Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

Herschel

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Dec 8, 2009
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I've always gotten the sense Vlasic hates the media. As a guy who got a massive earned raise (that we shouldn't have offered!) for years of underpay and elite performance who promptly fell off (don't think it was intentional- common with his type of player), it's not surprising.

If he thought he was still an elite (or even good) d-man, he'd be causing tons of trouble. I think he knows he's not good anymore, but sees how bad the team was and asked himself- am I actually worse? I think the answer to that regrettably, is yes. But as a proud guy who was once an elite defensive d-man, I've got some sympathy for him, and gratitude for his good underpaid years. If SJ won a cup he'd be adored for what he did during those years.

These comments do make me think that buying him out next year would be wise. It extends the cap hit a year, but it's off the books the year Celebrini and Smith will be up for new contracts.
If Vlasic is a toxic in-room time bomb, which management, media or teammates have never even hinted at, then why wait to buy him out, why wouldn't they have done that prior year or this season.

I think in the end, Vlasic is a serviceable bottom pairing veteran on a bottom end team. He is not preventing any of the young D from getting into the line up as the coaching staff, at least last season, had no issues putting him in the press box. And despite whatever the fans think, there is no indication he is any sort of issue in the dressing room.
 

Alaskanice

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Sep 23, 2009
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If Vlasic is a toxic in-room time bomb, which management, media or teammates have never even hinted at, then why wait to buy him out, why wouldn't they have done that prior year or this season.

I think in the end, Vlasic is a serviceable bottom pairing veteran on a bottom end team. He is not preventing any of the young D from getting into the line up as the coaching staff, at least last season, had no issues putting him in the press box. And despite whatever the fans think, there is no indication he is any sort of issue in the dressing room.
Well said.
 

coooldude

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I’m sorry, but I don’t get how any of this is toxic or out of touch. In summary:
  • He didn’t ask for a trade, he was told the team was going to make moves to get better prior to the season; but they did nothing.
  • It took the team finishing last and getting 1OA/Celebrini, but at least the team has made some moves to get better this offseason
  • The player additions and new coach give him and other players excitement to start next season
  • Yeah, yeah, Celebrini; he’s more excited about the new additions of NHL veterans
  • On Quinn: thought he’d get into more games since the team was losing and losing badly. All that is moot because the Sharks have a new coach
  • On Warsofsky: thinks the players will respond better and have a better connection to him
Like, literally none of this is remotely controversial or inaccurate, barring perhaps the typical veteran attitude that values established players over rookies. As comments made on the sidelines of an offseason golf tournament these are pretty vanilla.

IMO y’all are reading way more into these comments than are there.
I didn't share it to say we should buy him out or that he shouldn't be in the locker room. I shared it because the quotes show that:

1) he was surprised management didn't really try to make the team better in 2023 and was surprised we traded karlsson, which insinuates that he thinks we could have built a playoff lineup with EK (out of touch)
2) he was surprised he wasn't getting played even on a bad team - out of touch that he's washed, and puts it all on Quinn
3) he thinks the team is doing enough to be a playoff contender. Complete upside surprise would be bubble team at best

Those I thought were toxic in the sense that you shouldn't probably say that to anyone even at a golf tournament, and that he just seems very oblivious to the situation he and the franchise were/are in.

I think it's fine to have him as a grumbly old man in the corner of the locker room, but I'd rather we trade for a better RD so he spends half the season in the press box.
 

Cas

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Vlasic wore the "A" for a few seasons a while back. So there is some leadership there.
That was eight years ago now.

Despite being the longest-tenured Shark, with a career of over 1200 NHL games, and an Olympic gold medal, the Sharks still haven't seen fit to return his "A" in almost a decade.

They gave an "A" to a guy they liked so much, they resigned him for one year at less than his qualifying offer (Kunin).

What does that say about his leadership today?
 

Juxtaposer

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Dec 21, 2009
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I suspect Vlasic just does not watch any hockey at all. It would explain why he thinks the Sharks should be going for the playoffs, why he thinks he’s good enough to play, and why the new generation of creative speedsters has completely passed him by. Combine that with the ego of a once-great athlete and I think it accounts for everything we’ve seen from him the last six years.
 

Jargon

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Apr 12, 2011
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I suspect Vlasic just does not watch any hockey at all. It would explain why he thinks the Sharks should be going for the playoffs, why he thinks he’s good enough to play, and why the new generation of creative speedsters has completely passed him by. Combine that with the ego of a once-great athlete and I think it accounts for everything we’ve seen from him the last six years.

I also just think that self analysis is very difficult for some people and I think it’s much easier to blame the coach, the team, your playing time, etc. than your own lack of work or age, or whatever it is that’s holding him back.
 
