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WJC: 2022 Germany roster talk

Maverick41 said:
Nah, your question peaked my own curiosity to really look into this. And while I don't have the time for a really deep dive, I'll share my initial thoughts after a little bit of research (don' be fooled, this is going to be a long post).

First off, I made two groups out of it since it is still very early and difficult to evaluate the kids born in 05, 06 and 07.

About my approach:
I did not just look at the best players from each year regardless of position, but I wanted to take depth and balance into account as well. So I looked at the best 6 forwards, 3 defensemen and 1 goalie from each year and compared how they match up.
Since there is a lot more clarity on the older players than on the younger one, I tried to take into account how I viewed them back when they were in their draft years. I am not sure how well I managed this.

Based on this approach I would rank 2000-2004 like this:

1. 2002:
Obvious choice. A little weaker in goal, and defense is only very good, but not great, but the forwards are just insane

2. 2000:
After a clear gap the next three are fairly close. Despite Bokk not living up to his hype (he was still pretty good) their forward group was fairly solid and the defense was not as bad as I had originally feared. Also Hane was and is a solid goalie

3. 2004:
This was difficult, since I have looked far more closely into a lot of 2004 players than any of the other years, which might skew my perspective in their favor a bit. Lutz is really good and the depth behind him is not terrible. The defense looks pretty bad, but there could be a couple ofgood goalies.

4. 2001:
This was also really tricky for one reason, because frankly 2001 sucked for the most part. The forward group was underwhelming and the defense was Seider and well, that's about it. Of course Seider alone is almost good enough to lift this group past 2004 and possibly 2000. And Ancicka is a good goalie as well, but in the end I still ended up ranking them 4th because there is just no balance.

5. 2003:
Just like 2002 was the obvious number 1, 2003 is the obvious number 5. There are a couple decent forwards (Proske, Hänelt, Roßmy), but nothing on defense. Even a goalie with lots of potential like Quapp cannot make up for that, not even close.


So, now for the upcoming ones:
I really like 2005 and 2006 (especially 2005), but I don't have a good read on 2007 yet, so I am not really sure where to put them. For now the ranking of these three vintages is:
1. 2005
2. 2006
3. 2007
But this could change once I get more viewings of these kids, in particular the 2007 ones.

If I were to take a guess at a combined ranking this would be it:

1. 2002
2. 2005
3. 2006
4. 2000
5. 2004
6. 2001
7. 2007
8. 2003

2005 looks pretty good right now. Definitely not 2002 level good, but good.

The defense in particular looks more promising than any recent memory with Tropmann and Mayer being the standouts.

Forwards are slightly more of a question mark. But while they still are a far cry from what 2002 had, there seems to be solid depth and guys like Vinzens, Sumpf, Ruckdäschel and Fischer still look to be as good or better than anything we have seen since the 1995 group, except of course 2002 .

Goalies are always tricky for me, but I like what I have seen so far from guys like Willerscheid and Pertuch.


2006 appears to be more balanced but still weaker at every position than 2005. So there is a clear gap and I was not entirely sure if I should rank them just ahead of 2000 or just behind.

The forward position has decent depth and I like Seeger and Herzog in particular.

On defense the situation seems similar. I am very intrigued by Rio Kaiser and there are some others that look promising so far, but no real stand outs.

In goal Erik Eder was one of my early favorites, but I really don't know enough about this goalie class yet, to give a good evaluation.


2007 I am really not comfortable making any predictions about this class.

Among forwards I like Kessler and Späth and there are bunch of others that I am very curious about. This could very well turn into one of the better forward groups, but it is too soon to tell.

On defense I have really only one player that I am somewhat confident will turn into a decent prospect (Carlos Händel), but it is too soon to write the others off, especially since there a still a lot of them I have not even seen once.

As far as goalies born in 2007 are concerned I can honestly say, that I don't even know anything about them. I have no idea who is the head of the class so to speak, so that's that.

To anybody who has bothered to read this all the way through. Thank you, and I am impressed.
Click to expand...
Good job, good read!
 
Maverick41 said:
Nah, your question peaked my own curiosity to really look into this. And while I don't have the time for a really deep dive, I'll share my initial thoughts after a little bit of research (don' be fooled, this is going to be a long post).

First off, I made two groups out of it since it is still very early and difficult to evaluate the kids born in 05, 06 and 07.

About my approach:
I did not just look at the best players from each year regardless of position, but I wanted to take depth and balance into account as well. So I looked at the best 6 forwards, 3 defensemen and 1 goalie from each year and compared how they match up.
Since there is a lot more clarity on the older players than on the younger one, I tried to take into account how I viewed them back when they were in their draft years. I am not sure how well I managed this.

