Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

[Stammertime91]

yeah the sudden Duclair hate is crazy. The dude was brilliant in the regular season, and only played one series with us. He had some nice chances in game 5, not sure where all this hate comes from all of a sudden.

A critique against him from other fan bases was lazy defensively. That came to light in the Florida series. He didn't really offer much offensively either. Regular season is different and while he was good there, his game didn't elevate in the playoffs. He's probably going to be too rich to afford for us as well.

Lmao you guys turn your opinions quick on 5-6 games. Hagel and McD were awful in their first playoff runs with the team too.

Duclair should be brought back within reason, there's no one on the market with as much of a ceiling at the same price and we already gave up assets to get him. He wasnt any worse than Nick Paul who was complete garbage defensively all series.

Hagel was very good defensively on one foot although a black hole offensively. McDonagh had a successful track record as a leader and player before joining. Tough comparison.

I'm content with Paul at 3C making 3 million a year, scoring 15-20 goals and capable of playing special teams than Duclair making more than 3M to ghost when times get tough. Especially when the coach says "if you don't believe, don't come," and he's limited from 15-17mins to immediately 9 and 10mins TOI. It's not just a few lmao fans that see he's ineffective when intensity picks up, it's multiple fanbases and several teams.

He had 4 goals in 20 games last postseason while playing 15mins a night. He's almost 30. He has 5 career playoff goals in 39 games. This isn't exactly the JT Miller situation who was younger and was better offensively. Duclair is what he is. Unless he's very cheap, no thanks.

 

[Lightning1995]

Clearly the Lightning are gonna continue down this top heavy path, hopefully it works out for one more run. This offseason I assume a Stammer deal gets done. From there i hope….

Keep Chaffee, hopefully the arbitration rights dont prevent this
Hopefully Motte can be signed for around league minimum

That leaves the Lightning a top six forward short. I don’t see where there’s room for Duclair though I’m not against it for a cheap contract. Don’t see how his salary at even 3MM fits. Hopefully one of the kids can slot in, need to leave Paul at 3C.

How does the team get better? I know the buzz word is structure but do the Bolts have the horses on the back end? Serge taking a BIG step is really the only path I see to possible cup contention.

Maybe the Lightning sign stammer and just run it back with a little cap space left over that can accrue without the Seabrook contract hanging over JBBs head. Perhaps another top 6 rental at the deadline to round things out next season.

 

[Zwui21]

Running back what we had this season = another underwhelming and disappointing outcome.

IMO we either find a way to retool or we continue down this path of steady decline that will leave us in a mediocrity limbo à la Minnesota Wild.
Noah Hanifin would have been the perfect piece to kickstart the retool, but he's gone now so we'll have to get creative with other players.

 

[Antiramie]

Lmao you guys turn your opinions quick on 5-6 games. Hagel and McD were awful in their first playoff runs with the team too.

Duclair should be brought back within reason, there's no one on the market with as much of a ceiling at the same price and we already gave up assets to get him. He wasnt any worse than Nick Paul who was complete garbage defensively all series.

Hagel and McD were studs when we got them. It just took time for them to start gelling.

Duclair is a turnover-prone, one-trick journeyman that was on the worst team in the league before we had the galaxy brain idea of not only picking him up for a playoff run but also putting him on the top line. He got hot right off the bat because he happened to find himself at the right place at the right time and made the most of those opportunities. Everything after that was reverting to the mean.

The guy has no business being remotely close to our top 6 or re-signed for what he’s making now…especially if we consider ourselves a playoff contender going forward.

 

[T REX]

Duclair is the epitome of dumpster diving.

I feel we are regulated to the clearance rack at the NHL version of Walmart.

Go JBB!

 

[Sky04]

Hagel and McD were studs when we got them. It just took time for them to start gelling.

Duclair is a turnover-prone, one-trick journeyman that was on the worst team in the league before we had the galaxy brain idea of not only picking him up for a playoff run but also putting him on the top line. He got hot right off the bat because he happened to find himself at the right place at the right time and made the most of those opportunities. Everything after that was reverting to the mean.

The guy has no business being remotely close to our top 6 or re-signed for what he’s making now…especially if we consider ourselves a playoff contender going forward.

Hagel was awful in the Toronto series, turnover machine who couldn't finish anything. Funny you bring that up with Duclair but not Hagel.

15 points 8 goals in 17 games, oh yeah we can definitely find better players at 3M, care to name some? Or do we just sign more Shearys?

 

[Stammertime91]

Hagel was awful in the Toronto series, turnover machine who couldn't finish anything. Funny you bring that up with Duclair but not Hagel.

15 points 8 goals in 17 games, oh yeah we can definitely find better players at 3M, care to name some? Or do we just sign more Shearys?

