ohloutsider
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I'm sorry, can you explain " successful coach" in this context? I'm not aware of him ever coaching a team to any championships?
2023 - 2024 OHL playoff prediction thread
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Most successful coaches ever??? I must have missed all those league titles and Mem Cup appearances. Have you ever watched his teams play in their own zone? I don't consider praying your goaltender stands on his head every night to be a very good defensive system that seems to beMarty's style of coaching
I agree. He is behind coaches like Dick Todd (who in my opinion is the best coach of his era), Brian Kilrea, Paul Theriault, Dale Hunter, George Burnett, Lou Crawford, Gary Green and Bert Templeman. All have have had far more success than Marty Williamson has.
All the Answers
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- Jan 19, 2020
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Peter Deboer. Did so much in not a long time. Great successes in Plymouth and Kitchener
ohloutsider
Registered User
Ya Stan Butler and if you want to go back far enough, Roger Neilson.
I agree with all three being good coaches and in the same category as the ones I mentioned.
Obviously it was a little agressive saying one of the best coaches ever....But just look at his winning % since he started. He wins a ton is my point. He develops good pros. I think it's absurd to think he's not a good coach. You can criticize him for his job as a GM and that I would agree with that. I also don't think any coach should be doing both duties. Also, how did the Icedogs do when he was coach there? How were they before and after?
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OMG67
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To be 100% honest, the OHL is a developmental league for coaches just as it is for players. I am of the opinion that legacy OHL coaches that compile significant win% over long periods of time is overrated to some degree. If the coach was very good and the measuring stick is longevity, win% and Championships, I am not sure looking at many of the coaches mentioned is as clear as it may seem.
If there is a good coach, that coach graduates like players. For example, take a look at DJ Smith. NO ONE is going to mention DJ Smith in the same breath as Brian Kilrea, Bert Templeton or Dick Todd. But, DJ was a successful coach for two franchises (Windsor and Oshawa). he may have only been an assistant in Windsor but they won two OHL Championships and the Memorial Cup both years and in three season with the Generals, he won a League Championship and Memorial Cup. Then he graduated to the Toronto Maple Leafs bench as an Assistant and then to the Senators as a Head Coach.
The DJ Smith trajectory “should” be the trajectory for all coaches. So, although Marty Williamson is a successful OHL Coach with 9 years behind a Barrie bench and 6 years behind the Niagara bench, if he were such a great coach, why no opportunities at the NHL level? That is not meant as disrespect either. Just a honest assessment of how we seem to revere long time OHL coaches when those coaches should be graduating to bigger and better leagues and not coming back.
Don’t necessarily disagree, but there were quite a few excellent OHL coaches that were more interested in coaching and developing jr aged boys than coaching professional men. Hawerchuk and Hunter are the more recent that I know of.
OMG67
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Definitely outliers. Kilrea went to the NHL and didn’t like it and returned and ended up in the HoF. So, yes, there are some for sure.
But, logically speaking, the best coaches aren’t the ones that have 500 OHL wins. They are the ones with five years in the league and a Championship. Now they are in the NHL and have won Coach of the Year trophies at that level. Bruce Cassidy lasted 80 games in the OHL but has a Stanley Cup ring and a Jack Adams Trophy. So it is always tough to really judge. It’s not as simple as listing the top 10 coaches based on total wins….
OHLTG
Registered User
"Best" is a very generic term for this, too. Most wins? Most titles? Most players gone to the NHL? Most players in the pros, period (NA + Europe)? There isn't one set of criteria and I think some of it depends on what the coach wants to do with his career, too.
I think defining an OHL coach as one of the “Best” is based on overall success. It is having a consistent winning record in the regular season, playoff series won, OHL Championships won and player development. I will use the example of the two Petes coaches that I mentioned in my previous post. Gary Green coached the Petes for two seasons from 1977 to 1979. Each year the Petes had a winning record in the regular season and won the OHA Championship both years and the Memorial Cup in 1979.
Dick Todd coached the Petes for twelve seasons from 1982 until 1993 before going to the NHL as an assistant coach and returned in 2004 to coach them for two more seasons from 2004 until 2006. Todd had a winning record every season he was coach. His teams only finished out of the top three in their division/conference (seven/eight team divisions and ten team conferences) once in those fourteen seasons. He won 24 playoff series in 36 series played. His teams went to the final four, ten out of fourteen seasons and went to the OHL finals five times and won three OHL Championships. He also had many former players play in the NHL. The remarkable thing was almost all them he had drafted into the OHL and they played their entire career with the Petes as he made very few trades. These are two examples of what in my opinion defines the “Best” coaches ever in the OHL.
