Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[sampler]

Btw, I’m still holding hope for Tyson Barrie!

 

[weastern bias]

Btw, I’m still holding hope for Tyson Barrie!

I'd certainty welcome it, he's basically the exact player we need right now

Feels like we're just talking in circles here. You say Laine is a bum who hasn't produced at a high level since his first couple of seasons, I provide data to show he's basically a PPG player over the last 3 seasons and now you say there's too many unknowns. Round and round we go. I guess at this point, we'll just have to see how Laine does this year. I think he's going to surprise you (and a lot of others, apparently).

Raffi Torres was a point per game player during his last season in the NHL, not all samples are large enough to be meaningful when assessing a player's value as a scorer, let alone when you have to ignore the other obvious warts in their game

 

[matt trick]

If Couture is able to play that'd be real sweet:

Eklund-Granlund-Zetterlund
Koistin-Celebrini-Tofolli
Wennberg-Couture-Smith
Goody-Sturm-Kunin/Dellandrea
Grundstrom, Kunin/Dellandrea

Each of the rookies gets a top 6 vet and middle 6 guy (Possibly less in Koistin's case). I'm curious the org's stack rank of Dellandrea, Goody, Koistin, Kunin, and Grundstrom. I do think Wennberg is 6/7th, but the rest are all legitimate bottom 6 guys. By ACV Dellandrea is 13/14 (Couture pending), but they gave up more for him then Grendstrom or Goody.

If Couture isn't able to go, I'd probably put Wennberg and Dellandrea on Smith's wings, but I'd be open to a Musty-Wennberg-Smith line if Musty performs great in camp.

Lastly, I think I'd like to see Barrie/Schultz picked up. Walman-Emberson, Ferraro-Barrie, Thrun-Vlasic/Benning/Ruuta.

It's still an awful lot of 4-7 guys, but at least they are NHL caliber. Much improved two-way forward play should help the d-men, and having three puck movers should help the forwards. We'll still get shelled, but I think capably getting out of the zone would be an improvement. Given Benning and Emberson's injuries, potential trade of one or two of Ruuta/Ferraro/Walman/Barrie, and performance mgmt of a bunch of mediocre guys, I think carrying 8 d-men makes sense.

Muk arrives midyear as a reinforcement unless he is the best guy d-man in camp. If Walman or Ferraro could slide into the 2nd pair RHD, and he's ready, I'd probably bring Muk up faster. In this scenario it's possible Barrie ends up riding the pine, but he'd bring a different skill set of the other guys in the 5-8 spots.

Walman-Emberson
Muk-Ferraro
Two of Thrun/Vlasic/Barrie/Ruuta

The alternative is you keep an eye on waivers for a puck-moving RHD. I don't like that we have zero offensively inclined RHD. I think it'd help the PP (as will Walman and/or Muk), and I do think the oppty to play on a decent PP could lead to a lot of points.

 

[sampler]

Sharks need a #1 offensive dman. Their success the last two decades was largely based on having Boyle or burns in the lineup. Yes, they had much more support from ehrhoff to Blake but they had a clear #1. Barrie is obviously not that caliber but he is a 50 pt dman when healthy. Deangelo is another high risk high reward option out there.

What’s the worst that can happen if you give barrie 1 yr 3m? It’s not like he takes a roster spot from a clearly upcoming rookie. Ruuta, pickles, Benning, are all the past. Emberson, mukh and Thrun are the possible future but none are ready to be top guys yet.

Barrie, if healthy, gives the sharks a real pp threat and a vet. Worse case scenario he gets injured (cost 3m but who cares) or he sucks defensively on a clearly weak team, woopdidoo!

Best case, he rocks it and the sharks actually compete or he’s dealt for a solid pick at the deadline.

I see no real downside.

 

[weastern bias]

Deangelo is another high risk high reward option out there.

Deangelo has been figured out, not only is he one of the worst defensive players in the league, he doesn't provide high enough caliber offense to offset it and teammates hate him enough that his own backup goalie punched him in the face, absolutely do NOT want

 

[Friday]

Yeah wut Deangelo lol

 

[OrrNumber4]

It seems like contracts are getting out of hand again...

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Even if Laine wasn't an enormous defensive liability, why would we bring a confirmed headcase into the locker room while trying to integrate two young franchise cornerstones into professional hockey? And we're supposed to give up assets do this when he makes 9 million a year?

I don't think the Sharks have the right locker room for him either, but calling him a headcase due to mental issues is just beyond f***ed. That headcase is already more successful than you will ever be hodgy.

