Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[TheBeard]

If Mack hits his ceiling I think he could be Yzerman 2.0

Hopefully he’s not the team’s GM then in 2064

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Hopefully he’s not the team’s GM then in 2064

Trust the Celebrin-scheme

 

[TheBeard]

Trust the Celebrin-scheme

The Celeschemi?

 

[hohosaregood]

I feel like there's a strong possibility where Celebrini wins like 8 Selkes. Maybe like 3 on merit and 5 on reputation when he's older

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1859278895867961485

Ferraro at 13.

No goalie from Sharks.

 

[Hodge]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1859278895867961485

Ferraro at 13.

No goalie from Sharks.

Vatrano would be an interesting guy to replace Goodrow on the Celebrini line/top PP unit, then potentially flip for a profit at the deadline.

 

[Jargon]

What does he do that is generational?

I was not as high on Celebrini as others were before the draft, and I will say that after watching him play he has absolutely erased my concerns about what sort of prospect he is, and I now firmly believe he will be a stud, but I still fail to see why you think him being almost but not quite generational is bogus.

He has a very well rounded game, and thus seems like as he grows he will be a dominant player, but I still do not see that raw unteachable skill that separates the Celebrini type studs from the McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin generational type players.

I think he will be more in the range of a Barkov level player than a Mcdavid, Crosby type player, where he is absolutely one of the top end centers in the league, and you can absolutely win a cup with him if he is your number 1, but I don't think he'll be consistently in the running for points leader, or goal leader, etc.

Now maybe you define generational a little differently or something, and if so maybe you include more players in your group of generational type players, at which point Celebrini might be in that group, but if we are going with the idea that generational players are the guys that do stuff like potentially break Gretzkys goal record, or push over the 1500 pt threshold while also winning cups and several yearly awards, I dunno I just don't think Celebrini winds up in that sort of company.

it’s an interesting debate (sorry @coooldude!) and yeah, ultimately depends on what you define as generational. I DO think Thornton was generational, he had some insane numbers (7th in all time assists, to me, is generational).

I think that Celebrini’s talent is that he’s close to elite in almost every category and I think he has the potential to be generational in how he affects the entire game, on both ends of the ice.

Of course, I’m extrapolating from a handful of games, but what I see from him as an 18 year old makes me think he has the potential to be a (don’t burn me alive) better Mackinnon. Can he reach Crosby levels? I don’t know. @Hodge’s Yzerman comp is interesting. I just think he’s such a complete player at barely 18 that if he keeps on this trajectory he’s going to dominate the league in a few seasons. Between his elite skills, his nonstop drive, his extremely responsible defensive play and the fact that his dad is going to make sure his body is in absolute peak condition, I really think he has the chance to yeah, be a top 5-10 player during his career. Sky is the limit.

Now, obviously, I could be totally wrong and he never hits that, who knows, I’ve just been very, very impressed.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

If Mack hits his ceiling I think he could be Yzerman 2.0

Yzerman was a compiler, choker and didnt care about defense till he was forced to, which was when they stopped losing to the Sharks in the playoffs and started going to cup finals.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Vatrano would be an interesting guy to replace Goodrow on the Celebrini line/top PP unit, then potentially flip for a profit at the deadline.

If Anaheim was willing to give him to us for super cheap given his current struggles but I don't see why they'd do that.

 

[Dicdonya]

What does Crosby do that is generational?

(The answer is more or less all of the things that twitter thread says Celebrini is already among the league leaders in per-game statistics.)

It's early, but I think it is fair to say he is trending toward best player to enter the league since McDavid, other than Makar (still drafted 7 years ago), but I think it is fair to separate forwards and defensemen for this.

Seriously? His shot, passing, skating, puck possession, hockey intelligence to name a few.

He had 106 points in his rookie year, in a time where scoring 100 was far more impressive than it is now, and has numerous personal end of season awards, 3 cups and is top 10 all time in scoring.

