Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

JTBF81

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How many people think we're a playoff team in 2025? I'm quite skeptical, unless BriseBois or whoever is the GM pulls off the best possible summer.
Considering they had 98 points with thus team, and missing Vasy and Serg for considerable stretches, pretty likely as long as a couple of solid depth adds are made. With a healthy Vasy all year,.they probably have close to 110 points this season.
 

Hockeyville USA

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Friendly reminder that the last time this franchise had multiple 1st round exits in a row and the future looked bleak, they traded a top end player in Brad Richards (for a horrific return) and unintentionally tanked that resulted in Stamkos and Hedman.

Harder to do with the f***head GM trading away a 2025 or 2026 1st for f***ing Jeannot, but I guess we just have to wait a bit to see what the short and medium term future will be.
 
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TheSchmidt

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Dec 28, 2013
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Considering they had 98 points with thus team, and missing Vasy and Serg for considerable stretches, pretty likely as long as a couple of solid depth adds are made. With a healthy Vasy all year,.they probably have close to 110 points this season.
can we count on kucherov carrying us like that again? of course, there can be improvements elsewhere to hepl the load, but i dont have faith in jbb

florida, toronto, boston, rangers, carolina are likely locks

i expected detroit, ottawa, and buffalo to do more with all their young talent this year. maybe next year they make the jump

also new jersey is too talented to be that bad. they'll likely get a good goalie and be that third team in the metro
 
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Hockeyville USA

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can we count on kucherov carrying us like that again? of course, there can be improvements elsewhere to hepl the load, but i dont have faith in jbb

florida, toronto, boston, rangers, carolina are likely locks

i expected detroit, ottawa, and buffalo to do more with all their young talent this year. maybe next year they make the jump

also new jersey is too talented to be that bad. they'll likely get a good goalie and be that third team in the metro
I have a bad feeling that we fall to about 87-90 points, miss the playoffs, and give the Predators the 13th pick.
 

Stelio Kontos

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Hey cut jeannot some slack he had 3 shots this game after having 0 in his last 4! It was a great trade! I love watching him plod around the ice not doing shit but give other plays a stern talking to after the whistle rather than help us win games.

Our entire bottom 6 was f***ing shit + cirelli Duclair and Kuch not scoring a single goal!! Paul isn’t the answer at 3C. Glen Ds old ass can walk. Don’t know why Chaffee was stapled to the 3rd line the whole series

Eyssimont Motte Paul are the only bottom 6ers that should be guaranteed. This team is way to slow

f*** I’d be ok with Eyssimont - Motte - Jeannot as the 4th line next year. But we need a 3C and a scoring winger
 
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Hockeyville USA

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Hey cut jeannot some slack he had 3 shots this game after having 0 in his last 4! It was a great trade! I love watching him plod around the ice not doing shit but give other plays a stern talking to after the whistle rather than help us win games.

Our entire bottom 6 was f***ing shit + cirelli Duclair and Kuch not scoring a single goal!! Paul isn’t the answer at 3C. Glen Ds old ass can walk. Don’t know why Chaffee was stapled to the 3rd line the whole series but he f***ing sucked.

Eyssimont Motte Paul are the only bottom 6ers that should be guaranteed. This team is way to slow
While the Colton trade made some sense, it opened up a huge hole that Sheary obviously didn't replace. Watch BriseBois trade Paul for a nice return, but it only opens up another hole that we can't replace easily.
 

DownIsTheNewUp

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We're stuck in no mans land. Don't have the assets to get better and not bad enough to tank. Get ready for more years of mediocrity.

It would be absolutely stupid to let Stamkos walk if he's willing to sign a reasonable number. He's the heart and soul of this team. Looked like the only guy really laying it all out this series and also the only guy able to hit the back of the net.

Almost 30 years I've watched this team through thick and thin, but losing Stamkos when he's made it clear he wants to retire here would be a huge blow to my interest in this team.
 

TheSchmidt

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We're stuck in no mans land. Don't have the assets to get better and not bad enough to tank. Get ready for more years of mediocrity.

It would be absolutely stupid to let Stamkos walk if he's willing to sign a reasonable number. He's the heart and soul of this team. Looked like the only guy really laying it all out this series and also the only guy able to hit the back of the net.

Almost 30 years I've watched this team through thick and thin, but losing Stamkos when he's made it clear he wants to retire here would be a huge blow to my interest in this team.
not necessarily

JBB just needs to be savvy. There are always bargains out there in UFA, he just hasn't been good enough to find them yet

A quick retool by trading some of the fan favorite, over priced vets can still make us legitimate contenders
 

DownIsTheNewUp

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not necessarily

JBB just needs to be savvy. There are always bargains out there in UFA, he just hasn't been good enough to find them yet

A quick retool by trading some of the fan favorite, over priced vets can still make us legitimate contenders
Bargains in UFA????? Very rare. Who do you have in mind?
 