I'd certainty welcome it, he's basically the exact player we need right now


Raffi Torres was a point per game player during his last season in the NHL, not all samples are large enough to be meaningful when assessing a player's value as a scorer, let alone when you have to ignore the other obvious warts in their game

Torres was a hell of a player though anyways. If he didn't essentially get ran out/injured out of the league, he'd have still been effective.

 

[Hodge]

I don't think the Sharks have the right locker room for him either, but calling him a headcase due to mental issues is just beyond f***ed. That headcase is already more successful than you will ever be hodgy.

For the record, I also don't think the Sharks should give up assets to pay me $9M/yr to play for them.

 

[weastern bias]

Torres was a hell of a player though anyways. If he didn't essentially get ran out/injured out of the league, he'd have still been effective.

If he wasn't such a dirty POS he would have been a beloved depth scorer like a Joel Ward was for us, guy had a knack for scoring big goals in big moments, he just also had a brain-seeking missile in his shoulder pad

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't think the Sharks have the right locker room for him either, but calling him a headcase due to mental issues is just beyond f***ed. That headcase is already more successful than you will ever be hodgy.

Torres was a hell of a player though anyways. If he didn't essentially get ran out/injured out of the league, he'd have still been effective.

eh the Sharks locker room would have a lot of good things to offer for someone like Laine. We don't have any real expectations or spotlight. We don't have a coach that draws attention to themselves or lashes out in a public manner like Torts. We don't seem to have a group of established players that would require him to conform in some manner. He could just be himself and play and see what happens. For someone looking for a fresh start, that's a pretty sweet setup to walk into.

 

[timorous me]

Sharks need a #1 offensive dman. Their success the last two decades was largely based on having Boyle or burns in the lineup. Yes, they had much more support from ehrhoff to Blake but they had a clear #1. Barrie is obviously not that caliber but he is a 50 pt dman when healthy. Deangelo is another high risk high reward option out there.

What’s the worst that can happen if you give barrie 1 yr 3m? It’s not like he takes a roster spot from a clearly upcoming rookie. Ruuta, pickles, Benning, are all the past. Emberson, mukh and Thrun are the possible future but none are ready to be top guys yet.

Barrie, if healthy, gives the sharks a real pp threat and a vet. Worse case scenario he gets injured (cost 3m but who cares) or he sucks defensively on a clearly weak team, woopdidoo!

Best case, he rocks it and the sharks actually compete or he’s dealt for a solid pick at the deadline.

I see no real downside.

At this point, I'd really just rather see the team give Mukhamadullin a shot this year to see how he can contribute. #1 offensive d-man? I mean, no, not this year--but he's got some talent in that regard and I'd love to see him start to show what he might have to offer in that regard. Certainly more than I'd want to see a 33-year-old Barrie or, god forbid, Tony Deangelo.

 

[weastern bias]

At this point, I'd really just rather see the team give Mukhamadullin a shot this year to see how he can contribute. #1 offensive d-man? I mean, no, not this year--but he's got some talent in that regard and I'd love to see him start to show what he might have to offer in that regard. Certainly more than I'd want to see a 33-year-old Barrie or, god forbid, Tony Deangelo.

I'm more concerned what the lack of a true puck moving PP1 option dman will do to our young forwards, it's very likely to stifle their production and likely to hinder their confidence

I've never been a huge fan of Barrie, he's a very limited player, but he has a long history of producing on top power play units with talented forwards, the element he does bring is one of the things we're most in need of at this very moment, I think he'd be an incredible addition

A PP1 of:

Toffoli-Celebrini-Eklund
Smith-Barrie

That has the potential to be legitimately productive while our young guys learn on the fly

 

[coooldude]

I won't claim to be an expert, but the fact that Barrie is still unsigned means to me that I doubt he's coming to the Sharks. I still think they're waiting until closer to season, or even first 2 months, to make a trade for a RD or a PP1/PP1-ish D.

 

[timorous me]

I'm more concerned what the lack of a true puck moving PP1 option dman will do to our young forwards, it's very likely to stifle their production and likely to hinder their confidence

I've never been a huge fan of Barrie, he's a very limited player, but he has a long history of producing on top power play units with talented forwards, the element he does bring is one of the things we're most in need of at this very moment, I think he'd be an incredible addition

A PP1 of:

Toffoli-Celebrini-Eklund
Smith-Barrie

That has the potential to be legitimately productive while our young guys learn on the fly

I'm not too concerned about that. Our power play was pretty solid in the second half of last season, and that was without Toffoli (not that he's a puck-moving option, but he should still help) and now you can add Celebrini and Smith to the mix.