Also not to be an ass, but saying Celebrini is trending anywhere after 8 games is silly, and especially saying he is trending towards the best player in the league since McDavid is just plain homerism.

Celebrini is not even point per game in a league where the top scorer right now is on an almost 2 pt per game pace. Celebrini has a shit ton more to prove before we start entertaining the idea he is trending towards the best player in the league since McDavid.

I think we'll see it in 2-3 years if he manages to grow into a generational talent. I think he is a Franchise level talent already. But I agree that Crosby, Ovi and McDavid for example as generational talents were immediately scoring crazy numbers as rookies. That's not quite Celebrini yet, but he could catch up quite close.

Yes I would agree with a "franchise" tag for Celebrini for sure.

I think the never-ending HFB "generational" debate is tiresome, but if we have to talk about it here too, I fall on your side of it.

Celebrini has every chance to be a MacKinnon-type difference maker, or match a Crosby-type season, or make an impact like a Barkov. I personally like the MacKinnon comp the best, stylistically, size wise, etc.

To be a Crosby, McDavid level generational player, you have to project someone to be one of the best 5-10 hockey players of all time. Why do we even need to worry whether Celebrini is there? Jumbo wasn't generational and isn't top 5-10 all time, but his number is going into the rafters on Saturday.

Crosby had 102 points in his rookie season and 120 points the following year. Celebrini just isn't that good. But that's OK. Crosby was "The Kid" and lived up to the hype with 3 cups and all the other awards you'd ever want. If Celebrini wins one cup with the Sharks, it'll make my (and my dad's) fandom for life. No shade to say he's nowhere near Crosby's generational talent.

Totally agree, I think the most important thing about Celebrini, whether we want to label him generational or not, is that he does seem like he will be someone that can be the cornerstone of a cup winning team. At the end of the day that's all I really hope for with him, if he goes above and beyond that and becomes on the of the best players of all time, well hell yeah great.

it’s an interesting debate (sorry @coooldude!) and yeah, ultimately depends on what you define as generational. I DO think Thornton was generational, he had some insane numbers (7th in all time assists, to me, is generational).

I think that Celebrini’s talent is that he’s close to elite in almost every category and I think he has the potential to be generational in how he affects the entire game, on both ends of the ice.

Of course, I’m extrapolating from a handful of games, but what I see from him as an 18 year old makes me think he has the potential to be a (don’t burn me alive) better Mackinnon. Can he reach Crosby levels? I don’t know. @Hodge’s Yzerman comp is interesting. I just think he’s such a complete player at barely 18 that if he keeps on this trajectory he’s going to dominate the league in a few seasons. Between his elite skills, his nonstop drive, his extremely responsible defensive play and the fact that his dad is going to make sure his body is in absolute peak condition, I really think he has the chance to yeah, be a top 5-10 player during his career. Sky is the limit.

Now, obviously, I could be totally wrong and he never hits that, who knows, I’ve just been very, very impressed.

That's fine, I was not so much responding to your post because you think he could be generational, I think its possible, but I was more caught up on the fact you would consider a statement like "close but not quite generational" as a bogus potential outcome.

To me that implies you think the mere thought he might just be elite, top 10 in the league sort of good, is bogus, which is why I asked you what is generational about him.

I think him just being equal to Mackinnon would be insanely awesome, let alone being a better version of him. Seriously though, what skill do you think Celebrini has shown that has any chance of surpassing someone like Mack? I do not think any physical ability Celebrini has displayed is likely to progress further than what Mack can do, and Mack is well known for having the same sort of competitive drive, and focus on his health, that Celebrini does, so I do not even think one could argue Mack's personality is holding him back from even greater heights that Celebrini could take advantage of.

I honestly think Mack is the ceiling for Celebrini, as close to generational as you can get without being considered generational. I will be stoked if Celebrini breaks through that ceiling.

