Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[tiburon12]

We can't afford to lose Zetterlund's speed. He's one of the fastest players in the league and it's hard to find a replacement who's capable of playing middle six minutes. None of our forward prospects outside of Celebrini are burners either and even he isn't exactly McDavid.

He's also a tank and has a motor. Freak athlete stuff. Keep those guys

 

[STL Shark]

He's also a tank and has a motor. Freak athlete stuff. Keep those guys

Only if you're paying him at the level he's going to be during that contract rather than paying for performance that he had during a time where he was playing way more minutes and compiling more counting stats than he will ever again.

We'd be able to get a 1st and 2nd for him this deadline with how cheap his contract is (or a top tier prospect and a pick). It's just a matter of what his contract ask winds up being to determine if that return is worth more than Zetterlund himself on the eventual 3rd line when we're ready to compete.

If it is 3-4 years and at $4M AAV or lower, then bring him back. Beyond that and I'm willing to listen to offers from playoff teams that give away 1st round picks like candy at the deadline. Can always trade that same pick for an equal or better player a few months later at the draft where teams do a complete 180 and value 1st round picks like gold.

 

[coooldude]

Only if you're paying him at the level he's going to be during that contract rather than paying for performance that he had during a time where he was playing way more minutes and compiling more counting stats than he will ever again.

We'd be able to get a 1st and 2nd for him this deadline with how cheap his contract is (or a top tier prospect and a pick). It's just a matter of what his contract ask winds up being to determine if that return is worth more than Zetterlund himself on the eventual 3rd line when we're ready to compete.

If it is 3-4 years and at $4M AAV or lower, then bring him back. Beyond that and I'm willing to listen to offers from playoff teams that give away 1st round picks like candy at the deadline. Can always trade that same pick for an equal or better player a few months later at the draft where teams do a complete 180 and value 1st round picks like gold.

I'm not sure we want to keep kicking the can by moving young prospects for more picks in the future. Zetterlund can be an effective middle 6 forward for us, I'm not sure we want to move him for a first round pick that might only turn into zetterlund but 5 years from now. He's probably going to get re-signed is my guess.

We can't afford to lose Zetterlund's speed. He's one of the fastest players in the league and it's hard to find a replacement who's capable of playing middle six minutes. None of our forward prospects outside of Celebrini are burners either and even he isn't exactly McDavid.

I was curious about this from a data POV so I looked it up on NHL Edge. He is indeed quite fast and data shows he plays with a high motor.

1. Zetterlund's top speed was 23.19, 90th %ile for the league.
2. And he had 138 bursts over 20mph, good for 83rd %ile.
3. 243.65 miles skated was also 86%ile.
4. 204 SOGs is 87%ile and 21 goals, I was surprised to learn, is 83%ile.

 

[Hodge]

We'd be able to get a 1st and 2nd for him this deadline with how cheap his contract is (or a top tier prospect and a pick). It's just a matter of what his contract ask winds up being to determine if that return is worth more than Zetterlund himself on the eventual 3rd line when we're ready to compete.

No we won't. The cap hit is less of an advantage since his contract is expiring. Maybe we could have gotten that by trading him this past deadline but why would we trade Zetterlund for a late 1st and 2nd to begin with? Our odds of drafting another Zetterlund with either pick are less than 50/50.

We can afford to "overpay" Zetterlund at around 5 million per year on a 4-5 year deal as long as there is no trade protection or limited trade protection on the contract. Might actually make sense to use our short term cap space to pay extra on the AAV to kill trade protections.

 

[gaucholoco3]

No we won't. The cap hit is less of an advantage since his contract is expiring. Maybe we could have gotten that by trading him this past deadline but why would we trade Zetterlund for a late 1st and 2nd to begin with? Our odds of drafting another Zetterlund with either pick are less than 50/50.

We can afford to "overpay" Zetterlund at around 5 million per year on a 4-5 year deal as long as there is no trade protection or limited trade protection on the contract. Might actually make sense to use our short term cap space to pay extra on the AAV to kill trade protections.

I’m not opposed to locking him up long term especially if he clicks with Smith or Celebrini this season. I just feel that players like Zetterlund who can be available in free agency are players you need to listen on offers for. Yes that late 1st ideally turns into Zetterlund but is it better to have that late first and a middle six wing that is picked up July 1st.

 

[Hodge]

I’m not opposed to locking him up long term especially if he clicks with Smith or Celebrini this season. I just feel that players like Zetterlund who can be available in free agency are players you need to listen on offers for. Yes that late 1st ideally turns into Zetterlund but is it better to have that late first and a middle six wing that is picked up July 1st.

The problem with that is if you're replacing Zetterlund via free agency you're probably replacing him with a player who is at least 3-4 years older and on a less efficient contract. Would rather just keep Zetterlund through his prime on a contract that can be traded if necessary.

 

[STL Shark]

No we won't. The cap hit is less of an advantage since his contract is expiring. Maybe we could have gotten that by trading him this past deadline but why would we trade Zetterlund for a late 1st and 2nd to begin with? Our odds of drafting another Zetterlund with either pick are less than 50/50.

