Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Juxtaposer]

Pavelski scored 41 that year, Burns scored 22 in 69 games and we gave up next to nothing defensively. The biggest issue was never having a fully healthy lineup which carried over into the playoffs but in terms of roster strength it was better than the 2016 team. We made it further in 2016 mostly because Thornton randomly had another Hart level season out of nowhere while our health and goaltending largely held up in the playoffs. Also the Kings and Blackhawks fell off.

I don’t think any of that contradicts my statement tbh. Vlasic was absolutely elite that year, and when he got injured the team absolutely fell apart, aided and abetted by Niemi being so horrific in the playoffs to the point where IIRC we actually started Stalock in the playoffs for a game.

You’re right about Pavelski, I was thinking he was closer to 30 goals. But Thornton, our most important player, has a down year. You aren’t going anywhere when your 1C is mediocre, your best defenseman by a literal mile gets hurt, and your goaltender collapses. I don’t think that was a deep team at all. Neither was 2016, but our top end players all had elite seasons and Hertl was great too.

I mean, isn’t that what playoff hockey is, catching lightening in a bottle? Whatever the 2014 Sharks were, they were the opposite of that. Health is the most important factor in the playoffs and forward Burns was constantly hurt because of his forecheck-heavy style. I remember him being absolutely useless in the playoffs.

 

[Star Platinum]

I think we will be very disappointed if we're relying on Walman as a PP1 guy. At that rate, just go back to the 5 forward look.

Walman is getting less PP time throughout his career than noted offensive defenseman Marc-Edouard Vlasic did in his prime. He's played fewer PP minutes in his career in the NHL than Vlasic played in some years alone, and we all know how poor Vlasic is as a PP guy.

Walman has a big shot and that's the major extent of his offense. That will play up nicely at ES when it is less predictable, but on the PP it is a miscalculation by Grier to assume that he's going to be able to run a PP (something he said in one of his availabilities recently). Need a different option there if the goal is to go away from the 5F look.

I think we will be disappointed at the blue line play on the power play regardless of which 2 defensemen get time on the #1 unit.

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

In 2015-16, the Sharks were 14-14-1 on Dec. 12. Couture came back from his injury around that time, and then the Sharks went 32-16-5 the rest of the way (the split is bigger if you use Jan. 7 as the date). They were a different team. It was not surprisingly they did well in the playoffs.

The parallel case is 2008-09. They were 32-5-5 on Jan. 13, 21-13-6 the rest of the season. Lost in the first round when Getzlaf outplayed Thornton.

My recollection of the 2014 playoffs was they looked great in the first two games, finally scoring on the rush compared to the earlier Thornton teams. They lucked out in OT in Game 3, and then Kings adjusted and the Sharks did not.

 

[Barrie22]

In 2015-16, the Sharks were 14-14-1 on Dec. 12. Couture came back from his injury around that time, and then the Sharks went 32-16-5 the rest of the way (the split is bigger if you use Jan. 7 as the date). They were a different team. It was not surprisingly they did well in the playoffs.

The parallel case is 2008-09. They were 32-5-5 on Jan. 13, 21-13-6 the rest of the season. Lost in the first round when Getzlaf outplayed Thornton.

My recollection of the 2014 playoffs was they looked great in the first two games, finally scoring on the rush compared to the earlier Thornton teams. They lucked out in OT in Game 3, and then Kings adjusted and the Sharks did not.

I wouldn't go as far as saying getzlaf outplayed thornton. When he was carrying around dead weight in marleau (3 points in 6 games), and pavelski (1 point in 6 games)

 

[Bizz]

They lucked out in OT in Game 3, and then Kings adjusted and the Sharks did not.

By "adjusted" you mean blatant slewfoot by Jarret Stoll on Vlasic combined with Brown's repeated knee hunting on Hertl knocking them both out of the series all while the Refs looked the other way, then I guess.

My favorite is DW's reactionary signing of John Scott that offseason. Too little too late there, broski.

aided and abetted by Niemi being so horrific in the playoffs to the point where IIRC we actually started Stalock in the playoffs for a game.

Niemi had already had 3 suspect playoff performances up until that point. I remember him falling apart in the Kings series back in 2011 and Niittymaki of all people had to pick up the slack, lucky we ended up winning that game or that probably would have been an even more embarrassing series loss than 2009 Anaheim.

Then there was that series against the Blues in 2012. Probably the worst playoff performance by a Sharks goalie ever. That's when he should've been shown the door. DW holding on to him for 3 more seasons during Thornton's prime was probably the biggest reason why he retired without a Cup and I'll never forgive him for that. Horrible mismanagement on his part.

 

[Lebanezer]

Sometimes those couple of months is enough to make a career out of like Tommy Wingels. Sometimes it's not.