Or, we move Sheary, don't resign Duclair, and look elsewhere? Duclair had a chance to win game 2 on a breakaway and failed. Hagel was a black hole offensively in his first go with us. Then in his last 11 games, he has 4g and 6a. That's a track record worth noting. Duclair is not a playoff performer. He's not a guy to rely on when the game gets difficult. It's not just our fanbase coming to this conclusion, it's other fanbases and coaching staffs. His TOI got cut quite a bit in games 4 and 5, one of which we actually won and Hagel carried the team that night.

I'd rather let Duclair walk. I doubt he'd sign for cheap.

 

[Sky04]

Or, we move Sheary, don't resign Duclair, and look elsewhere? Duclair had a chance to win game 2 on a breakaway and failed. Hagel was a black hole offensively in his first go with us. Then in his last 11 games, he has 4g and 6a. That's a track record worth noting. Duclair is not a playoff performer. He's not a guy to rely on when the game gets difficult. It's not just our fanbase coming to this conclusion, it's other fanbases and coaching staffs. His TOI got cut quite a bit in games 4 and 5, one of which we actually won and Hagel carried the team that night.

I'd rather let Duclair walk. I doubt he'd sign for cheap.

He's 3M player, this is like saying we need Nick Paul to be the guy to lead us in the playoffs. What are you guys talking about? All he needs to do is be a supporting scorer which he did, the turn on a 5 game sample size is weird. Duclair was excellent in the Panthers run the other year so not sure what you're talking about.

Hagel had a breakways and empty nets to tap in which couldve ended the Toronto series before we played an eventual 7th game where Brayden Point ultimately got injured, guess he's not a guy to be relied on either? Or did he just need more time?

I doubt you're finding a better player at 5M either, just going to be a more expensive complaint based on the track record.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Duclairs biggest problem is he has bad knees, he cxame back for the playoffs but was injured. Plenty of Cap space next year to resign Stamkos, and add two more forwards. Crozier and Lilleberg come back with more experience; they can only get better......

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Lmao you guys turn your opinions quick on 5-6 games. Hagel and McD were awful in their first playoff runs with the team too.

Duclair should be brought back within reason, there's no one on the market with as much of a ceiling at the same price and we already gave up assets to get him. He wasnt any worse than Nick Paul who was complete garbage defensively all series.

Not a good comparison - Hagel you at least saw the ability and by the end of the year went "holy shit, this guy is snakebitten in the worst way". With Duclair in the playoffs it was more of a "he knows the game started, right?"

I don't mean his defensive play, I honestly don't think it was that terrible away from the puck especially when you've got Sheary, etc... but the fact that more than f***ing ever we needed production from him in the playoffs and he was softer than a stick of butter in a July cookout. He isn't built for playoff hockey, not even slightly. No intensity, no killer instinct. When they needed him most in some of these games against Florida, they glued him to the bench.

 

[Stammertime91]

He's 3M player, this is like saying we need Nick Paul to be the guy to lead us in the playoffs. What are you guys talking about? All he needs to do is be a supporting scorer which he did, the turn on a 5 game sample size is weird. Duclair was excellent in the Panthers run the other year so not sure what you're talking about.

Hagel had a breakways and empty nets to tap in which couldve ended the Toronto series before we played an eventual 7th game where Brayden Point ultimately got injured, guess he's not a guy to be relied on either? Or did he just need more time?

I doubt you're finding a better player at 5M either, just going to be a more expensive complaint based on the track record.

I don't expect Paul to lead us, that's a strawman. The "turn" was a shiny new toy fitting in and reverting to prior experience.

Hagel is a much different player with less experience than getting Duclair at 28 years old. Hagel played on a broken foot, forechecked harder on one foot than Duclair on two. And yes, he needed more time which is obvious because since then he's been lights out. There's no disputing that.

So your solution is because people will complain about a more expensive option, we should resign this option at a more expensive cap hit and deal with it? Lol. Cause he's not resigning for what he just made... resigning him for an increase shouldn't happen. He's not a bad player, he's just not a playoff contributor. 4 goals in 20 games is far from "excellent" when he's a penciled in top 6 option for +4M for us. I'm all for moving Sheary and letting him walk.

 

[Rschmitz]

With Duclair it’s a money issue, pointing out he disappointed in the postseason is a fact and must be considered. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bring him back or offer him a contract, but his asking price and our offering price should reflect realities

 

[LightningStrikes]

There is no denying that he had an instant impact when brought in. Great chemistry with Stammer and for once we had a legit 2nd line with either him or Hagel on it.

There’s also the fact that he had no impact in the playoffs and had his ice time reduced to 10 minutes and below eventually.

As long as it’s at a reasonable cap hit I’m not against bringing back Duke. If he’s chasing the money he’ll get lucky elsewhere. The guy scored 30+ goals two seasons ago.

 

[Outl4w]

Hagel was awful in the Toronto series, turnover machine who couldn't finish anything. Funny you bring that up with Duclair but not Hagel.

15 points 8 goals in 17 games, oh yeah we can definitely find better players at 3M, care to name some? Or do we just sign more Shearys?

