Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[PattyLafontaine]

Experience is next to meaningless if you do not possess the talent. It just makes you suck a bit less. I think people forget that most hockey players do not graduate from college, and while going to college isn't a requisite for being smart, for every guy who dropped out of Harvard, MIT that was a genuis there are millions of people witha high school education that typically fall within the standard deviation of intelligence. Chances are the dude who got a high school education isn't going to be a member of Mensa. Sure they may understand the game better than 99.9%, but that doesn't mean they have a clue about game theory, analytics, or negotiating, which are also critical components for any GM.

 

[Zarzh]

The trade down wasn't even a bad move. None of the players drafted 11th-26th in that draft look like they're on track to become top half of the lineup players.

The trade was awful and aged like milk. You could throw a dart blindfolded and end up with a prospect projecting to be an extremely useful player.

 

[Hodge]

The trade was awful and aged like milk. You could throw a dart blindfolded and end up with a prospect projecting to be an extremely useful player.

There isn't a single prospect on this list who projects to be an "extremely useful player."

 

[Star Platinum]

I agree with this completely. As bad as Goodrow is he is not doing any harm to the team. He is good on the PK

He's not. People just pretend that he is because that's his rep.

 

[Zarzh]

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There isn't a single prospect on this list who projects to be an "extremely useful player."

Geekie, Mateychuk, Nazar, McGroarty, Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, Bichsel, Miro, Yurov, and maybe Snuggerud and Rinzel are all looking very promising.

 

[Hodge]

Geekie, Mateychuk, Nazar, McGroarty, Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, Bichsel, Miro, Yurov, and maybe Snuggerud and Rinzel are all looking very promising.

Promising to do what? Become bottom six NHL forwards someday? By the way, Bystedt is outscoring some of these guys like McGroarty in the AHL.

The trade "aged like milk"...yet not a single one of the players listed has established himself in the NHL 3 years later.

 

[ThorNton Apologist]

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There isn't a single prospect on this list who projects to be an "extremely useful player."

There are definitely some players in that group who would be more useful than Bystedt. Mateychuk would instantly be our best defenseman prospect

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Geekie, Mateychuk, Nazar, McGroarty, Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, Bichsel, Miro, Yurov, and maybe Snuggerud and Rinzel are all looking very promising.

Nobody who has failed to make the NHL full-time in their D+3 season is looking “very promising.” And everybody on that list has failed to make the NHL full time in their D+3 season.

 

[Hodge]

There are definitely some players in that group who would be more useful than Bystedt. Mateychuk would instantly be our best defenseman prospect

You must be joking. That smurf is nowhere near as good of a prospect as Dickinson.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Nobody who has failed to make the NHL full-time in their D+3 season is looking “very promising.” And everybody on that list has failed to make the NHL full time in their D+3 season.

Geekie, Nazar, and Mateychuk are all very good prospects playing in the NHL right now. Yurov is a great prospect who has been under contract in the KHL. They are all tracking to be extremely useful players. And the elephant in the room is of course Lane Hutson.

Logan Couture didn't make the NHL full time until his D+4 season. Guess he wasn't very promising.

 

[Star Platinum]

Nobody who has failed to make the NHL full-time in their D+3 season is looking “very promising.” And everybody on that list has failed to make the NHL full time in their D+3 season.

Askarov?

 

[TheBeard]

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There isn't a single prospect on this list who projects to be an "extremely useful player."

Bischel has looked fantastic in Dallas.

He's not. People just pretend that he is because that's his rep.

He's fine on the PK. It's a thankless job when that's your main skill.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Geekie, Nazar, and Mateychuk are all very good prospects playing in the NHL right now. Yurov is a great prospect who has been under contract in the KHL. They are all tracking to be extremely useful players. And the elephant in the room is of course Lane Hutson.

Logan Couture didn't make the NHL full time until his D+4 season. Guess he wasn't very promising.

I forgot Geekie. The other guys have been <50% NHL. And Geekie hasn’t really done much in the NHL.

Couture beat the odds, and he also dominated the AHL in that D+3. Are any of these other guys dominating the AHL right now like Couture was? I honestly haven’t looked that close.

Askarov?

Goalies are way different from skaters.

 

[TheBeard]

I agree with this completely. As bad as Goodrow is he is not doing any harm to the team. He is good on the PK and has now for almost a month been exclusively on the 4th line. He is no longer dragging down Smith or Celebrini. They will not need his cap space before his contract is up. He might even have positive value his final year if the cap goes up as much as it is reported to go up.

I think people here are judging his effectiveness based on his cap hit. It's like basing someone's effectiveness on where they were drafted. If BG was making the minimum people would have less issue with his game because he's basically playing at a vet min level. He's not really preventing any of the kids from playing and it's not exactly like the kids were setting the league on fire.

 

[Zarzh]

Nobody who has failed to make the NHL full-time in their D+3 season is looking “very promising.” And everybody on that list has failed to make the NHL full time in their D+3 season.

Someone like Ohgren put up numbers in every league he's played in as a TWF with leadership qualities. He's still extremely useful as a middle six forward, and invaluable as a top 6 forward.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I forgot Geekie. The other guys have been <50% NHL. And Geekie hasn’t really done much in the NHL.