 

[one2gamble]

why do we care about this

 

[Jargon]

why do we care about this

why do we care about anything

 

[one2gamble]

why do we care about anything

"You know, nothing's really gonna matter. we're all gonna die" - Abraham Lincoln

 

[weastern bias]

I hate the "generational" tag because it inherently pits players against their contemporaries and forces a comparison of their impact against their peers, which I don't find compelling in the context of discussing team-building, it's better suited to NBA fandom style player-vs-player GOAT debate arguments, which has limited value in a sport as team-oriented as hockey anyway

What I do believe is that Celebrini is a legitimately transformative talent, a player who's very presence will elevate the level of his team's play to such a degree that it pushes the team to a higher strata in the league than they would attain without him

We haven't had one of those players since Jumbo's prime, Celebrini is very special

 

[hockfan1991]

None of this matters at the moment. Lets enjoy the ride.

" What is meant will be" said the coconut tree

 

[OrrNumber4]

I hate the "generational" tag because it inherently pits players against their contemporaries and forces a comparison of their impact against their peers, which I don't find compelling in the context of discussing team-building, it's better suited to NBA fandom style player-vs-player GOAT debate arguments, which has limited value in a sport as team-oriented as hockey anyway

What I do believe is that Celebrini is a legitimately transformative talent, a player who's very presence will elevate the level of his team's play to such a degree that it pushes the team to a higher strata in the league than they would attain without him

We haven't had one of those players since Jumbo's prime, Celebrini is very special

We can end the discussion here; extremely well-said.

 

[TheBeard]

Seriously? His shot, passing, skating, puck possession, hockey intelligence to name a few.

He had 106 points in his rookie year, in a time where scoring 100 was far more impressive than it is now, and has numerous personal end of season awards, 3 cups and is top 10 all time in scoring.

Also not to be an ass, but saying Celebrini is trending anywhere after 8 games is silly, and especially saying he is trending towards the best player in the league since McDavid is just plain homerism.

Celebrini is not even point per game in a league where the top scorer right now is on an almost 2 pt per game pace. Celebrini has a shit ton more to prove before we start entertaining the idea he is trending towards the best player in the league since McDavid.



Yes I would agree with a "franchise" tag for Celebrini for sure.



Totally agree, I think the most important thing about Celebrini, whether we want to label him generational or not, is that he does seem like he will be someone that can be the cornerstone of a cup winning team. At the end of the day that's all I really hope for with him, if he goes above and beyond that and becomes on the of the best players of all time, well hell yeah great.



That's fine, I was not so much responding to your post because you think he could be generational, I think its possible, but I was more caught up on the fact you would consider a statement like "close but not quite generational" as a bogus potential outcome.

To me that implies you think the mere thought he might just be elite, top 10 in the league sort of good, is bogus, which is why I asked you what is generational about him.

I think him just being equal to Mackinnon would be insanely awesome, let alone being a better version of him. Seriously though, what skill do you think Celebrini has shown that has any chance of surpassing someone like Mack? I do not think any physical ability Celebrini has displayed is likely to progress further than what Mack can do, and Mack is well known for having the same sort of competitive drive, and focus on his health, that Celebrini does, so I do not even think one could argue Mack's personality is holding him back from even greater heights that Celebrini could take advantage of.

I honestly think Mack is the ceiling for Celebrini, as close to generational as you can get without being considered generational. I will be stoked if Celebrini breaks through that ceiling.

I think MacKinnon is such an underrated player. He's playing at a time when Leon and Connor are doing their thing and when he came in Ovi and Sidney were doing theirs. I just don't feel he gets the respect he deserves for how good he truly is. Considering his first 3 or 4 seasons he was under a ppg player, the fact he's averaged 94 points per 82 is wild. Hell, since 17-18 he's averaging 114 points a season.

 

[ThePlanet]

With regards to Celebrini, I see the makings of a player who will impact the game in a similar way to Patrice Bergeron, while also possibly putting up higher points totals.

