Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[hohosaregood]

Out of curiosity what about his development track has been compromised? I was under the impression he had an outstanding season last year.

I think it's the off puck play and attitude are concerning. I saw some comments from Sudbury fans claiming his off puck play was getting better but also some bad on ice body language and conduct. So pretty mixed bag right now but not exactly the trajectory of a bonafide top 6er.

 

[TheBeard]

Why do people want to trade Musty? Besides Hodge, I know why he wants to trade him.

Because we need RD and Brandon Coe doesn’t have much trade value.

 

[Lebanezer]

Yea he did for sure, but then this season he forced to go back to the OHL, held out on his team for a trade that didn't manifest, and had to play on a team that wasn't aiding in his full-game development. Now he broke his hand and will miss the WJC (which he didnt make last year) and his injury will likely keep him out after the trade deadline, locking him onto said unhelpful team.

Plenty of kids put up insane numbers in the CHL and can't capture that in the NHL. Since putting up said insane numbers, seemingly everything has been working against him. Considering this season - a critical one for development - might end up being entirely lost, it's logical to think his development has been compromised.

Maybe i'm being alarmist but i'm not feeling confident about him at all

This is definitely being an alarmist. He's only 19, and didn't realistically have a chance to force his way onto an NHL roster. The only option was for him to go back to the OHL. His full game development is something he can work on even when playing for a bad team, and if he wants to make the Sharks sooner than later that's exactly what he needs to do. His season won't be entirely lost, he'll come back from his injury and still have plenty of games left to improve. And if he isn't traded he can play some games with the Barracuda after the Wolves are eliminated from playoff contention.

I think it's the off puck play and attitude are concerning. I saw some comments from Sudbury fans claiming his off puck play was getting better but also some bad on ice body language and conduct. So pretty mixed bag right now but not exactly the trajectory of a bonafide top 6er.

He's already made it clear that he doesn't want to play for Sudbury, and given his age, I don't think it's surprising that he showed his displeasure at times. Especially since the Wolves are a bad team. Him being pissed about not making the Sharks is a good thing if it motivates him to work on the things that the team needs him to. I don't think we need to make a judgement about his trajectory at this point.

 

[tiburon12]

This is definitely being an alarmist.

ok but.....

He's only 19, and didn't realistically have a chance to force his way onto an NHL roster. The only option was for him to go back to the OHL.

Obv not his fault but the reality that he has to play in a league below his level is a undisputed minus towards development.

His full game development is something he can work on even when playing for a bad team, and if he wants to make the Sharks sooner than later that's exactly what he needs to do.

Sure, but does this team have the resources to help him that way? all accounts are that they do not. Plus he wants out. Not a good mix if you're hoping for an ideal outcome.

His season won't be entirely lost, he'll come back from his injury and still have plenty of games left to improve. And if he isn't traded he can play some games with the Barracuda after the Wolves are eliminated from playoff contention.

Ok "entirely lost" was hyperbolic. My thought is more that this fraction of a season can't possibly be sufficient for him to take the necessary next steps that he would have needed to take over a full season to become the top-6 winger we expect him to be.

There is still a chance he hits but undoubtedly that chance is smaller now thanks to this range of mitigating factors.

 

[StrawHatEklund]

For Jiriceck, I’m okay with some combo of either Musty/Bystedt + a 2nd and maybe Ferraro or Rutta. I really don’t want to trade Mukh or any D prospects.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

ok but.....

Obv not his fault but the reality that he has to play in a league below his level is a undisputed minus towards development.

Sure, but does this team have the resources to help him that way? all accounts are that they do not. Plus he wants out. Not a good mix if you're hoping for an ideal outcome.

Ok "entirely lost" was hyperbolic. My thought is more that this fraction of a season can't possibly be sufficient for him to take the necessary next steps that he would have needed to take over a full season to become the top-6 winger we expect him to be.

There is still a chance he hits but undoubtedly that chance is smaller now thanks to this range of mitigating factors.

Idk, while unfortunate he has to stay OHL for his D+2, it’s hardly unusual that a 19 year old doesn’t make an NHL roster. And the framing that if he looses a portion of his D+2 season it’s all over seems pretty alarmist. Players get injured, timelines shift, shrug.