Couture beat the odds, and he also dominated the AHL in that D+3. Are any of these other guys dominating the AHL right now like Couture was? I honestly haven’t looked that close.

Goalies are way different from skaters.

Sure, let's look at 2022 draftees in the AHL:

C Luca Del Bel Belluz (44th overall): 37 points in 34 games
D Denton Mateychuk (12th overall): 25 points in 27 games
C Frank Nazar (13th overall): 24 points in 21 games
W Liam Ohgren (19th overall): 23 points in 25 games
W Jonathan Lekkerimaki (15th overall): 21 points in 23 games

There's quite a few others with marginally better production than Bystedt that I won't bother with, and a bunch who are getting NHL tries (Lamoureux, Bischel, Miroshnichenko, Kulich) and doing a lot with them. Yurov doing great in the KHL, Snuggerud and Rinzel developing well in college.

Bottom line is that there are a lot of guys taken between 11 and 27 that are tracking much better than Bystedt. Especially Nazar and Mateychuk. And given that Lund and Havelid are complete busts, I'm sure you can get my gist.

 

[Hodge]

Sure, let's look at 2022 draftees in the AHL:

C Luca Del Bel Belluz (44th overall): 37 points in 34 games
D Denton Mateychuk (12th overall): 25 points in 27 games
C Frank Nazar (13th overall): 24 points in 21 games
W Liam Ohgren (19th overall): 23 points in 25 games
W Jonathan Lekkerimaki (15th overall): 21 points in 23 games

There's quite a few others with marginally better production than Bystedt that I won't bother with, and a bunch who are getting NHL tries (Lamoureux, Bischel, Miroshnichenko, Kulich) and doing a lot with them. Yurov doing great in the KHL, Snuggerud and Rinzel developing well in college.

Bottom line is that there are a lot of guys taken between 11 and 27 that are tracking much better than Bystedt. Especially Nazar and Mateychuk. And given that Lund and Havelid are complete busts, I'm sure you can get my gist.

Having any of these guys instead of Bystedt, Havelid and Lund would not make a lick of a difference in our rebuild. None of them are on track to becoming impact players which validates the fundamentally sound logic of trading down from 11 to get three cracks at finding a NHLer.

 

[coooldude]

I think the debate here can be summarized by separating out the decision and the outcome.

Decision: We don't know the behind the scenes reality, but it's maybe safe to assume that since Grier took over 3 days before the draft or whatever, he wasn't working on his own list. He was working off the existing scouting staff's work. Maybe the existing scouting staff had a big fat tier from 11-30, or maybe Grier just didn't trust them. Three darts better than one is a logical decision - and depending on the information at hand, might have been a good decision (or a bad one).

The outcome of the decision is separate -- the outcome hasn't been great, or at least is not clearly great since not one of our 3 prospects are obviously better than any one of the picks from 11-27, and you can make the argument that a number of those guys are better than Bystedt.

mediocre/Bad outcome doesn't mean bad decision process.

 

[Lebanezer]

Having any of these guys instead of Bystedt, Havelid and Lund would not make a lick of a difference in our rebuild. None of them are on track to becoming impact players which validates the fundamentally sound logic of trading down from 11 to get three cracks at finding a NHLer.

 

[ThePlanet]

Taking people off of ignore, thinking "Maybe they've grown, and have something positive to offer in this discussion." is akin to drunk texting an ex at 2am.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[OrrNumber4]

People, you are focusing on the wrong misses of the 2022 draft. Missing Hutson was the big one. Can you imagine having him instead of Lund or Havelid? The Sharks's core would be set!

 

[Hodge]

View attachment 967176

You're right, this group of players who have uniformly failed to establish themselves in the NHL 3 years after the draft are clearly destined for great things and would have accelerated our rebuild by several years. It eats away at me imagining where the Sharks would be right now if we had Ivan Miroshnichenko and his 3 career NHL goals. Stanley Cup champs by 2027 for sure, maybe even 2026?

People, you are focusing on the wrong misses of the 2022 draft. Missing Hutson was the big one. Can you imagine having him instead of Lund or Havelid? The Sharks's core would be set!

Set to get destroyed if we ever made the playoffs with a defense built around a pipsqueak who can't defend.

 

[Star Platinum]

It’s a little sad, purely from an entertainment standpoint, that we don’t really have the assets to make an interesting deal this trade deadline. Like I’m sure we’ll trade guys and get a smattering of 2nd-5th round picks, maybe even a prospect or two that, if you squint, may have some potential, but no shock Askarov trade, no last minute Hertl trades.

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, just purely from an entertainment standpoint.

I miss the days when this board just spoke trades into existence

 

[Juxtaposer]

Having any of these guys instead of Bystedt, Havelid and Lund would not make a lick of a difference in our rebuild. None of them are on track to becoming impact players which validates the fundamentally sound logic of trading down from 11 to get three cracks at finding a NHLer.

You're not wrong, I'm just saying that there are good players picked between 11 and 27 that are better than Bystedt and could potentially become difference-makers. Obviously no one is tracking towards stardom.

As I said at the time of the trade down, the move is good if they select the right players and bad if they don't. Right now, it's abundantly clear that they did not. If we had Lamoureux, Casey, and Hutson, then it would have been a win.

Your favorite millennial famously traded down from the Travis Konecny pick multiple times and ended up with nada.