Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Juxtaposer]

I’d say 6’1 200+ is more than average sized on his end. I think he’s a Dustin Brown tier player overall. 2/3 guy with loads of leadership traits. He’d expand the young core and probably be better than what we get with the pick received in return for Ferraro (and the 2nds).

He’s also already 20 and therefore not a slide candidate. Whether he’s in the NHL or AHL, he’s burning a year. So no need to guarantee anything except a contract.

It’s not about sliding, it’s about NHL time + NHL salary. McGroarty doesn’t want to ride the bus in the AHL.

(6’1” is an average sized NHL player.)

 

[themelkman]

It seems like McGroarty’s issue with Winnipeg is that he’s mad the Jets wouldn’t let him burn a year of his ELC in the spring, same exact scenario as Cutter Gauthier. Which means that the guy will only sign with a team that guarantees him an NHL spot next season. Do we really want three average sized 18, 19, and 20 year olds in our lineup? I don’t think McGroarty makes much sense for us, never mind that I think he’s an overrated player.

Exactly my thoughts. He is the wrong fit for us right now when we have plenty of young guys who need their own ice time. We need a 23-26 year old established but underrated scoring winger to join this team.

And it pains me to say that when I love the idea of stealing good prospects from teams

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Exactly my thoughts. He is the wrong fit for us right now when we have plenty of young guys who need their own ice time. We need a 23-26 year old established but underrated scoring winger to join this team.

And it pains me to say that when I love the idea of stealing good prospects from teams

Why is the time horizon of when McGroarty limited to right now, and why does a deal for McG necessarily preclude adding a 23-28 year old winger? Why not both?

The impression that I’ve gotten from reading around is that McGroarty’s stance isn’t that he’s unwilling to do time in the AHL, just that he wants to start his pro contract and have a legit shot of earning NHL ice time.

When did the roster get turned over to the point where we have 6 top 9 wingers unquestionably locked in? As it stands now I just see Eklund and Zetterlund as the only two that have a top-9 winger spot locked in. Otherwise, I think Delandrea, Bordeleau, Guschin, Afanasyev, Kunin and Kostin are all going to compete to land one of the top-9 winger spots. Perhaps one or both of Couture (if he’s healthy) or Smith grab winger spots if the coaching staff find it optimal to use them at the wing over center considering where both Coutue and are in their respective careers. Putting aside Smith and Couture, if McGroarty doesn’t think he can beat out enough of those forwards to earn a roster spot, then yeah move along. I suspect when compared to other forward corps in the league it’s a situation McG will find compelling.

If we are to assume Ferraro is the main piece going the other way for McGroarty, is a different trade involving Ferraro likely to yield a pick/player with either a higher ceiling OR is closer to contributing on NHL ice? My guess would be no; though I could see Ferraro yielding a pick that is bundled with others to move up in the draft to get a higher ceiling prospect than McGroarty.

If McG is truly open to spending at least some development time in the AHL; I gotta think the fact the Cuda and Sharks are both in San Jose is plus for the Sharks over most franchises.

IMO, McGroarty seems like exactly the type of prospect profile Grier would be interested in: the size, skill, and will to be hard to play against with a solid track record of being that type of player at every stop in his amateur career. To expand my opinion, from McG’s perspective the Sharks look like an attractive option for similar reasons why I think Graf chose San Jose, there’s simply few teams that have a less entrenched top-9 forward group at the NHL level. If I’m Grier I’m telling McG “hey come sign your ELC, join us for dev and training cap. Our top 9 forward group has yet to be determined with at minimum 4 top-9 winger spots still being up for grabs. We like your profile and play style and we expect you’ll be in a great spot to leapfrog one of other wingers. In the off chance you need some time in the AHL, the Cuda play out of San Jose too so you can safely get settled here without worrying about being bounced across country, all the while myself, the Sharks coaching staff, and the rest of our development staff will be in the building getting first-hand views of your performance.” /slaps a Sharks logo “so Rutger, can we sign this paperwork or what?”

 

[STL Shark]

Why is the time horizon of when McGroarty limited to right now, and why does a deal for McG necessarily preclude adding a 23-28 year old winger? Why not both?

The impression that I’ve gotten from reading around is that McGroarty’s stance isn’t that he’s unwilling to do time in the AHL, just that he wants to start his pro contract and have a legit shot of earning NHL ice time.