He can make the most of whatever season he gets, regroup in the off season, and spend next year on the Cuda. Maybe he spends an additional development season or half beyond that, making up for lost development time, working on his game in the AHL. That puts in in the NHL at age 21/22 instead of 20 and roughly on the same timeline that Toffoli took; which seems fine to me.

Eklund had what I think we can all agree was a disastrous D+1, perhaps delaying his arrival by a season, but he’s doing fine. Obviously pedigree is a bit different between the two, but I’d wager late first rounders breaking in to the NHL at 21/22 years old is probably a pretty positive outcome historically.

I’d be concerned if there was evidence his development has stalled, but aside from a less than perfect development environment and a fluke injury (that seems unlikely to be chronic), I’ve seen no actual evidence that his development has stalled.

 

[Patty Ice]

Out of curiosity what about his development track has been compromised? I was under the impression he had an outstanding season last year.

I think it's the "we can't have nice things" attitude that has developed in the fan base.

Once something goes awry, it's a foregone conclusion that the worst outcome will come to pass.

 

[timorous me]

Yea he did for sure, but then this season he forced to go back to the OHL, held out on his team for a trade that didn't manifest, and had to play on a team that wasn't aiding in his full-game development. Now he broke his hand and will miss the WJC (which he didnt make last year) and his injury will likely keep him out after the trade deadline, locking him onto said unhelpful team.

Plenty of kids put up insane numbers in the CHL and can't capture that in the NHL. Since putting up said insane numbers, seemingly everything has been working against him. Considering this season - a critical one for development - might end up being entirely lost, it's logical to think his development has been compromised.

Maybe i'm being alarmist but i'm not feeling confident about him at all

Compromised might be a bit of a strong word, but I get where you're coming from. But I'm choosing--with the Spirit of 71 guiding me--to take a more relaxed, sanguine perspective with Musty.

Has this year (and just in general being on a not great for development OHL team) set back his progress and development? Yeah, for sure. It's been a hell of a mess of a season for him.

But he's so young still that there's no reason to believe this has to be more than a setback. There are still ways to grow as a player even when not playing. And we all know he has some fantastic talent, he's got good size. But he's always struck me as the type who's going to take a little longer than we thought to develop and become an NHL regular, especially one who's a positive contributor.

Is it the worst thing if he spends most of next season learning how to be a pro in the AHL? It might feel like delayed gratification, it might feel like he's not on the right path...but even next year he'll only be 20. He's got time, and the Sharks have time. Timo Meier, for instance, became a Sharks regular at 21, but still played fewer than 15 minutes per game with under 0.5 ppg.

And I know it might be ridiculous, but I also have this fantasy of Celebrini as this uber-leader within a couple years, kind of Crosby-esque in the way even at a young age he'll have the talent, drive, and leadership to take others around him--especially a talented forward of a similar age like Musty--under his wing and basically whip them into shape.

 

[Jargon]

Power forwards usually take longer to develop. Timo had a really up and down development curve. I genuinely think Musty is going to be VERY good and I’d love to keep him. You just have to trade something of value for Jiricek and he’s likely worth taking a risk on. If we end up losing the trade sweepstakes I’d be happy to keep Musty. Maybe Grier can somehow convince them to take like Cam Lund?! Or he can perform whatever spell he did on Yzerman and we get Jiricek and a 2nd for Bailey and a 3rd.

 

[tiburon12]

I think it's the "we can't have nice things" attitude that has developed in the fan base.

Once something goes awry, it's a foregone conclusion that the worst outcome will come to pass.

For me it's more the "let's consider the odds against our expectations".

The reason I'm feeling down on his development path is that I was feeling really up on his development. But these setbacks have lowered the chance he hits as a consistent top-6 winger on a winning team, which is what many projected him to be after a killer D+1 season. It was already a low chance, now it is lower.

So much has to go right for players to hit, but now four major things are going wrong (missing the start of the season, being in Sudbury, injury, missing the WJC) and I'm seeing that window for success getting smaller and smaller. Thinking realistically, I don't think he'll reach those new expectations as a result.

