Prospect Info: 2022 8OA, Marco Kasper

[lilidk]

I'm not going to pretend that I know exactly where Kasper ends up in the lineup. But I'd be outright stunned if he isn't noticeably better than Rasmussen in at least the areas of physicality and overall intensity. A 30 point player who is soft as butter seems like a pretty poor direction to steer the Kasper thread.

His points depends who his wingers are. Can he center players like Raymond or Kane or Tarasenko, I know Veleno and Rasmussen can't.

 

[Gniwder]

Following that up with the "I hope I'm wrong" trope so you can cover your clairvoyant assessments is always a funny way to cap it off, as if that clears you of any liability of statement.

Yes, I'm worried about liability on HFBoards. God forbid I'm wrong, and you guys will sue me, lol. All I'm saying is that it's still too early to write him off, though I wasn't impressed last season. He's 20 years old, his career could go any direction.

Hits are so fundamentally useless as a defensive metric...

It's not a defensive metrics, but a measure of physicality. Nobody is worried about being defended by the rolls of toilet paper that Stevie is hoarding like it's COVID pandemic again. Especially during playoffs.

 

[norrisnick]

It's not a defensive metrics, but a measure of physicality. Nobody is worried about being defended by the rolls of toilet paper that Stevie is hoarding like it's COVID pandemic again. Especially during playoffs.

Who gives a shit about physicality? Dust off your Rockem' Sockem' tapes...

 

[dekelikekocur]

Lol. Imagine a conversation about centers and comparable centers to the Stanley Cup champion. Yet somehow trying to throw a fit about wingers and defense.

Literally no one talking about anything but what a potential center can bring the the team

Ogee: WeRe NoT aS gOoD aS fLoRiDa ThOuGh

Talk about looking for the most obscure reason to reach into an angry fit

Because it's a team sport, a good center on a really shitty team isn't going to put up the same numbers they would on a good team.
If the defense is constantly getting caved in, that center is spending the majority of their time chasing the puck instead of setting up plays and scoring goals.

How well do you think Barkov does if he were on worse team?

 

[19 for president]

Because it's a team sport, a good center on a really shitty team isn't going to put up the same numbers they would on a good team.
If the defense is constantly getting caved in, that center is spending the majority of their time chasing the puck instead of setting up plays and scoring goals.

How well do you think Barkov does if he were on worse team?

I don't always buy the he won't put up X points on worse team because there are lots of factors. PP vs PK time. Worse teams typically lend themselves to defensive forwards, so a two way guy may see less PK time and more PP time. Team depth is also a factor. Better teams usually have more depth so a top line player may play a lot more minutes on a worse team, thus making up some for the quality of teammates.

Also are we talking Wings bottom out bad or Wings team last year bad. I don't think Barkov's points dip if we say swap him and Larkin last year. PPG or a bit above isn't something I expect him to drop off a ton from, unless we are talking true bottom 5 team.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

You got some numbers to back up that claim?

Defensive metrics are still not that great for the nhl but when I get a minute I’ll slap something together.

Because it's a team sport, a good center on a really shitty team isn't going to put up the same numbers they would on a good team.
If the defense is constantly getting caved in, that center is spending the majority of their time chasing the puck instead of setting up plays and scoring goals.

How well do you think Barkov does if he were on worse team?

It IS a team sport. If your wingers and especially your centers aren’t good defensively your defensemen get caved below the dots in their own zone.

 

[rawraw]

Yes, I'm worried about liability on HFBoards. God forbid I'm wrong, and you guys will sue me, lol. All I'm saying is that it's still too early to write him off, though I wasn't impressed last season. He's 20 years old, his career could go any direction.

Who are you comparing him to when you say you weren’t impressed with him last season?
Quoting another poster:
“ At ES he had a more productive season than, among others, Forsberg, Kempe, Kesler in their AHL rookie seasons, almost identical to JT Miller”.

He did this as a 19 year old. So again, who are you comparing him to?

 

[norrisnick]

Who are you comparing him to when you say you weren’t impressed with him last season?
Quoting another poster:
“ At ES he had a more productive season than, among others, Forsberg, Kempe, Kesler in their AHL rookie seasons, almost identical to JT Miller”.