 

[Timo Time]

The biggest thing that stands out defensively about Mack to me, is that he's always supporting the puck low.

I see him so often engaging board battles below the net when other forwards tend to drift or our D-Men are lost. I know that may fall into the responsibility of the Center but as a rookie, to see him actively exerting himself defensively is pretty f***ing incredible.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

So far, Havelid and Landen are trending to bust. Wallenius was a late 2nd; on average that translates into not-an-NHLer.

At this point, I feel reasonably confident that three years from now:
Celebrini + Eklund will be first-liners
Smith will center a second-line
Dickinson/Mukhamadullin can at least be top-4 defensemen

In addition, I'd be safe assuming that the Sharks get another top-6 forward and top-4 defenseman from the rest of their field.

That still leaves a lot of holes; two top-6 forwards and another top-4 defensemen...and note that there's no defenseman I'd be comfortable penciling in on a top-pairing.

You said nothing about Halttunen,Musty,Chernyshov,Bystedt,Lund and Bordeleau still has a shot at being a decent player too! Of those 6 players a couple will be good maybe even great given the right linemates and 2 or 3 maybe decent and play Middle six...and you missed Zetterburg who's been pretty good thus far and is trending upwards...and what of Pohlkamp and Graf and the Sharks will get another top 5-7 pick so should get a decent forward there or D-man...And lastly have you seen Wallenius,Havelid and Landen play?

 

[Chinaski89]

Smith is right with fantilli and Carlsson in points in his rookie season vs there 2nd seasons. All 3 are on terrible teams. All 3 are terrible at faceoffs.

I just do not see the clear advantage that those 2 have over Smith, other then coaching giving the other 2 top opportunities right from the get go.

In my opinion there’s a clear advantage to Leo. Fantilli I haven’t caught as much. Carlsson dictates play on his own. I’ve yet to see smith be the driver of any of his lines. Carlsson plays like a fifth year veteran and has the strength and will only get stronger. Smith plays soft and like Bambi on his skates. He’ll be a good first line winger I’d guess and certainly a top of the league second line winger, but nothing he’s presenting is giving me any faith he’ll be a good center in this league. I get he’s 19 and less than 20 games in, but he doesn’t standout in anyway with his skills.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

If Mack hits his ceiling I think he could be Yzerman 2.0

I'm thinking more Patrick Marleau which should get people in San Jose excited

 

[coooldude]

I'm thinking more Patrick Marleau which should get people in San Jose excited

I'll honestly be disappointed if Mack has Patty's career. I know that may piss some people off, but when you look at Patty without teal-colored glasses, you see a player who, when compared with other franchise drivers, didn't have any spikes other than longevity. He was a solid 2-way player, but never enough to win the Selke. He was a gentleman, but never enough to win the Lady Byng. He never had scoring spikes. He was incredibly consistent and he holds the record for all-time games played. Those are great traits and his number is deservedly in the rafters. But we already had one of Patty.

I would much rather see Celebrini shine brighter for shorter. And I think Celly is more explosive and dangerous on offense, even if not quite as smooth or as fast a skater, or as strong, and certainly hasn't proven as defensively effective, as Patty was.

 

[coooldude]

it’s an interesting debate (sorry @coooldude!) and yeah, ultimately depends on what you define as generational. I DO think Thornton was generational, he had some insane numbers (7th in all time assists, to me, is generational).

Yeah, it gets into definition. To me, a generational talent is one that defines their generation... which you could summarize as decade, ish.

80's -- Gretzky
90's -- Lemieux, Jagr (and some think no on Jagr).
00's -- Crosby, Ovie
10's -- McDavid
20's -- we don't know yet

You could separate out F, D, G, but ultimately I define generational as this. You get one name per decade, maybe two. And others define it differently and around and around we go

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

With regards to Celebrini, I see the makings of a player who will impact the game in a similar way to Patrice Bergeron, while also possibly putting up higher points totals.

So, Barkov