Based on this approach I would rank 2000-2004 like this:

1. 2002:
Obvious choice. A little weaker in goal, and defense is only very good, but not great, but the forwards are just insane

2. 2000:
After a clear gap the next three are fairly close. Despite Bokk not living up to his hype (he was still pretty good) their forward group was fairly solid and the defense was not as bad as I had originally feared. Also Hane was and is a solid goalie

3. 2004:
This was difficult, since I have looked far more closely into a lot of 2004 players than any of the other years, which might skew my perspective in their favor a bit. Lutz is really good and the depth behind him is not terrible. The defense looks pretty bad, but there could be a couple ofgood goalies.

4. 2001:
This was also really tricky for one reason, because frankly 2001 sucked for the most part. The forward group was underwhelming and the defense was Seider and well, that's about it. Of course Seider alone is almost good enough to lift this group past 2004 and possibly 2000. And Ancicka is a good goalie as well, but in the end I still ended up ranking them 4th because there is just no balance.

5. 2003:
Just like 2002 was the obvious number 1, 2003 is the obvious number 5. There are a couple decent forwards (Proske, Hänelt, Roßmy), but nothing on defense. Even a goalie with lots of potential like Quapp cannot make up for that, not even close.


So, now for the upcoming ones:
I really like 2005 and 2006 (especially 2005), but I don't have a good read on 2007 yet, so I am not really sure where to put them. For now the ranking of these three vintages is:
1. 2005
2. 2006
3. 2007
But this could change once I get more viewings of these kids, in particular the 2007 ones.

If I were to take a guess at a combined ranking this would be it:

1. 2002
2. 2005
3. 2006
4. 2000
5. 2004
6. 2001
7. 2007
8. 2003

2005 looks pretty good right now. Definitely not 2002 level good, but good.

The defense in particular looks more promising than any recent memory with Tropmann and Mayer being the standouts.

Forwards are slightly more of a question mark. But while they still are a far cry from what 2002 had, there seems to be solid depth and guys like Vinzens, Sumpf, Ruckdäschel and Fischer still look to be as good or better than anything we have seen since the 1995 group, except of course 2002 .

Goalies are always tricky for me, but I like what I have seen so far from guys like Willerscheid and Pertuch.


2006 appears to be more balanced but still weaker at every position than 2005. So there is a clear gap and I was not entirely sure if I should rank them just ahead of 2000 or just behind.

The forward position has decent depth and I like Seeger and Herzog in particular.

On defense the situation seems similar. I am very intrigued by Rio Kaiser and there are some others that look promising so far, but no real stand outs.

In goal Erik Eder was one of my early favorites, but I really don't know enough about this goalie class yet, to give a good evaluation.


2007 I am really not comfortable making any predictions about this class.

Among forwards I like Kessler and Späth and there are bunch of others that I am very curious about. This could very well turn into one of the better forward groups, but it is too soon to tell.

On defense I have really only one player that I am somewhat confident will turn into a decent prospect (Carlos Händel), but it is too soon to write the others off, especially since there a still a lot of them I have not even seen once.

As far as goalies born in 2007 are concerned I can honestly say, that I don't even know anything about them. I have no idea who is the head of the class so to speak, so that's that.

To anybody who has bothered to read this all the way through. Thank you, and I am impressed.
Click to expand...
Maverick thank you so much for your time and great description. Great work as always...
I really enjoy reading your reports
 
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salamandra said:
Maverick, Halfdan and others...

Could you briegly compare players born between years 00-07? Thanks for your time...
Click to expand...
I find that difficult, or rather, I don't allow myself to pass judgment on players born in 2004 and younger. Due to the pandemic, I have practically not seen the players of these years live. The general tenor in Germany is that the 2004-2006 cohorts are weaker and the 2007 cohort has better talent again. Without guarantee! I have to rely on the statements of others.
 