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.. and UNB coach with 8 CIS titles and coached a Q team to the memorial cup in his spare time. He, Keefe, Hunter, Butler, Cameron are all very good imo. With all the changes over 20 years, it takes special people to be good with 17-18 yr olds when they’re approaching 70
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OMG67
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Additionally, one of the other things you pointed to is maybe the most important and that is how many players they graduate to Professional hockey. If the OHL is a developmental league, should winning championships matter at all when measuring the quality of a coach at this level? The coaches are supposed to develop hickey players for the next step on their journey. They are also moulding young men. They come in as kids and leave as adults. How many graduates are successful in life in general? Are they positive contributors to their local community? Did they graduate from a post-secondary institution (the ones that did not turn pro)? In other words, how prepared are they for life after hockey?
The more you go deeper into this topic, the more nuanced it gets.
bobber
Registered User
Pete Deboer had quite a record in the 13 years he was coaching in the OHL.
A fascinating discussion on the history of coaching success...but back to the topic at hand - playoff predictions. I think just to piss off the dude that sidetracked this whole conversation - Barrie is going all the way and will play 7 games each and every round
Pretty crazy we head to the final day of games and not even one series is set yet! Gonna be exciting to watch these last games.
OHLTG
Registered User
The "every point counts" cliche is completely true this season and I'm here for it!
My predictions for the first round are:
Eastern Conference:
Oshawa vs Barrie = Oshawa 4-0
North Bay vs Kingston = North Bay 4-2
Brantford vs Ottawa = Brantford 4-3
Mississauga vs Sudbury = Mississauga 4-2
Western Conference:
London vs Flint = London 4-0
Saginaw vs Owen Sound = Saginaw 4-1
Sault Ste Marie vs Guelph = Sault Ste Marie 4-2
Kitchener vs Erie = Kitchener 4-1
Eastern Conference:
Oshawa vs Barrie = Oshawa 4-0
North Bay vs Kingston = North Bay 4-2
Brantford vs Ottawa = Brantford 4-3
Mississauga vs Sudbury = Mississauga 4-2
Western Conference:
London vs Flint = London 4-0
Saginaw vs Owen Sound = Saginaw 4-1
Sault Ste Marie vs Guelph = Sault Ste Marie 4-2
Kitchener vs Erie = Kitchener 4-1
OHLTG
Registered User
Let's give 'er a shot...
Eastern Conference:
Oshawa vs Barrie - Oshawa in 4
North Bay vs Kingston - North Bay in 5
Brantford vs Ottawa - Brantford in 5
Mississauga vs Sudbury - Sudbury in 6
Western Conference:
London vs Flint - London in 4
Saginaw vs Owen Sound - Saginaw in 5
Sault Ste Marie vs Guelph - Soo in 5
Kitchener vs Erie - Kitchener in 5
Eastern Conference:
Oshawa vs Barrie - Oshawa in 4
North Bay vs Kingston - North Bay in 5
Brantford vs Ottawa - Brantford in 5
Mississauga vs Sudbury - Sudbury in 6
Western Conference:
London vs Flint - London in 4
Saginaw vs Owen Sound - Saginaw in 5
Sault Ste Marie vs Guelph - Soo in 5
Kitchener vs Erie - Kitchener in 5
Oshawa-Barrie Oshawa in 4
North Bay-Kingston North Bay in 5
Brantford-Ottawa Brantford in 5
Mississauga-Sudbury Sudbury in 5
London-Flint London in 4
Saginaw-Owen Sound Saginaw in 4
Soo-Guelph Soo in 4
Kitchener-Erie Kitchener in 6
North Bay-Kingston North Bay in 5
Brantford-Ottawa Brantford in 5
Mississauga-Sudbury Sudbury in 5
London-Flint London in 4
Saginaw-Owen Sound Saginaw in 4
Soo-Guelph Soo in 4
Kitchener-Erie Kitchener in 6
Northern Maroon
Registered User
East:
Oshawa vs Barrie - Oshawa in 5
North Bay vs Kingston North Bay in 5
Brantford vs Ottawa Brantford in 5
Mississauga vs Sudbury Mississauga in 6
West:
London vs Flint - London in 5
Saginaw vs Owen Sound - Saginaw in 5
SSM vs Guelph - SSM in 5
Kitchener vs Erie - Erie in 6
Oshawa vs Barrie - Oshawa in 5
North Bay vs Kingston North Bay in 5
Brantford vs Ottawa Brantford in 5
Mississauga vs Sudbury Mississauga in 6
West:
London vs Flint - London in 5
Saginaw vs Owen Sound - Saginaw in 5
SSM vs Guelph - SSM in 5
Kitchener vs Erie - Erie in 6
East
Oshawa in four
North Bay in five
Brantford in six
Missy in seven
West
London in four
Saginaw in six
Sault in six
Kitchener in. Seven
Oshawa in four
North Bay in five
Brantford in six
Missy in seven
West
London in four
Saginaw in six
Sault in six
Kitchener in. Seven
StingUpdates
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- Jan 12, 2019
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East:
Oshawa in 4
North Bay in 5
Brantford in 7
Sudbury in 6
West:
London in 4
Saginaw in 6
Soo in 5
Kitchener in 6
Oshawa in 4
North Bay in 5
Brantford in 7
Sudbury in 6
West:
London in 4
Saginaw in 6
Soo in 5
Kitchener in 6
