman quality of player) this summer and then a top-6 winger (the "reverse Timo Meier trade", as I've been thinking about it) the following summer (or in-season 2025-2026) for this team to start to coalesce into a real thing. Our biggest hole, #1D, almost certainly needs to be addressed via the draft.

Eklund-Celebrini-XXX
XXX-Smith-XXX
XXX-XXX-Zetterlund
XXX-XXX-XXX

XXX-XXX
XXX-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren

Askarov
XXX

Working solely with what we have already in the NHL, this would be my long-term framework. Franchise 1C is taken care of. I believe in Smith becoming a good 2C (60-65 points and not a liability defensively). I like Zetterlund as a long-term piece, I just don't think he belongs in the top-6 of a contending team unless it's the third wheel to two legit superstars (ie Thornton/Pavelski, don't think Eklund quite gets there).

I know there are some competing opinions on Liljegren, and he obviously isn't a world-beater, but given how scarce RHD who are mobile and can move the puck are, I think we should keep him around. Mukhamadullin has shown me enough to project him as a #5D at worst, and best case he is a legit middle pairing type of guy that all contender quality teams have on their bottom pairings.

Askarov is Askarov. He's already so good and yet also clearly has so much room for improvement. I think the goal this summer should be to sign a very good backup/1B type of goaltender who can give us 30 starts and step in if Askarov falters at any point during the season. I think he has the potential to be the second best player on this team, and lord knows elite goaltending can cover up a lot of deficiencies in skaters.

Now if you add in things that we have in the system, but not in the NHL, I would put it like this:

Eklund-Celebrini-XXX
Musty-Smith-XXX
Chernyshov-Bystedt-Zetterlund
Cardwell-XXX/Svoboda-XXX

XXX-XXX
Dickinson-XXX
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Cagnoni

Askarov
XXX

So to me, the big holes that we currently have organizationally are, assuming the goal is to contend for a Stanley Cup consistently:

1. True #1D
2. 1st line RW at least as good as Eklund
3. Guy who can complement a true #1D and play top pairing minutes (does not have to be a true #2D)--someone like Dante Fabbro/John Marino, these types are always available
4. Low-event #4 RHD--also someone like Dante Fabbro/John Marino
5. Top-6 winger who meshes with Smith

Other than "True #1D", the good thing is that the rest of these needs can absolutely be addressed via trade, UFA, and non-lottery picks. Huge reason why I'm all-in on Schaefer.

If you do land Schaefer, then you can start going in on trades and exiting the rebuild.

Eklund-Celebrini-[Reverse Timo Meier trade]
Musty-Smith-[2026 ~10th overall pick]
Chernyshov-Bystedt-Zetterlund
Cardwell-[UFA/Svoboda]-[Svoboda/UFA]

Schaefer-[Trade]
Dickinson-[Trade/UFA]
Mukhamadullin-Liljegren
Cagnoni

Askarov
[UFA]

If we don't land Schaefer and instead get someone like Hagens/Misa/Martone, then your forward group is basically taken care of, but the D-core is more of a problem. You probably have to get more creative to solve the problem. It's hard to project a team with a hole as big as "True #1D".

Bottom line is we have most of the important pieces in the system. Other than #1D, the rest are things that I think we can pursue in trades and UFA starting this summer.

Obviously, this is not taking into consideration veterans, who will presumably come into and out of the lineup over the years, as there's always changeover. I'm not totally sold on Musty as a 2LW, so maybe he needs to drop in the lineup and 2LW becomes a need too. Maybe Halttunen works out and Musty doesn't. But again, second line winger isn't something I'm terribly concerned with.

There's a lot to like with this franchise. Still missing that one last elite piece...

Awesome Jux, thanks for the thoughtful response!

 

[Juxtaposer]

Something I was thinking about today (besides the need for the name change for the 2025 draft prospects thread) was how the complaints about our forwards and lack of offense from them are really exacerbated by the lack of offense from the blue line (especially with Walman out)--but not just offense in the way we think about it typically, but the ability to escape the defensive zone with possession and actually do something with it.

That ties into your thoughts and desires for the build of this team, I think--and I agree on Lily having some usefulness going forward with this in mind. Walman, too, potentially--but we'll have to see how things shake out with the draft.

I was also thinking about Cagnoni and how he might fit in (if everything goes ideally in terms of having a left side in a few years of Schaefer, Dickinson, and Mukhamadullin), and I wonder if it could work eventually to put him on the right side with Shak. Cagnoni could certainly be useful in such a situation (though maybe not as needed on the PP if Schaefer arrives), but I think Shak would have to become a little stronger/more assertive/less tentative in his defending for that pairing to work. But that could definitely happen in a few years.

I remember them trying Cagnoni on the right side during NHL camp this fall, thinking it was a good idea and probably his best shot at being a full-time NHLer. Not sure if anything came of it.

 

[Canucks LB]

Q&A: Canucks GM Patrik Allvin expects more from top players in 2025

In 2024, the Canucks have given their fans much to be thankful for — but, they've also failed many nights to play to their standard. Iain MacIntyre sits down with GM Patrik Allvin to discuss why the team has struggled with consistency and reflect on the season thus far.

www.sportsnet.ca

This is absolutely blowing up in Vancouver right now by the way.
Looks like Pettersson is available
Allvin went on blast basically, Not sure what you guys would offer, or how seriously you would be interested, He would obviously need a Haul.
But, just thought I would share and get your guys opinions!
Not everyday a 90+ Center with great Defensive abilities becomes available.