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Team is as such:

G:
(‘02) Florian Bugl
(‘03) Nikita Quapp
(‘02) Niklas Lunemann

D:
(‘02) Arkadiusz Dziambor
(‘03) Nils Elen
(‘02) Korbinian Geibel
(‘02) Maximilian Glotzl
(‘03) Adrian Klein
(‘02) Maksymilian Szuber
(‘03) Julian Waser
(‘03) Leon van der Linde

F:
(‘02) Alexander Blank
(‘03) Sebastian Commerman
(‘04) Luca Hauf
(‘03) Ryan Del Monte
(‘02) Jose Eham
(‘03) Nikolaus Heigl
(‘03) Thomas Heigl
(‘03) Haakon Hanelt
(‘02) Danjo Leonhardt
(‘03) Yannick Proske
(‘03) Bennett Rossmy
(‘02) Meciej Rutkowski
(‘02) Joshua Samanski
(‘02) Justin Volek
(‘02) Markus Schweiger
 
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Here are the players that were on the December team but won’t be in the August Team:
Florian Elias
Luca Munzenberger
Noah Dunham
Jussi Peterson
Justas Bottner
Yannick Burghart
Jakub Borzecki
Fabrizo Pilu


Team age is broken down as such:
13 2002 Born
12 2003 Born
1 2004 Born
 
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GermanSpitfire said:
Team is as such:

G:
(‘02) Florian Bugl
(‘03) Nikita Quapp
(‘02) Niklas Lunemann

D:
(‘02) Arkadiusz Dziambor
(‘03) Nils Elten
(‘02) Korbinian Geibel
(‘02) Maximilian Glotzl
(‘03) Adrian Klein
(‘02) Maksymilian Szuber
(‘03) Julian Waser
(‘03) Leon van der Linde

F:
(‘02) Alexander Blank
(‘03) Sebastian Cimmerman
(‘04) Luca Hauf
(‘03) Ryan Del Monte
(‘02) Jose Eham
(‘03) Nikolaus Heigl
(‘03) Thomas Heigl
(‘03) Haakon Hanelt
(‘02) Danjo Leonhardt
(‘03) Yannick Proske
(‘03) Bennett Rossmy
(‘02) Meciej Rutkowski
(‘02) Joshua Samanski
(‘02) Justin Volek
(‘02) Markus Schweiger
Click to expand...

Bold prediction: Our goalies will be busy. :sarcasm:

Goalies are not bad.

We have three solid defensemen with Glötzl, Szuber and Dziambor. I am really looking forward to see how well Geibel and Klein have developed since last time, and am also curious to see van der Linde, Wäser and Elten at this level. Could be a good experience for them going forward.

The forwards look painful when you remember who could have been on this team. Many younger players, but they could also get valuable experience that might help in the next tournament when they will be expected to carry the load.
I am surprised to see Del Monte on the team, but I guess he wouldn't be if he wasn't allowed to represent Germany.
 
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Anyone know why Lutz isn’t on the list?

Also looks like they are trying to get the 2003s some experience before December, and they will definitely need it.

Gonna be harsh and say the 2003s are gonna show people that German hockey isn’t that much on the rise as they think.
 
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Chompskiii said:
Anyone know why Lutz isn’t on the list?

Also looks like they are trying to get the 2003s some experience before December, and they will definitely need it.

Gonna be harsh and say the 2003s are gonna show people that German hockey isn’t that much on the rise as they think.
Click to expand...

I don't know why he wouldn't be there.
Maybe Red Bull wants him to spend as much time as possible with their team before he heads to the Coyotes training camp? Or maybe after all the hoopla with the combine, the draft and the rookie camp, he just needs a time out.

I haven't heard anything about injuries or whatever.

Unfortunately I have to agree with your thoughts on the 2003 vintage.
Sure, Quapp is a good goalie, and some of the forwards are not that bad. I like Proske and Hänelt for instance but they should not be the best forwards on your team if you want to compete at that level.
And the defense is just a disaster. You can only hope that the 2004s will carry the team in December.

This is kind of like a 2001 & 2002 situation just much worse. Because with all due respect to the 2004s there are no Stüzles, Reichels or Peterkas among them not even Lutz (though maybe he can get there or close to it), and of course 2003 has nobody even remotely like Seider was for the 2001 group.
 
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Chompskiii said:
Anyone know why Lutz isn’t on the list?

Also looks like they are trying to get the 2003s some experience before December, and they will definitely need it.

Gonna be harsh and say the 2003s are gonna show people that German hockey isn’t that much on the rise as they think.
Click to expand...
Assuming he was invited as he might be best forward on the team, he is not injured as far as I know... maybe he is hoping to impress at NHL camp?
 
The following players were cut from the squad after the camp ended:
Defender Julian Wäser and Forward Sebastian Cimmerman.

In Canada, defender Luca Münzenberger and forward Haakon Hänelt join the team.

Chapin Landvogt said:
I believe Münzenberg will be joining the team in Alberta directly, as we know Hänelt will be.

His absence in the official list was a likely error.
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No, it isn't. Lutz has participated in an NHL camp and could not join the preparation with the national team. I think that's the reason why he will be seen only in December.
 
