He will get his chance in training camp. If he shows an NHL defensive game he will be reevaluated.
Prospect Info: 2022 HFDevils Prospect Rankings #13
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At some point we will be trading a D for forward help ? I can’t remember ever having this kind of depth that we “ should “ be getting. I guess it’s still too early to bank on all our higher end prospects being what they project to be but so far it looks like we have more D that will be NHL’ers than roster spots?
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NJ needs help with fur? I thought that was not politically correct anymore?
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Why would you say Malek is ahead of Brennan?
That may be the case but he (Malek) was a projection pick when he was selected and has been a bit lower in the depth charts of the Czech junior program - one not known for outstanding goalies in recent years.
It will be interesting to see how much he plays in Finland.
Gauthier was also undrafted and post much better numbers then Brennan. Context? Absolutely, but an unheralded goalie did post good #'s on Prince George this year.
A kid who was a full year younger than Brennan posted the exact same #'s as Brennan this year.
Now if the argument is more about abilities then #'s? That's fine, I don't mind playing that game, but why does that argument not also work with Stillman?
I was just talking in terms of draft year. All things being equal they would typically look at the older kid first. I haven't watched either goalie yet so I can't really say who would project higher. I will say both were picked around the same spot and Malek was unranked as I recall so clearly Nj saw something they liked. He had a good season in the league he was in which I think was the check lower men's league? In any event, both Daws and Schmid seem to be good developmental goalie picks so I'll give NJ the benefit of the doubt on Brennan and Malek. Still, the team probably has to suck it up and pick a goalie like Askarov or Cossa in the next draft or two. A truly highly rated goalie worth a first round pick. These developmental guys are tough to project and you only get so many years with an ELC to develop the goalie before you have to pay him as an RFA at which point you probably move on from him if he hasn't developed.
You raise valid points with Brennan, but again, Brennan had good playoff numbers. There was a reason Brennan was the consensus top North American goalie and the other guys weren't. Lots of eyeballs were on Brennan this season and at least some of the scouts must have looked at the numbers too. I'll give NJ the benefit of the doubt with development goalie picks. Most of the recent ones have done ok. As for Stillman, we don't really know what he's capable of in my view. He had some significant injuries last season and it sounds like he played hurt for much of it. Hopefully he's healthy this season and we can see what he can really do.
Well then there was also a reason Stillman went 1st rnd while Brennan went 4th.
As per Brennan's #'s in 4 playoff games, in which I assume he went 0-4? Meh.
it's comparing apples and oranges though. Brennan was the third goalie picked. How many RWs went ahead of Stillman? There are always multiple ways to cut the baloney when looking solely at numbers. I'm not suggesting Brennan is a great prospect and Stillman is terrible. I haven't watched either guy yet so I'l refrain from ranking either guy but I just believe numbers can only take you so far and unless you put eyeballs on a guy you are only getting part of the picture.
Hamilton missed 20 games last year. The year prior we played Vats, Tennyson and Carrick a combined 60 games. One of Walsh's supposed strengths is on the PP and our PP was dreadful last year. But you think there was no opportunity for Fitz to get him in there? Nah there was plenty.
Looking ahead to next season who do we think is higher on the depth chart Nemec or Walsh? Clearly Nemec, especially as the season progresses, and even more so looking a year out. If Fitz thought Walsh was ready to make a significant impact at the NHL level doing the things he does well, I think that definitely changes the Devils mindset at the draft, maybe they go with the more physical d-man with the #2 pick, maybe they go with the fwd, but they didn't, they drafted a guy who almost surely leaves Walsh out in the cold.
As per Walsh's skating, I haven't seen much which suggests he is a good skater. Maybe he's merely average? Possible, but even then, a small offensive minded d-man who is a merely average skater? I just don't see much opportunity for that player at the NHL level.
4th round is still 4th round. 3rd goalie pick speaks more to a weak goalie class then painting a rosie picture of Brennan.
Watch the goalie and tell me what you see. Right now you are just guessing and I'm not sure what your point is. Is anyone saying Brennan is a sure fire NHL goalie or something? Is there some big Stillman Brennan debate happening? I get the negativity but they picked Brennan for a reason. Bad goalie crop or not they invested a fourth rounder on him and they didn't have to pick him if they thought there weren't any good prospect goalies in that part of the draft. They haven't made terrible goalie picks so I will give them the benefit of the doubt. After being a surprising pick last draft, Malek had what looks like a nice season. They picked Daws and Schmid in the third and fifth round and both had a solid AHL debut. Daws had meh numbers in Germany so it's not like he looked like a sure thing headed into the season. There's a reason goalies are seen as voodoo by a number of scouts and draft writers like our own @StevenToddIves. The numbers often don't add up for them. You can't just look at goalie numbers to divine context. His playoff numbers may not impress you but he stopped a lot of shots in meaningful games you don't have to be impressed but it happened. We will see, both are several years away from making an impact if it ever happens. I think the issue with Stillman is he's seen as a mucker and grinder for the third line and he has average size. Some folks are disappointed with a first round pick, even a lower one, who doesn't have top six type skill shown. Again, I haven't watched him so we will see. I am giving him a pass for last season since he was injured and concussed.