When did the roster get turned over to the point where we have 6 top 9 wingers unquestionably locked in? As it stands now I just see Eklund and Zetterlund as the only two that have a top-9 winger spot locked in. Otherwise, I think Delandrea, Bordeleau, Guschin, Afanasyev, Kunin and Kostin are all going to compete to land one of the top-9 winger spots. Perhaps one or both of Couture (if he’s healthy) or Smith grab winger spots if the coaching staff find it optimal to use them at the wing over center considering where both Coutue and are in their respective careers. Putting aside Smith and Couture, if McGroarty doesn’t think he can beat out enough of those forwards to earn a roster spot, then yeah move along. I suspect when compared to other forward corps in the league it’s a situation McG will find compelling.

If we are to assume Ferraro is the main piece going the other way for McGroarty, is a different trade involving Ferraro likely to yield a pick/player with either a higher ceiling OR is closer to contributing on NHL ice? My guess would be no; though I could see Ferraro yielding a pick that is bundled with others to move up in the draft to get a higher ceiling prospect than McGroarty.

If McG is truly open to spending at least some development time in the AHL; I gotta think the fact the Cuda and Sharks are both in San Jose is plus for the Sharks over most franchises.

IMO, McGroarty seems like exactly the type of prospect profile Grier would be interested in: the size, skill, and will to be hard to play against with a solid track record of being that type of player at every stop in his amateur career. To expand my opinion, from McG’s perspective the Sharks look like an attractive option for similar reasons why I think Graf chose San Jose, there’s simply few teams that have a less entrenched top-9 forward group at the NHL level. If I’m Grier I’m telling McG “hey come sign your ELC, join us for dev and training cap. Our top 9 forward group has yet to be determined with at minimum 4 top-9 winger spots still being up for grabs. We like your profile and play style and we expect you’ll be in a great spot to leapfrog one of other wingers. In the off chance you need some time in the AHL, the Cuda play out of San Jose too so you can safely get settled here without worrying about being bounced across country, all the while myself, the Sharks coaching staff, and the rest of our development staff will be in the building getting first-hand views of your performance.” /slaps a Sharks logo “so Rutger, can we sign this paperwork or what?”

I would love to move Ferraro in a deal for a young D-Man, but a team isn't going to move a meaningful young D for him (otherwise they'd simply just promote within). So with that, I am looking at the best prospect(s) that could be gained in a deal for him this week and McGroarty is probably that guy.

Is it a guy that I'd trade something that I don't want to give up (like Eklund or 14th overall)? Not at all. But I view it as this is the best time to trade Ferraro, and I'd prefer a prospect that fits the new core age window and has leadership and production over just getting a pick in the 20's.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Why is the time horizon of when McGroarty limited to right now, and why does a deal for McG necessarily preclude adding a 23-28 year old winger? Why not both?

The impression that I’ve gotten from reading around is that McGroarty’s stance isn’t that he’s unwilling to do time in the AHL, just that he wants to start his pro contract and have a legit shot of earning NHL ice time.

When did the roster get turned over to the point where we have 6 top 9 wingers unquestionably locked in? As it stands now I just see Eklund and Zetterlund as the only two that have a top-9 winger spot locked in. Otherwise, I think Delandrea, Bordeleau, Guschin, Afanasyev, Kunin and Kostin are all going to compete to land one of the top-9 winger spots. Perhaps one or both of Couture (if he’s healthy) or Smith grab winger spots if the coaching staff find it optimal to use them at the wing over center considering where both Coutue and are in their respective careers. Putting aside Smith and Couture, if McGroarty doesn’t think he can beat out enough of those forwards to earn a roster spot, then yeah move along. I suspect when compared to other forward corps in the league it’s a situation McG will find compelling.

If we are to assume Ferraro is the main piece going the other way for McGroarty, is a different trade involving Ferraro likely to yield a pick/player with either a higher ceiling OR is closer to contributing on NHL ice? My guess would be no; though I could see Ferraro yielding a pick that is bundled with others to move up in the draft to get a higher ceiling prospect than McGroarty.

If McG is truly open to spending at least some development time in the AHL; I gotta think the fact the Cuda and Sharks are both in San Jose is plus for the Sharks over most franchises.