Halfdan said:
No, it isn't. Lutz has participated in an NHL camp and could not join the preparation with the national team. I think that's the reason why he will be seen only in December.
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I didn't make any mention of Lutz in the post you quoted.

That post was about Münzenberg.
 
I don't quite understand that. In February, Florian Elias was captain. Szuber and Glötzl were already the assistants in February.
 
Goal and defense actually look solid. Szuber and Münzenberg are very strong and for in my eyes belong to the top 10 defensman in the tournament.
Up front we are lacking the 4 (1st and 2nd round) draftpicks, so I guess we will struggle there, otherwise we would have for German standards a very good team.
 
Maverick41 said:
If I were to take a guess at a combined ranking this would be it:

1. 2002
2. 2005
3. 2006
4. 2000
5. 2004
6. 2001
7. 2007
8. 2003

2005 looks pretty good right now. Definitely not 2002 level good, but good.

The defense in particular looks more promising than any recent memory with Tropmann and Mayer being the standouts.

Forwards are slightly more of a question mark. But while they still are a far cry from what 2002 had, there seems to be solid depth and guys like Vinzens, Sumpf, Ruckdäschel and Fischer still look to be as good or better than anything we have seen since the 1995 group, except of course 2002 .
Click to expand...
I am curious if you still feel the German 2005 breed is placed 2nd on this list after having seen them get wiped out at Hlinka Gretzky Cup?

I took a look at the team and I don't actually see any obvious draft prospects on the team. But it might be that you feel the depth of the 2005's are better than other years, I don't know?
 
Vandalay Industries said:
I am curious if you still feel the German 2005 breed is placed 2nd on this list after having seen them get wiped out at Hlinka Gretzky Cup?

I took a look at the team and I don't actually see any obvious draft prospects on the team. But it might be that you feel the depth of the 2005's are better than other years, I don't know?
Click to expand...
Germany was missing 2 of their best ‘05’s in Edwin Tropmann and Paul Vinzens. Not saying the result would be much different but you would have seen better offensive result than we saw.
On top of that, just because the ‘05 age group has some promising players, doesn’t mean their depth is very good. Bicker, Mayer and Brandl had very good tournaments but since it’s a team game you’re only as good as your weakest link.
Germany’s ‘05’s still look very promising.

Paul Mayer
Edwin Tropmann
Paul Vinzens
Kevin Bicker
Linus Brandl
Julius Sumpf
Timo Ruckdaschel

All will be on the radar’s of NHL teams to various degrees come their respective drafts. Mayer, Tropmann and Vinzens in particular we may see taken in the top 2 or 3 rounds of their NHL drafts which is exiting for German hockey.
 
Vandalay Industries said:
I am curious if you still feel the German 2005 breed is placed 2nd on this list after having seen them get wiped out at Hlinka Gretzky Cup?

I took a look at the team and I don't actually see any obvious draft prospects on the team. But it might be that you feel the depth of the 2005's are better than other years, I don't know?
Click to expand...

I don't see any reason to change the ranking. The only thing this has made clear is that the gap between 2002 and the rest is even bigger. Last year's team was blown out even worse and they had Julian Lutz, while this team is playing without one of their best forwards (before the tournament I would have said their best forward but Bicker may have taken that spot) in Paul Vinzens (I guess he is injured or sick, otherwise I see no reason not to play him) and Edwin Tropmann, who would have been their top defenseman.

I am pretty sure that even a team featuring Draisaitl, Kahun and Tiffels as well as the team of the coveted 2002 group would have been blown out if they faced competition of this level at that age. There is a reason why Germany is not usually playing in the Hlinka. Without the Russia situation they would not be there and instead probably play a tournament featuring teams like Austria, Belarus, Norway, France or Denmark. And since only one other group (2004) has even played in this tournament before, there is really no way to use this as a measuring stick against the others. We usually manage to close the gap a little bit by the time the kids play at the U20 and even there they routinely suffer blowouts, when they face the big names.

Are there any surefire draft picks on this team? No, but Paul Mayer, Kevin Bicker and Linus Brandl did well, and so did Dean Döge. They all have shown well enought at this level that I would not rule them out as possible draft picks, just yet. Especially when you consider that Mayer and Döge are 2024 eligible (same goes for Tropmann and Vinzens). They still have a lot of time to develop.

I also want to note, because maybe it did not come across in my previous post, that both the 2006, but especially the 2007 group might overtake 2005 in my ranking as I see more of them. And yes 2005 may also drop a little if players don't develop as I expect/hope, but the 2000 group is really the only one I could see them dropping below, because the rest was just so bad, if not at the top (Seider in 2001) then in depth.

Sorry, for the long winded response, to your simple question.
 
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