Wingels is actually a great comp. He was genuinely pretty good in 2012-2013, but was sub-NHL level pretty much every other year.

Wingels was one of the worst playoff performers in Sharks history given his opportunities. 8 points in 58 games, 2 goals, 1 ENG.

 

[Munnyro]

Wingels was one of the worst playoff performers in Sharks history given his opportunities. 8 points in 58 games, 2 goals, 1 ENG.

That's player development coach Wingels to you sir.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Wingels was one of the worst playoff performers in Sharks history given his opportunities. 8 points in 58 games, 2 goals, 1 ENG.

Yeah, he was exceptionally bad in the playoffs.

 

[DG93]

By "adjusted" you mean blatant slewfoot by Jarret Stoll on Vlasic combined with Brown's repeated knee hunting on Hertl knocking them both out of the series all while the Refs looked the other way, then I guess.

My favorite is DW's reactionary signing of John Scott that offseason. Too little too late there, broski.



Niemi had already had 3 suspect playoff performances up until that point. I remember him falling apart in the Kings series back in 2011 and Niittymaki of all people had to pick up the slack, lucky we ended up winning that game or that probably would have been an even more embarrassing series loss than 2009 Anaheim.

Then there was that series against the Blues in 2012. Probably the worst playoff performance by a Sharks goalie ever. That's when he should've been shown the door. DW holding on to him for 3 more seasons during Thornton's prime was probably the biggest reason why he retired without a Cup and I'll never forgive him for that. Horrible mismanagement on his part.

That 2012 offseason was a colossal failure by the franchise imo. It was an embarrassing performance by a team that was coming off of two WCF appearances. At a bare minimum, Niemi and TMac should have both been fired into the sun with DW's leash being adjusted to microscopically small. I think the poor decision making that offseason is what led to the 3-year debacle that followed and culminated in the 2014-2015 clownshow.

 

[weastern bias]

Then there was that series against the Blues in 2012. Probably the worst playoff performance by a Sharks goalie ever. That's when he should've been shown the door. DW holding on to him for 3 more seasons during Thornton's prime was probably the biggest reason why he retired without a Cup and I'll never forgive him for that. Horrible mismanagement on his part.

I'm pretty sure I'm on Bizz's ignore list because I dared to criticize the almighty Erik Karlsson, but this is a great example of the "quality" discourse I'm missing out on because Antti Niemi was the single best Sharks player in the 2012 Blues series

He posted a .952%, .906%, .852%, .917%, and a .923% in a 5 game series loss, totaling out to a .914% for the series and only allowed 13 goals on 151 shots while playing behind the 7 seed matching up with the 2 seed in the old playoff format

He had one bad game in a series where his team got curbstomped, that was Antti Niemi's single greatest performance as a San Jose Shark, at least in the postseason

Not gonna lie, I responded to this because Bizz and Hodge have the same profile pick, but once I quoted it things made a lot more sense, Hodge would never say something so patently untrue

 

[tiburon12]

Y'all keep talking about 14 vs 16 vs 19, but 13 was our best team IMO.

 

[Bizz]

Y'all keep talking about 14 vs 16 vs 19, but 13 was our best team IMO.

Our top line Winger that season was Martin Havlat.

So no, 13 wasn't anywhere near our best team ever.

 

[weastern bias]

19>16>14=13

 

[tiburon12]

Our top line Winger that season was Martin Havlat.

So no, 13 wasn't anywhere near our best team ever.

Wrong, our top line was Thornton, Burns, Galiardi

Ok: edit, depends on what one views the top line was. In those years i default to Jumbo's line being line one. But you're right, Havlat was on "line 1"

To add:
These were the lineups:

SHARKS FORWARDS

Line 1: Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture, Marty Havlat
Line 2: TJ Galiardi, Joe Thornton, Brent Burns
Line 3: Raffi Torres, Joe Pavelski, Tommy Wingels
Line 4: Andrew Desjardins, Scott Gomez, Adam Burish
SHARKS DEFENSE

Matt Irwin, Dan Boyle
Marc-Edouard Vlasic, Brad Stuart
Justin Braun, Scott Hannan/Matt Tennyson
INJURED: Jason Demers

Not much offense from that D but plenty of firepower up front. Balanced lines with Pavs and Gomez as 3/4 Cs too. That team was awesome and deserved better than getting unfairly Torres'd.

AND niemi was a vezina finalist that year

 

[weastern bias]

Wrong, our top line was Thornton, Burns, Galiardi

Who could forget the spinning backhand top shelf beauty in game 6?

 

[weastern bias]

Remember when Martin Havlat shattered his kneecap coming over the boards?

Good times

 

[Munnyro]

Remember when Martin Havlat shattered his kneecap coming over the boards?