We can afford to "overpay" Zetterlund at around 5 million per year on a 4-5 year deal as long as there is no trade protection or limited trade protection on the contract. Might actually make sense to use our short term cap space to pay extra on the AAV to kill trade protections.

Tanner Jeannot was on an expiring deal and got almost got an entire draft's worth of picks from Tampa Bay at the deadline. I like Zetterlund and think he is a good player (as opposed to some who were saying to not even qualify him last summer) and I am not just looking to jettison him for the sake of doing so, but teams vastly undervalue 1st rounders at deadlines when giving them away and then overrate them come draft week when they don't have them anymore. Can get a good player for a pick around the 20-25 range come draft week and use the cap space that way as opposed to overpaying an internal option by 20-25% on AAV and term.

All options should be on the table for a middle 6 RW that is going to be 26 at the beginning of his next deal is the main point. It's not a must keep situation.

 

[gaucholoco3]

The problem with that is if you're replacing Zetterlund via free agency you're probably replacing him with a player who is at least 3-4 years older and on a less efficient contract. Would rather just keep Zetterlund through his prime on a contract that can be traded if necessary.

I was speaking more generally that specificity Zetterlund. I think it makes the most sense to extend Zetterlund but his archetype as a middle six wing is easy to obtain and should be shopped if teams are willing to pay a premium for them at the deadline.

 

[Hodge]

Tanner Jeannot was on an expiring deal and got almost got an entire draft's worth of picks from Tampa Bay at the deadline. I like Zetterlund and think he is a good player (as opposed to some who were saying to not even qualify him last summer) and I am not just looking to jettison him for the sake of doing so, but teams vastly undervalue 1st rounders at deadlines when giving them away and then overrate them come draft week when they don't have them anymore. Can get a good player for a pick around the 20-25 range come draft week and use the cap space that way as opposed to overpaying an internal option by 20-25% on AAV and term.

All options should be on the table for a middle 6 RW that is going to be 26 at the beginning of his next deal is the main point. It's not a must keep situation.

Vegas has shown the opposite is true. It's more profitable to buy at the deadline (assuming players on expiring deals will sign extensions with you) then sell during the offseason when more teams are active in the market.

If we can include Zetterlund in a package for a top pairing defenseman I'm all for it. Not sure what the benefit of trading him for a late 1st rounder would be.

 

[coooldude]

Tanner Jeannot was on an expiring deal and got almost got an entire draft's worth of picks from Tampa Bay at the deadline. I like Zetterlund and think he is a good player (as opposed to some who were saying to not even qualify him last summer) and I am not just looking to jettison him for the sake of doing so, but teams vastly undervalue 1st rounders at deadlines when giving them away and then overrate them come draft week when they don't have them anymore. Can get a good player for a pick around the 20-25 range come draft week and use the cap space that way as opposed to overpaying an internal option by 20-25% on AAV and term.

All options should be on the table for a middle 6 RW that is going to be 26 at the beginning of his next deal is the main point. It's not a must keep situation.

Jeannot is a massive outlier, I don't think we can realistically use him as a comp.

That said, I agree with your POV that all options should be on the table. Absolutely they should. I just happen to guess that at the TDL, or the draft, he's worth more signed to his next deal than he is as a trade chip, or that if he is moved, I'd prefer a roster player who we think is a better fit for a "core" or core-adjacent, rather than another draft pick.

 

[mogambomoroo]

In the latest podcast episode of Sharks Hockey Digest there was a William Eklund offseason check in. It was recorded couple of days before the draft, so Celebrini wasn't officially drafted yet.
But Eklund has never sounded so excited and happy to be coming back to next season. He sounds so ready to take over with the new crop of prospects coming up, that I got the hype going already!
Wake me up when hockey starts

 

[Hodge]

Frank Vatrano would be an awesome UFA signing next summer. I remember reading that Grier tried to get him in 2022 but was outbid by Anaheim. I think he'd be a perfect veteran linemate for Smith the way Toffoli should be for Celebrini until some of the forward prospects take over those roles.

 

[STL Shark]

Frank Vatrano would be an awesome UFA signing next summer. I remember reading that Grier tried to get him in 2022 but was outbid by Anaheim. I think he'd be a perfect veteran linemate for Smith the way Toffoli should be for Celebrini until some of the forward prospects take over those roles.

Was with Grier in NYR in 2021-22, so makes sense that he'd be after him after joining the Sharks. That said, would imagine he's a guy that is chasing a chance to win and play in the playoffs at this juncture of his career. And if he's not trying to go to a contending team that will surely want him, he's probably going to be asking for a lot of term (5-6 years) on his last big deal coming off a few career years.

Think he'd be a good fit on the ice, just don't see it happening based on the factors noted above. A player in a similar profile that I'd be eager to target would be Trent Frederic. Think without DeBrusk this year on the LW that he is poised to take a big jump offensively from the 40 points he had this past season. Has the size and skill to be a very effective LW with how Grier wants the team to look.