Stelio Kontos

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While the Colton trade made some sense, it opened up a huge hole that Sheary obviously didn't replace. Watch BriseBois trade Paul for a nice return, but it only opens up another hole that we can't replace easily.

Agreed. JBB needs to trade sheary this off season ntc goes to 16 teams June 15th but I’m sure we will have to pay to get rid of him. Even if sheary finds his form reg season he’s somehow even worse in the playoffs.

I hope you are right about Dylan Duke being a player because we need the help.. him and Isaac Howard
 

TheSchmidt

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Bargains in UFA????? Very rare. Who do you have in mind?
i haven't taken a super close look to this years class yet

but just looking what our division rivals did last off-season

Mikkola is eating 20 minutes a night for Florida at $2.5mil a year and Boston got Geekie and his 39 points for $2mil a year
 
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Hockeyville USA

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Agreed. JBB needs to trade sheary this off season ntc goes to 16 teams June 15th but I’m sure we will have to pay to get rid of him. Even if sheary finds his form reg season he’s somehow even worse in the playoffs.

I hope you are right about Dylan Duke being a player because we need the help.. him and Isaac Howard
Duke should be capable of being a 20-20 guy in the league if he continues to develop. He grew every year in terms of production, skating, all around game in the NCAA at Michigan. Probably won't ever be the ceiling of player, but could fit the Killorn role.
 

DownIsTheNewUp

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not necessarily

JBB just needs to be savvy. There are always bargains out there in UFA, he just hasn't been good enough to find them yet

A quick retool by trading some of the fan favorite, over priced vets can still make us legitimate contenders
Also, the over priced vet comment makes no sense. I don't know if you noticed but the vets (Stamkos, Hedman) were our best forward and dman in this series. Their next contracts they will make even less. That's the bargain out there.

Right now the over priced guys are the guys in their prime (Cirelli, Cernak, Sergachev). Good players but they're the ones not living up to their contracts
 

JTBF81

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can we count on kucherov carrying us like that again? of course, there can be improvements elsewhere to hepl the load, but i dont have faith in jbb

florida, toronto, boston, rangers, carolina are likely locks

i expected detroit, ottawa, and buffalo to do more with all their young talent this year. maybe next year they make the jump

also new jersey is too talented to be that bad. they'll likely get a good goalie and be that third team in the metro
Even if Kuch doesn't have 140+ points again, there is more than enough to make the playoffs. Again, if Vasy and Serg were healthy all year, Tampa finishes 2nd at worst in the division and maybe wins it. They had 3 guys score 40+ and 7 hit 20+. If JBB clears out the dead weight contracts, re-signs Stamkos plus one other upgrade at F and on D, the team will be fine barring some other set of crippling injuries. Trading any of the young big name rfa's makes little sense unless they're getting a top 4 dman that coats less than Cirelli and has term, or a top 6 F and top 4 dman(and then they'd need another high quality RD as well) that costs less than or equal.to both Cirelli and Cernak. Trading either for futures is a terrible blunder unless those picks/prospects are immediately used to acquire the "upgrades" that are replacing them.

I'd just re-sign Stamkos, sign a middle 6 F with top 6 upside(if Duclair isn't the focus), and look to spend around 3 on depth RD upgrade over either Dumba or Perbix. They should also fire Blashill quickly and institute a defensive system that works for the team. Offense has been fine the last 3 years, averaging 3.467 gf/g, while.the defense has steadily dropped from 2.86 to 3.07 to 3.26 this year. Seems pretty clear the defense needs an upgrade and some new schemes that fit this group.
 

TheSchmidt

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Also, the over priced vet comment makes no sense. I don't know if you noticed but the vets (Stamkos, Hedman) were our best forward and dman in this series. Their next contracts they will make even less. That's the bargain out there.

Right now the over priced guys are the guys in their prime (Cirelli, Cernak, Sergachev). Good players but they're the ones not living up to their contracts
My overpriced comment was meant for who you mentioned. And I would hesitantly include Paul in that mix.

Don't see them moving Sergachev. He's the heir apparent to Hedman whether we like it or not. I don't think he'll ever be a true #1dman, but he's the guy.

Cirelli is easily our best defensive forward, overpriced since that offense is never coming along, but we'd be so poor down the middle defensively without him

That leaves Cernak as the most likely to go if they want to shake things up
 
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bov

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This doesn't compute. If they had every intention of signing him, why not qualify his league minimum salary and guarantee retention? He was an RFA. If he goes to arbitration and wins, you can just let him walk if it's too much. If another team like Florida starts sniffing, they'd have to give us picks.
I remember it, same as Marchessault. There wasn't a guaranteed role for them.
 