There was opportunity to get Reilly Walsh in if Fitzgerald had the delusion that the power play could be fixed by a rookie. This is in fact a delusion he had at one point, but was quickly disabused of, as Alex Holtz's call up did not last long. But the D were largely healthy most of the year, Christian Jaros ended up sitting a lot more than expected.
This is ridiculous. What the Devils do at the top of the draft should not be affected by their minor league players, not even one bit. If you project this thinking on to Fitzgerald, sure thing, but I hope he isn't affected by this at all. Not picking Wright because you have your top 2 centers signed for the next half-decade? Reasonable. Changing who you pick #2 overall because your minor league D might be ready for the NHL? Ludicrous.
Nemec is likely higher on the depth chart, but we have no idea, and also Nemec might be kept in the minors to extend his ELC by a year.
As per is redundant, but I haven't seen anything on Walsh's skating either. I think, as Nubmer6 said above, people have weird associations with guys like Butcher and Smith and project them on to Walsh.
Way to skip over the main point that Hamilton missed 20 games. Walsh on the PP was just an added incentive.
As per Holtz, a) he was 20, B) he unlike Walsh was given a shot, c) he was sent back down due to being lousy 5v5, not because he wasn't able to fix the pp.
Exactly, Walsh is a 23 year old minor league player. He's not highly thought of. This is my point.
If he was good, he wouldn't be in the minors.
It's not a weird association. They are all a fairly similar style of player.
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We are ranking prospects, thus I'm comparing resumes. Not sure why this is difficult to figure out.
Am I "guessing"? Well we're all just "guessing" to some extent aren't we?
Of course it’s all a guess. I just think when you hire someone comparing resumes is not enough process for me. I’d like a couple of interviews and skill testing to go along with it. Just my thoughts. You just sound sure about this which surprised me. I’m not saying you are wrong.
I'm just using the info which is available, we can't call these kids in for interviews.
Now I'm not sure if Stillman or Brennan will be the better player in the long run, but if you track this line of debate, there were those stating Stillman should not be getting votes, my reply was, why not, we just voted in a 4th rounder who put up poor #'s, why not a 1st rounder with poor #'s? We are at the point where these guys aren't going to have grade A resumes.
I agree that a number of posters have been very critical of Stillman since the pick was made. I always give a guy a pass if he has injuries and post concussion does seem to linger in some players. In his draft plus one year Bastian had a concussion that even after he returned he didn't play all that well and he had something of a down year. Stillman showed up hurt to Utica after his OHL playoff. I recall an article somewhere with some comments by a coach that spilled the beans a little on his injuries. I recall a broken finger, the concussion, and something else that sounded like it would impact his game (maybe a shoulder?). In any event, you make a fair point. There is always new player syndrome that has a way of creeping in. If Nemec doesn't light it up right away in Utica he will be criticized while right now he looks like a near sure fire NHL player who some probably expect to contend for NHL spot in training camp. I expect Walsh will be better than Nemec initially which will be a surprise to some if they don't take the age and experience discrepancy into account.
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I wasn’t making any argument in relationship to Stillman, vote for any prospect you want, I don’t debate that. There’s no reason to believe he’s a worse goalie than an overager who’s still in juniors in the equivalent of his D+3 season though.
Age matters in development. Games played also matters in development, typically more so with defenseman and most of all with goalies.
We drafted Brennan at #102, he’s still 18 and he hasn’t played much hockey, there’s a good amount of unknown there. Daws and Malik were older when we drafted them.
In North America, the NCAA is goalie factory compared to CHL, which has struggled a bit lately in producing goalies.
For the 2022 draft I came across Cameron Whitehead for a late round pick. He was an overager with not very impressive USHL numbers. However I saw him get a some love from some people who know how to scout goaltending prospects (I certainly don’t). He was 7th on Central Scoutings NA goalie rankings (Brennan was 1st).
But Whitehead is committed to Northeastern for 2023-24. Which is where Mike Richter Award winner (and should have won Hobey Bakey winner) Devon Levi plays. And Levi’s not their only recent winner, Cayden Primeau won the Richter in 2018-19.