IMO, McGroarty seems like exactly the type of prospect profile Grier would be interested in: the size, skill, and will to be hard to play against with a solid track record of being that type of player at every stop in his amateur career. To expand my opinion, from McG’s perspective the Sharks look like an attractive option for similar reasons why I think Graf chose San Jose, there’s simply few teams that have a less entrenched top-9 forward group at the NHL level. If I’m Grier I’m telling McG “hey come sign your ELC, join us for dev and training cap. Our top 9 forward group has yet to be determined with at minimum 4 top-9 winger spots still being up for grabs. We like your profile and play style and we expect you’ll be in a great spot to leapfrog one of other wingers. In the off chance you need some time in the AHL, the Cuda play out of San Jose too so you can safely get settled here without worrying about being bounced across country, all the while myself, the Sharks coaching staff, and the rest of our development staff will be in the building getting first-hand views of your performance.” /slaps a Sharks logo “so Rutger, can we sign this paperwork or what?”

Again, it seems very clear that McGroarty has no interest in spending time in the AHL. He wants a guaranteed NHL roster spot next season, or he’d just sign with the Jets.

 

[Gecklund]

Again, it seems very clear that McGroarty has no interest in spending time in the AHL. He wants a guaranteed NHL roster spot next season, or he’d just sign with the Jets.

From the sounds of it, it doesn’t necessarily need to be guaranteed but close to it. Basically Friedman said in the podcast yesterday, McGroarty was mad that the path wasn’t open for him late last season to early next season and he was given the choice of Manitoba or Michigan. Friedman and Marek both laughed off that of course he picked Michigan. Now I do think Chicago lands McGroarty but I definitely wouldn’t be mad if Grier acquired him.

 

[STL Shark]

Again, it seems very clear that McGroarty has no interest in spending time in the AHL. He wants a guaranteed NHL roster spot next season, or he’d just sign with the Jets.

I don't think it's a guarantee though (nor does anyone reporting on it). He wants a reasonable shot at winning an NHL job. Something that isn't going to happen when the Jets have Connor, Ehlers, Iafallo, Niederreiter, Villardi, Appleton, and Perfetti already slotted into the top 9 wing spots (and a 4th line spot since that is 7 wingers for 6 top 9 jobs).

 

[Hodge]

Why are we acting like our shit roster couldn't easily accommodate McGroarty?

 

[Jargon]

Why are we acting like our shit roster couldn't easily accommodate McGroarty?

I guess my question is how many rookies can we reasonably throw out there? I suspect that the goal is to build a gritty vet team around Smith/Celebrini (and Eklund) for next year. More rookies means more uncertainty and babysitting.

That’s what I suspect Grier and co. will think. I’m all in on the get McG, have Musty win a spot and run with half a rookie team, why the hell not.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Why are we acting like our shit roster couldn't easily accommodate McGroarty?

Aren’t you the one always saying that Mukhamadullin and Thrun should start in the AHL, Smith should start on the wing, and we shouldn’t be gifting NHL spots to rookies that haven’t earned them?

 

[Hodge]

Aren’t you the one always saying that Mukhamadullin and Thrun should start in the AHL, Smith should start on the wing, and we shouldn’t be gifting NHL spots to rookies that haven’t earned them?

Yes. What's your point? McGroarty should also start on the wing.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yes. What's your point? McGroarty should also start on the wing.

My point is that you suddenly think a 20 year old should be given a spot on an NHL roster without earning it is inconsistent with your insistence that 22 and 23 year olds do have to earn it. McGroarty ain’t special.

 

[Hodge]

My point is that you suddenly think a 20 year old should be given a spot on an NHL roster without earning it is inconsistent with your insistence that 22 and 23 year olds do have to earn it. McGroarty ain’t special.

What do you mean by earning it? I think Celebrini and Smith should be given a spot on the roster too despite their lack of AHL experience.

If guaranteeing McGroarty a NHL roster spot is a prerequisite for acquiring him, then who cares? Give him the roster spot. Hardly uncommon with college players.

 

[Juxtaposer]

What do you mean by earning it? I think Celebrini and Smith should be given a spot on the roster too despite their lack of AHL experience.

If guaranteeing McGroarty a NHL roster spot is a prerequisite for acquiring him, then who cares? Give him the roster spot. Hardly uncommon with college players.

My point is why does Mukhamadullin need to earn a spot but McGroarty gets to be given one without earning it?

I emphasize again, McGroarty is nothing special. There’s no guarantee that he’s one of the best 12 forwards in this organization.

 

[Hodge]

My point is why does Mukhamadullin need to earn a spot but McGroarty gets to be given one without earning it?