 

[timorous me]

Was with Grier in NYR in 2021-22, so makes sense that he'd be after him after joining the Sharks. That said, would imagine he's a guy that is chasing a chance to win and play in the playoffs at this juncture of his career. And if he's not trying to go to a contending team that will surely want him, he's probably going to be asking for a lot of term (5-6 years) on his last big deal coming off a few career years.

Think he'd be a good fit on the ice, just don't see it happening based on the factors noted above. A player in a similar profile that I'd be eager to target would be Trent Frederic. Think without DeBrusk this year on the LW that he is poised to take a big jump offensively from the 40 points he had this past season. Has the size and skill to be a very effective LW with how Grier wants the team to look.

I liked Vatrano a lot in his cameo with the Rangers. Of course I try to avoid watching the Ducks unless it's against our boys, but I didn't realize he potted 37 goals last season. That's impressive, but I agree with the sentiment here in terms of fit.

Frederic, if he can find another level offensively, would be such a good fit for the Sharks with his profile--the whole package, including his age. But if he does reach that next level, hoo boy will he have some suitors on the market.

 

[Mattb124]

Jeannot is a massive outlier, I don't think we can realistically use him as a comp.

That trade was so bad that it will be a cautionary tale that may actually cause GM’s to avoid similar deals in the future - let alone use it as a comp.

 

[themelkman]

Zero reason to trade Zetterlund. We are already lacking quality wingers for Smith and Mack Daddy

 

[Hodge]

Was with Grier in NYR in 2021-22, so makes sense that he'd be after him after joining the Sharks. That said, would imagine he's a guy that is chasing a chance to win and play in the playoffs at this juncture of his career. And if he's not trying to go to a contending team that will surely want him, he's probably going to be asking for a lot of term (5-6 years) on his last big deal coming off a few career years.

Think he'd be a good fit on the ice, just don't see it happening based on the factors noted above. A player in a similar profile that I'd be eager to target would be Trent Frederic. Think without DeBrusk this year on the LW that he is poised to take a big jump offensively from the 40 points he had this past season. Has the size and skill to be a very effective LW with how Grier wants the team to look.

I was thinking something similar to the Toffoli contract, maybe a lower AAV since Vatrano has a bit less of a track record. Hopefully we have a competitive season with enough flashes of brilliance from the kids to convince free agents there is potential to win here in the near future.

 

[tiburon12]

I liked Vatrano a lot in his cameo with the Rangers. Of course I try to avoid watching the Ducks unless it's against our boys, but I didn't realize he potted 37 goals last season. That's impressive, but I agree with the sentiment here in terms of fit.

Frederic, if he can find another level offensively, would be such a good fit for the Sharks with his profile--the whole package, including his age. But if he does reach that next level, hoo boy will he have some suitors on the market.

What does it say about Anaheim that their stable of young (potential) stars - many of whom aren't that young anymore - got outscored by Vatrano?

I'm just so vexed by that team. Do they ever intend on getting better?

 

[timorous me]

What does it say about Anaheim that their stable of young (potential) stars - many of whom aren't that young anymore - got outscored by Vatrano?

I'm just so vexed by that team. Do they ever intend on getting better?

On a somewhat related note, I don't really do sports gambling, but I was at a casino tonight with a sports book, so I had to check the Sharks' Stanley Cup odds for next season, and I was pleased to see that they weren't the lowest. Anaheim was worse!

 

[tiburon12]

On a somewhat related note, I don't really do sports gambling, but I was at a casino tonight with a sports book, so I had to check the Sharks' Stanley Cup odds for next season, and I was pleased to see that they weren't the lowest. Anaheim was worse!

That's so pathetic for Anaheim. They are nearing Coyotes levels of suck and incompetence.

 

[Bizz]

That's so pathetic for Anaheim. They are nearing Coyotes levels of suck and incompetence.

That's what happens when you rig the Draft lottery and Chicago ends up with Bedard instead of Anaheim.

 

[STL Shark]

That's what happens when you rig the Draft lottery and Chicago ends up with Bedard instead of Anaheim.

The way Verbeek goes off the board on draft night, he'd have still taken Carlsson 1st overall anyway haha.

 

[landshark]

That's so pathetic for Anaheim. They are nearing Coyotes levels of suck and incompetence.

So...Ducks to PHX?

 

[Erep]

That's so pathetic for Anaheim. They are nearing Coyotes levels of suck and incompetence.

The Coyotes were bad on purpose, trading off players rather than paying them; A's style.

Anaheim is at risk of Buffalo levels.

I think it is worth noting the Ducks had a really strong start to the season last year, the same way the Sabers used to do annually...
Might be something to that whole, young guys starting high energy early in the season, then burning out on conditioning and lack of leadership structure when they go on a small losing streak and implode.

 

[Hodge]

Cool interview with Mario. He seems to have a positive attitude about everything so this isn't exactly surprising but still interesting to hear that he enjoys being part of trade rumors because it proves other teams want him (he did also say he wants to be a Shark for life and win in SJ).