And Whitehead has size. Primeau is a bit beefier, he was listed at 6’2” and 186 when he was drafted. Whitehead is a scrawnier 6’3” and 172 while Levi was 6’0” and 184 when drafted.
Anyhoo, Montreal drafted Primeau out of the USHL in 2017 in the 7th Rd (#199) and Florida drafted Levi out of the CCHL in 2020 in the 7th Rd (#212).
Vegas drafted Cameron Whitehead in the 4th Rd (#128), which is pretty wild, to me at least. Goaltending prospects are mess due to COVID though, almost everyone is a project.
Vegas could have just been weird about Whitehead but I wonder if teams will start to put a premium on goalies who play in the NCAA after Demko, Oettinger, Knight, Swayman etc success plus the top prospects. (Younger CHL goalies: Hart, Blackwood, Jarry, Nedeljkovic)
I'm not saying Gauthier or Young are as good or better prospects then Brennan, I was merely pointing to their #'s being as good, or significantly better when people here argued Brennan's poor #'s are due to playing on a bad team. I'm sure that played into it, but it was possible to post a solid save % on that team. And while Gauthier was a 2 years older then Brennan, Young is a full year younger.
So for Brennan, same as it is with Stillman the question is, is there more than the #'s suggest? I have no issues shrugging off the notion that the story is strictly in the numbers, but if we are going to use these nebulous factors such as "top rated NA goalie" why not also factor in where they were actually drafted?
Which kind of brings us back to the original Stillman criticism which was, he wouldn't be getting votes if he weren't drafted in the first round, but I'd argue back that he is getting negative push back because it appears he was drafted too high. Where as the board sentiment regarding Brennan is the opposite, he was very good draft day value. Stillman is viewed in a negative light, Brennan in a positive one.
As per is redundant. Walsh was called up in December but either he or Okhotiuk had COVID-19 and the callup was rescinded. We'll never know what would've happened had he been able to play.
You don't have any idea why Holtz was sent down. That's a reasonable inference, and he was indeed poor 5v5, but projecting your reasoning on to management is dangerous. He was immediately put on PP1 when he was promoted, an unusual move.
Your point initially was that Nemec, Marino, and Casey 'says a lot about how the Devils feel about Walsh', and my point was that they don't have anything to do with him. You then asserted that the Devils might've drafted Jiricek instead of Nemec if they thought highly of Walsh, and I claimed that is ridiculous. I still do claim that that is ridiculous, so it's not your point - you invented a scenario wherein the Devils would take into account their heretofore minor league depth when drafting #2 overall. I also claim it is ridiculous to think that the Devils drafting a player with a similar skillset 5 years after drafting Walsh means anything about how they feel about him. Wouldn't the fact that they didn't draft anyone with that skillset in the meantime be a point in Walsh's favor? They went 4 years without drafting an RHD with anything close to Walsh's profile, seems like they're counting on Walsh. Furthermore, John Marino is a PK/defensive D, he's another RHD, but his skillset has nothing to do with Walsh's.
Odds are Walsh is elsewhere by this time next year and a lot of this is moot, but my contention stays the same - those moves have nothing to do with Walsh.
I dunno about Walsh being better out of the gate, maybe Nemec struggles a bit getting acclimated, but the talent should far outshine that. I also think that if it's close Fitz leans Nemec. Especially later in the season.
It's not about taking minor league depth into account. It's the fact that Walsh is a minor leaguer. He's 23, he's played one NHL game. Fitz has acquired 3 RHD in a little over 1 years time who we can reasonably expect to play the bulk of the games in NJ over the next 4 years. There is no room for Walsh this upcoming season, there likely isn't a spot for him longer term either. There is nothing there which suggests Fitz thinks Walsh is a player, the moves all suggest the contrary.
And of course Holtz's play at 5v5 played a significant role in being sent back down. If he was good he would have stayed up. Nothing "dangerous" about this. More "dangerous" to say Fitz thought Holtz was going to fix the PP.
Walsh may be a tweener but until Nemec is acclimated Nemec may make too many mistakes or need to pick up the pace enough that it takes him half a season to surpass Walsh. He's an 18 year old kid. Talented or not, it's hard to compete with the experience of a smart 23 year old who knows this is maybe his last chance to impress the coaches enough to make the team or at least be the first call up. I expect Walsh to continue to pile up points in Utica and be the first PP option there to start the season. Nemec will almost certainly pass him up but I'd expect at least a 40 game or so acclimation. I don't think NJ rushes him and they might not even play him every game to allow him to grow slowly into a North American Pro. We will see.