Good times

Hard to believe.

 

[Eggdoh]

Remember when Martin Havlat shattered his kneecap coming over the boards?

Good times

I'm pretty sure he tore his groin, right?

 

[hohosaregood]

19>16>14=13

weird, i really didn't enjoy our 2019 team like at all. i remember thinking they looked terrible. or maybe just martin jones.

 

[Juxtaposer]

weird, i really didn't enjoy our 2019 team like at all. i remember thinking they looked terrible. or maybe just martin jones.

Huh, I whole-heartedly disagree. I loved the 2019 Sharks because they were the first Sharks team I could remember that could simply outscores their problems.

 

[tiburon12]

weird, i really didn't enjoy our 2019 team like at all. i remember thinking they looked terrible. or maybe just martin jones.

In those playoffs, and during the season, jones would give up a bad early goal like clockwork and jsut deflate the team.

I think back Jones was still thought of as a good goalie, so i remember equating the situation to having a partner you know is cheating on you, but you're too worried about losing face to publicly admit/address it

 

[sampler]

So i have kinda resigned to stinking in 24-25, though I hope they can get some value in deadline deals dishing grablund, Kunin, and strum. Maybe a bag o pucks for Ruuta too. Let’s say they get a first for Granlund and a few late rounders for the others. That would mean three first rounders and an warly 30s second. 4 more high end prospects to come….

Then I was thinking about 25-26, and I couldnt Help but lick my chops…

The sharks are going to have half a forward lineup on Elcs:

Smith, celly, and Eklund will develop this year and should be ready for business in their 2/3rd years.

Then, you know at least 2 or 3 (or more) of musty, Bystedt, Edstrom, Chernyshov, cardwell, gushkin, Halttunen, and graf will be ready for top 9 roles. Musty seems closest but Say Bystedt and Halttunen are ready too as they are ‘23 picks.

That gives you smith, Celebrini, Eklund, muaty, Bystedt, and Halttunen as 6 of your top 9. Add in Zetterlund and Toffoli and Wennberg and you have a nice forward lineup that costs nothing. Then dellandrea, goodrow, and grndstrum are a fine fourth line.

say mukh does well this year. Dickinson will likely be ready given his size and skill are already close.

So hopefully you have two of your top 4 ready to go also on minimal deals.

Basically the sharks will have some 40m in cap space to add two top 4 D and 2 top line forwards and an army of super quality 19-22 year olds.

If Grier does well in summer 2025, the Sharks could be set up for an amazing 25-26 run.

I wonder who will be out there and if Grier can land the top ufas: ekblad and provorov would sure be nice. Adam Larsson would be another nice target. Theodore if he can have a healthy year would be pretty good too. There are definitely some solid late 20, early 30 vet dmen.

There’s also a very nice crop of ufa forwards. Many will be resigned early of course, but draisaitl, rantanen, marner, boeser and many others.

If Grier can get 3 or 4 of those level guys at 8-10m per, then with cooch and pickles coming off the books shortly after, they will still still have the money to extend the expiring Elcs going forward.

I cannot remember a time when a team maybe legitimately have 6-8 top 9 Fs and top 4d on ELCs as we should in 2025. What a setup…

 

[hohosaregood]

Huh, I whole-heartedly disagree. I loved the 2019 Sharks because they were the first Sharks team I could remember that could simply outscores their problems.

Looking back at some old posts, it looks like I really hated Jones that year, that Braun was slower than a slug, and that some combo of Micheal Haley, Radil, and Melker playing (over Donskoi?)

 

[Juxtaposer]

Looking back at some old posts, it looks like I really hated Jones that year, that Braun was slower than a slug, and that some combo of Micheal Haley, Radil, and Melker playing (over Donskoi?)

Jones was bad, and Braun and Vlasic were in clear decline. Probably the downfall of that team. But Burns and Karlsson were fantastic and the top-9 was the deepest it’s ever been.

 

[weastern bias]

weird, i really didn't enjoy our 2019 team like at all. i remember thinking they looked terrible. or maybe just martin jones.

That team had so many fun moments

The comeback in Nashville

Hertl's dueling hat tricks with Ovi

The last second win in Winnipeg

The allstar game at home

The Power Play

Couture's road hat trick in Colorado, take a bow

The handpass (fun until it wasn't, lol)

I was so in love with that team, and the tragedy was you could tell the players believed so hard that year, when Tamp blew it in the first round I really though we had a chance

I'm pretty sure he tore his groin, right?

I think those were two separate injuries, but maybe not, Havlat was a tragic figure during his Sharks tenure, some new exciting ailment felled him every other day

I do distinctly remember hearing the phrase "pelvic floor reconstructive surgery" in regard to him, and, well, f***, but also, God damn