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mogambomoroo

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A little offseason nail biting question:

Next season guaranteed Stanley Cup with short term old group and you have trade Celebrini, Smith + other young players for it to happen (Sharks org & fans get their Stanley Cup but with cost of losing all the futures and the journey to the cup with your favorite players)
OR
Build a team with Celebrini, Smith + other young players with no guarantee, BUT there is still a chance to win the Stanley Cup one day? (this is what we are basically doing right now)

This came to my mind since ultimately fans want the cup, but is it really only the cup? Or is the journey to the cup with the group you love that's even more important?
Even though it seems like no brainer to just get the Stanley Cup, I feel there is something missing if they just got a team full of short term players only to win it without the journey with the young players and the storylines.
I would probably still choose the youth way, since it has a possibility to be anything between bust and dynasty.
 
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Jargon

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A little offseason nail biting question:

Next season guaranteed Stanley Cup with short term old group and you have trade Celebrini, Smith + other young players for it to happen (Sharks org & fans get their Stanley Cup but with cost of losing all the futures and the journey to the cup with your favorite players)
OR
Build a team with Celebrini, Smith + other young players with no guarantee, BUT there is still a chance to win the Stanley Cup one day? (this is what we are basically doing right now)

This came to my mind since ultimately fans want the cup, but is it really only the cup? Or is the journey to the cup with the group you love that's even more important?
Even though it seems like no brainer to just get the Stanley Cup, I feel there is something missing if they just got a team full of short term players only to win it without the journey with the young players and the storylines.
I would probably still choose the youth way, since it has a possibility to be anything between bust and dynasty.

Youth choice all the way. The journey/story of a team is half the fun.
 

Pinkfloyd

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It’s whatever with Vlasic. Unless something happens with the Emberson negotiations that ends up in an arbitration process that opens up a second buyout window, management is content with eating another year of Vlasic’s contract. Since there hasn’t been issues with benching him, I’m alright with it but I’d like something to happen to address the blue line besides Walman. One new face isn’t going to magically make it better.
 

jMoneyBrah

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I didn't share it to say we should buy him out or that he shouldn't be in the locker room. I shared it because the quotes show that:

1) he was surprised management didn't really try to make the team better in 2023 and was surprised we traded karlsson, which insinuates that he thinks we could have built a playoff lineup with EK (out of touch)
2) he was surprised he wasn't getting played even on a bad team - out of touch that he's washed, and puts it all on Quinn
3) he thinks the team is doing enough to be a playoff contender. Complete upside surprise would be bubble team at best

Those I thought were toxic in the sense that you shouldn't probably say that to anyone even at a golf tournament, and that he just seems very oblivious to the situation he and the franchise were/are in.

I think it's fine to have him as a grumbly old man in the corner of the locker room, but I'd rather we trade for a better RD so he spends half the season in the press box.

1. If management told him they would make moves prior to last season to get better, which his comments indicate, and then they didn’t - it’s not unreasonable for him to be surprised. It’s also, from my understanding, very common for the players to not really concern themselves with the long term outlook of an organization. They, almost as a rule, are really hyper focused on the the upcoming/current season. This is not unique to Vlasic, and IMO is right and good. I’m not saying management didn’t do the right thing, I’m just saying from Vlasic’s vantage point it could be surprising the roster wasn’t improved prior to the start of the season.

2. I feel like Vlasic’s contract heavily influences informed Sharks fans’ opinion on the player and his performances. If he was making $2M per season, him performing at a serviceable 3rd pairing level wouldn’t even merit comment. I think an argument could be made he played better or on par with anybody the Sharks deployed on their 3rd pairing. So when the Sharks are getting tuned up by 6,7,8 goals while Vlasic is in the press box, it’s not completely asinine for him to wonder if he’ll get in the next game. But ultimately, it was Quinn’s call, and Vlasic just stated the obvious. Now, I’ll not be reviewing lineup sheets to see if Vlasic was in any of the 10-2 losses to see if Vlasic is selectively ignoring any times he was in the lineup during the several curb-stomping the Sharks received. But in the end it’s such a nothing statement, why would anyone expect any player to say anything other than “I wasn’t in the lineup, but I should have been, I would have helped us win”. It’s not for players to take themselves out of lineups due to being incapable, players should always believe they can perform to a level that helps the team win. It’s for the coaching and front-office staffs to make the lineup and roster decisions.

3. I don’t know that I’d want my players to ever just accept the team is not playoff bound at the beggining of the season. By your logic any players from teams not named Panthers, Rangers, Oilers, or Dallas were delusional if they thought they were Cup contenders. Why would I hold it against a player on a bad team to convince themselves into thinking they have a shot at the playoffs? Firstly, who knows what can happen, the Oilers at one point were trending towards no playoffs and ended up in the Cup finals. Secondly, the season is a long grind and there is plenty of time for reality to beat a players hopes into submission; if starting with playoff hopes in the face of a subpar roster helps a player start the season motivated and hungry who are we to judge that?

As far as labeling these as toxic, perhaps we can review the meaning of the word. Toxic implies that these comments would harm the emotional well-being of a player or the team’s morale and I just don’t see how any of these comments do that. Like, at all. This is all pretty standard fare player narrative and the sort of commentary I’d fully expect players to share amongst themselves. Additionally, all reports to this point have indicated that the Sharks locker room was notably tight knit and positive throughout the season - so even if somehow an outside perspective might feel these comments are toxic - they didn’t function that way in the one place it actually matters.
 