I emphasize again, McGroarty is nothing special. There’s no guarantee that he’s one of the best 12 forwards in this organization.

Because Mukhamadullin is already signed so we don't need to promise him a roster spot in order to sign him?

This has literally always been the procedure with college prospects in the cap era. If at the 20 game mark McGroarty has been truly awful in the NHL send him down. We actually have a competitive advantage here since we can afford to risk losing games because of him unlike a contender.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Because Mukhamadullin is already signed so we don't need to promise him a roster spot in order to sign him?

This has literally always been the procedure with college prospects in the cap era. If at the 20 game mark McGroarty has been truly awful in the NHL send him down. We actually have a competitive advantage here since we can afford to risk losing games because of him unlike a contender.

Yeah, because it would be great for our young kids to compete for spots only to have some kid who’s worse walk on to be handed their spot. Great way to run an organization.

You can be team “earn it” or team “play the kids”. You can’t pick and choose on a case by case basis. McGroarty is not such a great prospect that it’s worth ruining your integrity over.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Because Mukhamadullin is already signed so we don't need to promise him a roster spot in order to sign him?

This has literally always been the procedure with college prospects in the cap era. If at the 20 game mark McGroarty has been truly awful in the NHL send him down. We actually have a competitive advantage here since we can afford to risk losing games because of him unlike a contender.

Yeah but if you legitimately mean that prospects need to earn their spots, you wouldn't actually have interest in trading for one who requires a spot. It still means you don't actually care about the logic behind it. You just care about arguing regardless of consistency or accuracy.

 

[Hodge]

Yeah but if you legitimately mean that prospects need to earn their spots, you wouldn't actually have interest in trading for one who requires a spot. It still means you don't actually care about the logic behind it. You just care about arguing regardless of consistency or accuracy.

Again, what does "earning their spots" actually mean? Have Celebrini and Smith "earned" their spots?

I actually only care about increasing the Sharks chances of winning a Stanley Cup. Acquiring McGroarty helps accomplish that and if part of the cost paid is to give him a roster spot he doesn't deserve, so be it. If he is truly awful he will be sent down to the AHL anyway.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Again, what does "earning their spots" actually mean? Have Celebrini and Smith "earned" their spots?

I actually only care about increasing the Sharks chances of winning a Stanley Cup. Acquiring McGroarty helps accomplish that and if part of the cost paid is to give him a roster spot he doesn't deserve, so be it. If he is truly awful he will be sent down to the AHL anyway.

Then you should stop caring about earning their spots in other areas because it's not a clear cut concept that is incredibly arbitrary. It's a meaningless argument unless you have a clear definition of what earning a spot is and why it should impact our rebuild.

 

[Hodge]

Then you should stop caring about earning their spots in other areas because it's not a clear cut concept that is incredibly arbitrary. It's a meaningless argument unless you have a clear definition of what earning a spot is and why it should impact our rebuild.

I trust Grier and the development staff's determination of whether or not a player has earned his roster spot.

McGroarty is a separate issue. It's not about whether he has earned the spot. It's about whether you're willing to give him one in order to secure the player and I think we should be. We have nothing to lose.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I trust Grier and the development staff's determination of whether or not a player has earned his roster spot.

McGroarty is a separate issue. It's not about whether he has earned the spot. It's about whether you're willing to give him one in order to secure the player and I think we should be. We have nothing to lose.

If you trust Grier to do all your thinking for you as to what constitutes earning a roster spot then you don't care about the concept beyond using it against people in an argument. That's the point. McGroarty isn't really a separate issue. It's the same issue with a different avenue to get to the same spot. Does the player earn his roster spot or not? I don't mind trusting Grier for whatever but it's still a fallacious way to argue.

 

[TealManV]

I’m ready for today’s trade.

I wonder who it’ll be
JGP?
Kakko & Trouba?
McG?

 

[TheBeard]

I'd only trade for McGroaty if the price was heavily in our favor. 33 would be the most I'd give up. This reminds me too much of the Lundkvist situation (even if Rutger is two years younger).

I’m ready for today’s trade.

I wonder who it’ll be
JGP?
Kakko & Trouba?
McG?

Everyone is getting into Vegas today to settle in so I doubt there's gonna be any movement.

 

[one2gamble]

arguing to argue

 

[Gecklund]

I’m ready for today’s trade.

I wonder who it’ll be
JGP?
Kakko & Trouba?
McG?

Board of governors meeting today. Doubt anything happens.