He did this as a 19 year old. So again, who are you comparing him to?

On a hunch... Aatu Raty

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

On a hunch... Aatu Raty

 

[newfy]

Who gives a shit about physicality? Dust off your Rockem' Sockem' tapes...

People who know hockey give a shit about it, especially come playoff time. Not to mention when you dont hvae a bunch of first overall talents to win with, you need ot make it harder on other skilled teams when youre not going to outskill them.

Youre right its not a defensive metric whatsoever however

 

[Euro Twins]

Who gives a shit about physicality? Dust off your Rockem' Sockem' tapes...

Every hockey fan should. It's what the sport was built on. It's what wins playoff games. Go watch figure skating

 

[Gniwder]

Who are you comparing him to when you say you weren’t impressed with him last season?
Quoting another poster:
“ At ES he had a more productive season than, among others, Forsberg, Kempe, Kesler in their AHL rookie seasons, almost identical to JT Miller”.

He did this as a 19 year old. So again, who are you comparing him to?

Yeah, this is where everyone digs around stats for elite players that had a bad first season and compares Kasper to them. Oh he's the next Kesler... etc, etc. I've said it before, those are the exceptions not the rule. Zadina had better stats playing for the same team at a younger age and busted. Plenty of players have scored more at similar age and busted. Not to mention the elite players never even play in the AHL.

People here keep saying he's realgud, yet NOBODY has him penciled in as 2C. That tells me that not many others here were impressed either. 3C for a #8OA pick isn't a reason for celebration.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Yeah, this is where everyone digs around stats for elite players that had a bad first season and compares Kasper to them. Oh he's the next Kesler... etc, etc. I've said it before, those are the exceptions not the rule. Zadina had better stats playing for the same team at a younger age and busted. Plenty of players have scored more at similar age and busted. Not to mention the elite players never even play in the AHL.

People here keep saying he's realgud, yet NOBODY has him penciled in as 2C. That tells me that not many others here were impressed either. 3C for a #8OA pick isn't a reason for celebration.

yzerman's 1st round draft record
1d
1rw
1d
1g
3c
2c
2d
2rw

@Gniwder

 

[Henkka]

Because it's a team sport, a good center on a really shitty team ....

How well do you think Barkov does if he were on worse team?

Barkov at a worse team was putting 1.02 points per game. Like, non playoff-team Florida from 2016-17 to 2018-19 season.

That's what Larkin has been putting at Detroit lately.

 

[rawraw]

Yeah, this is where everyone digs around stats for elite players that had a bad first season and compares Kasper to them. Oh he's the next Kesler... etc, etc. I've said it before, those are the exceptions not the rule. Zadina had better stats playing for the same team at a younger age and busted. Plenty of players have scored more at similar age and busted. Not to mention the elite players never even play in the AHL.

People here keep saying he's realgud, yet NOBODY has him penciled in as 2C. That tells me that not many others here were impressed either. 3C for a #8OA pick isn't a reason for celebration.

Most poster here are projecting him to be a 45-55 point centre, that’s not a 3c, those are 2c numbers. So most posters seem to be pencilling him to be a 2c with those numbers, for whatever that’s worth.

You still didn’t answer the question. Now you’re saying the players I mentioned (Forsberg, Kempe, Kesler, JT Miller) had bad seasons as well with those numbers. Again, compared to which players did they have bad seasons at that age? You say that these are exceptions not the rule. So what is the rule?

 

[dekelikekocur]

Barkov at a worse team was putting 1.02 points per game. Like, non playoff-team Florida from 2016-17 to 2018-19 season.

That's what Larkin has been putting at Detroit lately.

The Panthers 2016/17 roster is on par with where Det's roster was this last season and Barkov put up 52 in 61 games.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yeah, this is where everyone digs around stats for elite players that had a bad first season and compares Kasper to them. Oh he's the next Kesler... etc, etc. I've said it before, those are the exceptions not the rule. Zadina had better stats playing for the same team at a younger age and busted.

Imagine dismissing actual comparables in terms of position, style of play, size etc. in favor of comparing Kasper to Zadina.