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coooldude

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1. If management told him they would make moves prior to last season to get better, which his comments indicate, and then they didn’t - it’s not unreasonable for him to be surprised. It’s also, from my understanding, very common for the players to not really concern themselves with the long term outlook of an organization. They, almost as a rule, are really hyper focused on the the upcoming/current season. This is not unique to Vlasic, and IMO is right and good. I’m not saying management didn’t do the right thing, I’m just saying from Vlasic’s vantage point it could be surprising the roster wasn’t improved prior to the start of the season.

2. I feel like Vlasic’s contract heavily influences informed Sharks fans’ opinion on the player and his performances. If he was making $2M per season, him performing at a serviceable 3rd pairing level wouldn’t even merit comment. I think an argument could be made he played better or on par with anybody the Sharks deployed on their 3rd pairing. So when the Sharks are getting tuned up by 6,7,8 goals while Vlasic is in the press box, it’s not completely asinine for him to wonder if he’ll get in the next game. But ultimately, it was Quinn’s call, and Vlasic just stated the obvious. Now, I’ll not be reviewing lineup sheets to see if Vlasic was in any of the 10-2 losses to see if Vlasic is selectively ignoring any times he was in the lineup during the several curb-stomping the Sharks received. But in the end it’s such a nothing statement, why would anyone expect any player to say anything other than “I wasn’t in the lineup, but I should have been, I would have helped us win”. It’s not for players to take themselves out of lineups due to being incapable, players should always believe they can perform to a level that helps the team win. It’s for the coaching and front-office staffs to make the lineup and roster decisions.

3. I don’t know that I’d want my players to ever just accept the team is not playoff bound at the beggining of the season. By your logic any players from teams not named Panthers, Rangers, Oilers, or Dallas were delusional if they thought they were Cup contenders. Why would I hold it against a player on a bad team to convince themselves into thinking they have a shot at the playoffs? Firstly, who knows what can happen, the Oilers at one point were trending towards no playoffs and ended up in the Cup finals. Secondly, the season is a long grind and there is plenty of time for reality to beat a players hopes into submission; if starting with playoff hopes in the face of a subpar roster helps a player start the season motivated and hungry who are we to judge that?

As far as labeling these as toxic, perhaps we can review the meaning of the word. Toxic implies that these comments would harm the emotional well-being of a player or the team’s morale and I just don’t see how any of these comments do that. Like, at all. This is all pretty standard fare player narrative and the sort of commentary I’d fully expect players to share amongst themselves. Additionally, all reports to this point have indicated that the Sharks locker room was notably tight knit and positive throughout the season - so even if somehow an outside perspective might feel these comments are toxic - they didn’t function that way in the one place it actually matters.
This has spiraled way beyond my point of sharing the article. I wish I hadn't motivated you to spend this much brainpower on this topic.

Vlasic is and has always been a bit of a dry negative dude, he's fine in the locker room, I was surprised how open he was with the media and how out of touch he seemed, that was it.
 

ThePlanet

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Aug 13, 2008
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San Jose
It’s whatever with Vlasic. Unless something happens with the Emberson negotiations that ends up in an arbitration process that opens up a second buyout window, management is content with eating another year of Vlasic’s contract. Since there hasn’t been issues with benching him, I’m alright with it but I’d like something to happen to address the blue line besides Walman. One new face isn’t going to magically make it better.

What fortuitous timing...
 

jMoneyBrah

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
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South Bay
This has spiraled way beyond my point of sharing the article. I wish I hadn't motivated you to spend this much brainpower on this topic.

Vlasic is and has always been a bit of a dry negative dude, he's fine in the locker room, I was surprised how open he was with the media and how out of touch he seemed, that was it.

Hahaha. No worries my dude. Also, I can relate so much. I am often regretful of how much power (lulz, yeah right) my brain dedicates to certain topics. That bastard has a mind of its own.
 
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weastern bias

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Feb 3, 2012
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Vlasic has a $2.5M signing bonus this year and a $2M signing bonus next year that throw off the benefit of buying him out this offseason, but we're finally at the point where buying him out is no longer a disaster

Penalty if we did it this summer:

25 - $3,833,333
26 - $4,833,333
27 - $1,333,333
28 - $1,333,333

Next summer:

26 - $4,666,667
27 - $1,166,667

I'd rather wait one more year if we can so there's no penalties that overlap with Celebrini and Smith's second contracts

Sure he's out of touch and grumpy, hockey players are dumb as rocks and all think they're a move away from winning the cup and aging talents are always in denial once their game has slipped away

Vlasic was the 9th best defenseman on one of the worst defenses of all time last year, his presence would not be missed in the slightest, but he probably does still have some cache in the room as a seasoned vet who's seen deep runs, hopefully the team thinks they can stomach at least one more year of his presence for the sake of our future cap ledger
 

WSS11

Registered User
Oct 7, 2009
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With the comments today from Askarov’s agent, what do you all think the asking price would be from Nashville? Ferraro +++? Would be awesome to get a great goalie prospect in the pipeline.
 
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