There's enough talent available overall there that it shouldn't be some terrible, damaging experience.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm not too concerned about that. Our power play was pretty solid in the second half of last season, and that was without Toffoli (not that he's a puck-moving option, but he should still help) and now you can add Celebrini and Smith to the mix.

There's enough talent available overall there that it shouldn't be some terrible, damaging experience.

I think their top unit going into preseason will probably end up being Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli with Thrun and Smith on the points. And if Thrun doesn't contribute as they want, they'll go with five forwards and have Granlund in his spot.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I think their top unit going into preseason will probably end up being Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli with Thrun and Smith on the points. And if Thrun doesn't contribute as they want, they'll go with five forwards and have Granlund in his spot.

I think the top PP will be Celebrini-Toffoli-Eklund-Smith-Granlund.

Maybe Walman will be on the point with his shot. Also I doubt Bords makes the Sharks team but if he does it is probably to play on the PP1 as he was a big factor in that PP ending the season so strong.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think the top PP will be Celebrini-Toffoli-Eklund-Smith-Granlund.

Maybe Walman will be on the point with his shot. Also I doubt Bords makes the Sharks team but if he does it is probably to play on the PP1 as he was a big factor in that PP ending the season so strong.

I forgot about Walman. Walman will probably be in there over Thrun.

 

[coooldude]

Yeah, I think it'll be more like

PP1
Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Granlund-Walman

PP2
Zetterlund-Smith-XXX (flavor of the week, Bords, Wennberg, Kostin, Dellandrea, Kunin god help us)
Thrun-Benning or Thrun-Emberson

And the wildcard is whether Mukh can make the squad at some point and play LD on PP1 or 2, pushing the F out and balancing the lines a bit better.

Really not great when you look at the depth without Couture (who I still believe won't play 10 games this year). It'll still be a struggle of a year.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Yeah, I think it'll be more like

PP1
Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli
Granlund-Walman

PP2
Zetterlund-Smith-XXX (flavor of the week, Bords, Wennberg, Kostin, Dellandrea, Kunin god help us)
Thrun-Benning or Thrun-Emberson

And the wildcard is whether Mukh can make the squad at some point and play LD on PP1 or 2, pushing the F out and balancing the lines a bit better.

Really not great when you look at the depth without Couture (who I still believe won't play 10 games this year). It'll still be a struggle of a year.

It’s amazing how now that we have Celebrini everyone seems to forget how good of a prospect Smith is. Smith has a greater offensive ceiling than Celebrini and is probably right now a better offensive PP playmaker than Celebrini. He should not be an afterthought playing 3rd line with low skill bottom 6 wings and he should be on the 1st PP unit instead of resigned to the wasteland the 2nd unit will be.

 

[coooldude]

It’s amazing how now that we have Celebrini everyone seems to forget how good of a prospect Smith is. Smith has a greater offensive ceiling than Celebrini and is probably right now a better offensive PP playmaker than Celebrini. He should not be an afterthought playing 3rd line with low skill bottom 6 wings and he should be on the 1st PP unit instead of resigned to the wasteland the 2nd unit will be.

Maybe. Prospects don't immediately become PP1 players automatically. Maybe he takes Eklund's place, maybe he's a 5th F, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him on PP2 and I will be surprised if he starts on PP1.

 

[Juxtaposer]

It’s amazing how now that we have Celebrini everyone seems to forget how good of a prospect Smith is. Smith has a greater offensive ceiling than Celebrini and is probably right now a better offensive PP playmaker than Celebrini. He should not be an afterthought playing 3rd line with low skill bottom 6 wings and he should be on the 1st PP unit instead of resigned to the wasteland the 2nd unit will be.

There’s no disrespect in putting 19 year old Will Smith on PP2.

FWIW I think he and Celebrini end up on PP1 together and I actually think their PP roles are complementary. But teenagers should be worked in gently.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Maybe. Prospects don't immediately become PP1 players automatically. Maybe he takes Eklund's place, maybe he's a 5th F, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him on PP2 and I will be surprised if he starts on PP1.

Just the fact that Smith is right handed almost guarantees him pp1 time. Your pp1 with 4 left handed players and Toffoli would be a disaster.

 

[coooldude]

Just the fact that Smith is right handed almost guarantees him pp1 time. Your pp1 with 4 left handed players and Toffoli would be a disaster.

We'll see. Glad to see you came out of hiding to share your glorious salt with us all!

 

[Juxtaposer]

Just the fact that Smith is right handed almost guarantees him pp1 time. Your pp1 with 4 left handed players and Toffoli would be a disaster.

Just like the Bordeleau (LH), Eklund (LH), Granlund (LH), Thrun (LH), and Zetterlund was a disaster?