Stammertime91

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If the "issue" for salary is anybody, it's Anthony Cirelli. We have too much money tied up in centers. Paul is a baller and on a great contract for his style. He just needs two NHLers with him, not AHLers.

Point/Stamkos/Paul is a better 1-2-3 than Point/Cirelli/Paul. I like Cirelli and I know he lays it on the line in crunch time defensively. He's got a motor few guys in Lightning sweaters have had, but he's still a 2.5C. This has been the thing with him for his entire career. Paul can play 3C and Glendening 4C or anybody on league minimum. We can't have this logjam at center.

Resign Stamkos, move Cirelli. Put Kucherov and Stamkos together. Put Point with Hagel. Point was absolutely tragic defensively all season and it didn't change in the playoffs. Losing Cirelli hurts but a line with Hagel, Point, and another feisty winger not named Duclair would be fine.
 

DownIsTheNewUp

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My overpriced comment was meant for who you mentioned. And I would hesitantly include Paul in that mix.

Don't see them moving Sergachev. He's the heir apparent to Hedman whether we like it or not. I don't think he'll ever be a true #1dman, but he's the guy.

Cirelli is easily our best defensive forward, overpriced since that offense is never coming along, but we'd be so poor down the middle defensively without him

That leaves Cernak as the most likely to go if they want to shake things up
I agree with all of that. Cernak most likely moved, but our defensive depth is already so bad. Could we get two solid dmen for his cap hit? I really doubt it. There's just no good way out of this unless JBB hits some home runs and my confidence is low on that.
 

DownIsTheNewUp

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Point was absolutely tragic defensively all season and it didn't change in the playoffs.
Yeah I think Point was the biggest surprise all year. I almost hope that there was an injury or something there that would explain why his play fell off so bad this year. He used be so good with the zone entries and now he just carries it to the wall where it gets poke checked away every time. Maddening.
 

Hoek

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We're stuck in no mans land. Don't have the assets to get better and not bad enough to tank. Get ready for more years of mediocrity.

It would be absolutely stupid to let Stamkos walk if he's willing to sign a reasonable number. He's the heart and soul of this team. Looked like the only guy really laying it all out this series and also the only guy able to hit the back of the net.

Almost 30 years I've watched this team through thick and thin, but losing Stamkos when he's made it clear he wants to retire here would be a huge blow to my interest in this team.
Yeah if it was as simple as letting Stamkos go means we can build a contender, then sure, but that's not really on the table is it? We swung and missed on Hanifin, which was probably our best chance at doing something big like that to retool. I dunno. Do folks see any other big moves like that? Because toying around at the edges with Stamkos' money isn't it. We gotta do something crazy like Vegas, except we don't have the assets to...
 

Stammertime91

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Yeah if it was as simple as letting Stamkos go means we can build a contender, then sure, but that's not really on the table is it? We swung and missed on Hanifin, which was probably our best chance at doing something big like that to retool. I dunno. Do folks see any other big moves like that? Because toying around at the edges isn't it. We gotta do something crazy like Vegas, except we don't have the assets to...
It's rather simple to be honest. Brisebois just needs to not f*** around and let his pride get the best of him.


Hagel - Point -
______ - Stamkos - Kucherov
______ - Paul - ______
______ - Glendening - Eyssimont

Hedman - Cernak
Sergachev - ______
Lilleberg - Raddysh

There's four forward spots up for grabs imo. Five if you're not sold on Glendening and I for one, am not. He's a good utility guy and PKer but we need speed and size there, of which he brings neither.

Out: Sheary, Watson, Dumba, Duclair, Jeannot, Chaffee, Perbix, Motte

Bringing back Motte would be okay but our 4th is not it. It's bad. Obvious moves out to bring anything back is Cirelli, Perbix, and Jeannot. Cirelli trade gives us a RD, easily. Jeannot and Perbix would fetch a bottom six player. Sign Stamkos and if there's a way to get a middle six forward, go for it.

The "fan favorite" that needs to go is Cirelli. The move JBB needs to just get past is Jeannot. I wish the best for Jeannot and his development but JBB did him and us no favors selling a f***ing class for him.
 

Rschmitz

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Here is where I am at.

No 1st round pick means no rebuild
No rebuild means no letting Stamkos walk
No letting Stamkos walk means no fixing holes with cap space
No fixing holes with cap space means we are in for repeat season of apathetic play.

Whippee
 
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