I think @timorous me was right, "compromised" was not the right word. Decelerated might be better. Decelerated enough that I need to lower my expectations.

 

[coooldude]

I think it's the "we can't have nice things" attitude that has developed in the fan base.

Once something goes awry, it's a foregone conclusion that the worst outcome will come to pass.

Agreed. You take the realistic, probabilistic approach that most prospects do not become impact players, even from the first round... and you add 34 years of evidence that we cannot indeed have the nicest things, and you get the foregone conclusions. Only an awesome run of luck/success will change our collective psyches. Celebrini was step 1, and we need a Dickinson hit and 1-2 more exceptional outcomes and we'll have a real window that could heal the wounds.

 

[OverTheLine]

I like our wing prospects as much as the next guy, but wing is basically the easiest position to fill out with free agents and trades once the rebuild enters the compete stage. Defense is a much bigger challenge and the more chances to hit we have in our war chest the better.

Grier has already in many areas demonstrated himself to be a more astute GM than DW (whose unfortunate final stretch has had people underrate his overall career, which was excellent), but one area I'm not sure of is the blockbuster big game hunting in which DW was arguably the best GM in the league during his tenure. I'm not sure Grier is going to be able to pull Norris winners out of a Devin Setoguchi-shaped hat, so I'd rather we set ourselves up best we can to home grow a #1D even if it means gambling a good-bet winger in Musty for a not-so-sure thing in Jiricek.

 

[Jargon]

I like our wing prospects as much as the next guy, but wing is basically the easiest position to fill out with free agents and trades once the rebuild enters the compete stage. Defense is a much bigger challenge and the more chances to hit we have in our war chest the better.

Grier has already in many areas demonstrated himself to be a more astute GM than DW (whose unfortunate final stretch has had people underrate his overall career, which was excellent), but one area I'm not sure of is the blockbuster big game hunting in which DW was arguably the best GM in the league during his tenure. I'm not sure Grier is going to be able to pull Norris winners out of a Devin Setoguchi-shaped hat, so I'd rather we set ourselves up best we can to home grow a #1D even if it means gambling a good-bet winger in Musty for a not-so-sure thing in Jiricek.

I’d say his Askarov trade was pretty blockbustery. We’ll see the end result but arguably the best goalie prospect in the world for a bottom 6 forward prospect and likely a very late 1st was a great deal. But yes, agreed with the premise!

 

[OrrNumber4]

If we're talking about wingers with stunted development, Chernyshov is the one I am worried about. That shoulder injury is costing him quite a bit of development time.

 

[one2gamble]

If we're talking about wingers with stunted development, Chernyshov is the one I am worried about. That shoulder injury is costing him quite a bit of development time.

and its a shoulder injury, those have a tendency to not go away

 

[TheBeard]

If we're talking about wingers with stunted development, Chernyshov is the one I am worried about. That shoulder injury is costing him quite a bit of development time.

Eh, he's not even 19 yet. I wouldn't worry just yet.

 

[landshark]

If we're talking about wingers with stunted development, Chernyshov is the one I am worried about. That shoulder injury is costing him quite a bit of development time.

I thought he got a bad sunburn.

 

[weastern bias]

I thought he got a bad sunburn.

Zetterlund?

 

[TheBeard]

Zetterlund?

He just takes Viagra before every game.

 

[landshark]

Zetterlund?

ahahahahahaha

Zetts gets red due to sheer effort exerted... I think.

Cherny:

Last I'd heard he had a bad sunburn and couldn't go to dev camp.


Rabbit hole.... WTF does Demidov have to do with Responsible Gambling??!?!

 

[landshark]

He just takes Viagra before every game.

Shoulda named it "Teal Chew"

 

[TheBeard]

Shoulda named it "Teal Chew"

The real "blue vodka" of tahoe.

 

[weastern bias]

He just takes Viagra before every game.

Hard on the forecheck

 

[TheBeard]

Hard on the forecheck

Gripping the stick too tight.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Gripping the stick too tight.

He really gets up for every game