If he resigns for 3m and we dump sheary's contract would be epic. I doubt he signs for only 3 million though. If he is willing to sign for that, that is a great deal for the team.

 

[Point21]

Benoit Groulx heading to the KHL

 

[Hockeyville USA]

There is no denying that he had an instant impact when brought in. Great chemistry with Stammer and for once we had a legit 2nd line with either him or Hagel on it.

There’s also the fact that he had no impact in the playoffs and had his ice time reduced to 10 minutes and below eventually.

As long as it’s at a reasonable cap hit I’m not against bringing back Duke. If he’s chasing the money he’ll get lucky elsewhere. The guy scored 30+ goals two seasons ago.

He can go back to San Jose and make good money (higher taxes & housing costs though) there, no pressure to win.

He can come back to Tampa, make decent money, and play with good players where he will be in spots to produce.

Or he can take below market value to play with, let's be honest, a team closer to a Cup than the Lightning, if he really wants to Cup chase.

Lots of things to consider for him.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

google translate:

Benoit Groulx - head coach of Traktor

The contract with the North American specialist is for two years.

Alexey Volkov, general manager of the club:
— Benoit Groux has been confirmed as the head coach of Traktor for the next two years. There were several specialists among the candidates for the post, but due to a combination of factors, the choice was made in favor of Benoit. Alexey Zavarukhin was offered to remain in the club system and head Chelmet. We received many positive recommendations from current players who worked with Gru, functionaries of the Canadian Hockey Federation and general managers of overseas clubs. They said that he is a great specialist in the field of player development, attentive to detail, strong tactically and knows how to motivate hockey players. In addition, we are impressed by his human qualities and desire to try his hand at the KHL. Before his appointment, Benoit presented us with his vision of the Traktor gaming model and it became clear that with him the team would be even more competitive in the fight for the main League trophy.

For the last seven years, the mentor has worked in the Tampa Bay system and had a direct connection to winning two Stanley Cups as a coach preparing the reserves for the main team. And, of course, we must not forget that Grou is the creator of the gold medals of the Canadian youth team, which won the World Championships in 2015. In the coming days, Benoit will begin forming his coaching staff, where he has complete carte blanche.

The only familiar face on that roster for Groulx is Zach Fucale who played 1 year with Orlando/Syracuse in 2019-2020, and was with Groulx for 2 World Juniors in 2014 and 2015. Fucale was just nominated as a finalist for the KHL's top goalie of this past season.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Stammertime91]

Man, tough breaks for Bowness. One of the or isn't he the winningest assistant coach? Yet also was one of the worst head coaches. His last couple jobs were an improvement but still came up empty handed. Grateful for his time here.

 

[Felonious Python]

Man, tough breaks for Bowness. One of the or isn't he the winningest assistant coach? Yet also was one of the worst head coaches. His last couple jobs were an improvement but still came up empty handed. Grateful for his time here.

I wouldn't categorize him as the 'worst'. His record as a head coach was weighed down by being the head coach of the expansion Ottawa Senators, and then taking over the Milbury era NY Islanders.

 

[Sky04]

Bowness was the definition of a players coach, everybody likes him but at the same time it probably leads to a lot of complacency.

 

[Stammertime91]

I wouldn't categorize him as the 'worst'. His record as a head coach was weighed down by being the head coach of the expansion Ottawa Senators, and then taking over the Milbury era NY Islanders.

Yeah I didn't mean like that per se. At one point statistically speaking he had the most wins as AC but least amount as HC, so worst in that regard. His time with Dallas and Winnipeg changed that, though.

 

[Outl4w]

1. Can they teach jeannot how to skate and play with intensity over a summer?

2. Do people like Paul at 3C? I’m not sure what to think.. I think he’s better on wing but he needs better wingers if he’s going to be 3C. Cause Chaffee is no bueno most games. He and jeannot constantly battle for most useless forward

I call it the given them hell 3rd line and 4th line .
Paul glendening gonglaves
Motte essymont Watson/chaffee
Jeannot has gotten worse since his nhl debut. I think he was carried and is got exposed as a 4th line plug that only has value when he is punching people.

 

[Stelio Kontos]

I call it the given them hell 3rd line and 4th line .
Paul glendening gonglaves
Motte essymont Watson/chaffee
Jeannot has gotten worse since his nhl debut. I think he was carried and is not exposed as a 4th line plug that only has value when he is punching people.

Agreed re Jeannot.

I’d go with

Eyssimont - Point - Kuch
Stamkos?- Cirelli - Hagel
Duclair? - Goncalves - Paul
Chaffee - GlenD - Jeannot
Motte / Sheary.

 

[Outl4w]

Agreed re Jeannot.

I’d go with

Eyssimont - Point - Kuch
Stamkos?- Cirelli - Hagel
Duclair? - Goncalves - Paul
Chaffee - GlenD - Jeannot
Motte / Sheary.

Hoping we dump sheary , jeannot, and perbix to make salary for a top4dman.