Thoughts?

 

[MackAttack71]

We had this discussion before. No thanks.

 

[The Nemesis]

Q&A: Canucks GM Patrik Allvin expects more from top players in 2025

In 2024, the Canucks have given their fans much to be thankful for — but, they've also failed many nights to play to their standard. Iain MacIntyre sits down with GM Patrik Allvin to discuss why the team has struggled with consistency and reflect on the season thus far.

www.sportsnet.ca

This is absolutely blowing up in Vancouver right now by the way.
Looks like Pettersson is available
Allvin went on blast basically, Not sure what you guys would offer, or how seriously you would be interested, He would obviously need a Haul.
But, just thought I would share and get your guys opinions!
Not everyday a 90+ Center with great Defensive abilities becomes available.

Thoughts?

This was litigated on here not long ago when someone brought up Petterson and the consensus seems to be that what Vancouver would want likely exceeds what the Sharks would be willing to spend and what the Sharks could spare without creating more holes in the rebuild roster wouldn't be enough to move the needle for Vancouver unless Petterson's situation becomes untenable.

 

[Canucks LB]

This was litigated on here not long ago when someone brought up Petterson and the consensus seems to be that what Vancouver would want likely exceeds what the Sharks would be willing to spend and what the Sharks could spare without creating more holes in the rebuild roster wouldn't be enough to move the needle for Vancouver unless Petterson's situation becomes untenable.

i think the bigger issue is the sharks would only be able to do a futures package

 

[Star Platinum]

Q&A: Canucks GM Patrik Allvin expects more from top players in 2025

In 2024, the Canucks have given their fans much to be thankful for — but, they've also failed many nights to play to their standard. Iain MacIntyre sits down with GM Patrik Allvin to discuss why the team has struggled with consistency and reflect on the season thus far.

www.sportsnet.ca

This is absolutely blowing up in Vancouver right now by the way.
Looks like Pettersson is available
Allvin went on blast basically, Not sure what you guys would offer, or how seriously you would be interested, He would obviously need a Haul.
But, just thought I would share and get your guys opinions!
Not everyday a 90+ Center with great Defensive abilities becomes available.

Thoughts?

The kinds of trades the Sharks should be making right now are 2nd round and later picks for role players and trading their own pending free agents for more picks. Now is not the time to be trying to chase a fast return to the playoffs and sucking up cap space. Sharks are still missing way too many pieces and most of the young guys aren't in the NHL yet.

 

[Jargon]

Can he be a #1 defenseman? If not, we’re good.

 

[Coffee]

Can he be a #1 defenseman? If not, we’re good.

Would you risk trading 3 first round picks for Hughes

 

[OrrNumber4]

Cagnoni had shown that he can be an extremely dominant AHL player at age 19. That bodes extremely well for his NHL future. Kvetch about his size, but don't forget that his stats are exceptional.

 

[Shark Finn]

Would you risk trading 3 first round picks for Hughes

Three Sharks first rounders 2025–2027? No way... José.

And welcome to the Sharks board, I hope you enjoy your visit.

 

[mogambomoroo]

If Pettersson can be acquired for a low price (which is not happening) definitely would be interested. Eklund - Pettersson - Zetterlund 2nd line would be amazing on paper. But then again it would similar to Toronto/Tavares situation with acquiring a 1-2C with over 11mil cap before anyone of the core is signed... So I think it's safe to say that it's almost impossible for both parties.

Only thing that sucks for us, is that Pettersson is somehow going to find his way to Vegas, just watch it happen.

 

[Shark Finn]

If Pettersson can be acquired for a low price (which is not happening) definitely would be interested. Eklund - Pettersson - Zetterlund 2nd line would be amazing on paper. But then again it would similar to Toronto/Tavares situation with acquiring a 1-2C with over 11mil cap before anyone of the core is signed... So I think it's safe to say that it's almost impossible for both parties.

Only thing that sucks for us, is that Pettersson is somehow going to find his way to Vegas, just watch it happen.

Besides, what the f*ck is wrong with the guy? Seems like he can't handle adversity, pressure or anything else. He got paid like a superstar, now play like it.

 

[matt trick]

How much will we be paying Celebrini when he vastly outplays Pettersson? Not what we need now, but we can check back in in 3 years.

 

[Shark Finn]

How much will we be paying Celebrini when he vastly outplays Pettersson? Not what we need now, but we can check back in in 3 years.

Duh. We are trading Celebrini for Pettersson.

 

[Patty Ice]

I remember them trying Cagnoni on the right side during NHL camp this fall, thinking it was a good idea and probably his best shot at being a full-time NHLer. Not sure if anything came of it.

I suggested they do that at the beginning of summer but what I think they are doing is letting him get use to the pro game for a full season before having him learn to play his offside.

Long term I believe this is his best path to the NHL and our best defensive LD prospect to make that move.

 

[mogambomoroo]

Duh. We are trading Celebrini for Pettersson.

Canucks fans already putting the trade requests. In their mind Celebrini and Bedard are going to be there as soon as possible.

 

[Hodge]

We don't need offensive defensemen. We need defensemen who can defend.