 

[Gniwder]

Most poster here are projecting him to be a 45-55 point centre, that’s not a 3c, those are 2c numbers. So most posters seem to be pencilling him to be a 2c with those numbers, for whatever that’s worth.

You still didn’t answer the question. Now you’re saying the players I mentioned (Forsberg, Kempe, Kesler, JT Miller) had bad seasons as well with those numbers. Again, compared to which players did they have bad seasons at that age? You say that these are exceptions not the rule. So what is the rule?

Dude, elite layers don't even play in the AHL. Bedard put up better numbers in the NHL in his rookie season. It's not that hard to find a whole bunch of players that did better.

Generally speaking, when kids put up big numbers in the AHL they get promoted, unless your name happens to be Berggren.

Also, a 55 pt 2C doesn't win a cup. Look at Florida's roster.

Imagine dismissing actual comparables in terms of position, style of play, size etc. in favor of comparing Kasper to Zadina.

You know Zadina weighs more than Kasper? LOL. Plus the comparable is that they both play low IQ hockey. People here get so excited just because Kasper likes to cross check players in the back. When he starts throwing open ice checks then I'll be impressed.

Anyways, the whole point was that 1/2 point per game in the AHL doesn't mean squat. It doesn't mean he'll bust either, just a meh season. And if you look at game logs, he didn't finish the season as strong as you think.

 

[jkutswings]

Dude, elite layers don't even play in the AHL.

Assuming you meant elite players:

1) Elite is a crazy expectation for #8 overall.
2) You must not think that Leon Draisaitl, Brad Marchand, William Nylander, and Pekka Rinne are elite, since each of them played at least a stint in the AHL.

Bedard put up better numbers in the NHL in his rookie season. It's not that hard to find a whole bunch of players that did better.

Oh, now I get it. Sure, when you compare Kasper to #1 overall that's the most hyped prospect since McDavid... Yeah, he's clearly a disappointment.

Also, a 55 pt 2C doesn't win a cup. Look at Florida's roster.

Ahh, the exquisite sample size of n=1. But I can play that game as well:

Exactly one year prior, Marchessault won the Conn Smythe with 57 regular season points. Huge difference in production there.

You know Zadina weighs more than Kasper? LOL. Plus the comparable is that they both play low IQ hockey. People here get so excited just because Kasper likes to cross check players in the back. When he starts throwing open ice checks then I'll be impressed.

Anyways, the whole point was that 1/2 point per game in the AHL doesn't mean squat. It doesn't mean he'll bust either, just a meh season. And if you look at game logs, he didn't finish the season as strong as you think.

Just say you don't like Kasper and be entitled to your opinion, rather than add a bunch of awful arguments that make you look silly.

 

[norrisnick]

Dude, elite layers don't even play in the AHL. Bedard put up better numbers in the NHL in his rookie season. It's not that hard to find a whole bunch of players that did better.

Generally speaking, when kids put up big numbers in the AHL they get promoted, unless your name happens to be Berggren.

Also, a 55 pt 2C doesn't win a cup. Look at Florida's roster.

Who is claiming Kasper is elite? Who is expecting an elite player picked outside of the top 3?

Florida's 2C had 41 points. Reinhart was stapled to Barkov.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

Dude, elite layers don't even play in the AHL. Bedard put up better numbers in the NHL in his rookie season. It's not that hard to find a whole bunch of players that did better.

Kucherov, Rantanen, Pastrnak, Miller, Nylander, Forsberg are all top scoring forwards that played in the AHL. Funny all of which were not drafted out of Canadian Juniors like a certain Red Wings bust you compare Kasper to

Generally speaking, when kids put up big numbers in the AHL they get promoted, unless your name happens to be Berggren.

Generally, but the context is age. Kasper was 19 this season in the AHL with already two years of pro hockey under his belt. He's needed that early, yet gradual pro experience to maximize the development of his skillset

Also, a 55 pt 2C doesn't win a cup. Look at Florida's roster.

Sam Bennett played this season at a pro-rated 49 points per 82.

You know Zadina weighs more than Kasper? LOL. Plus the comparable is that they both play low IQ hockey. People here get so excited just because Kasper likes to cross check players in the back. When he starts throwing open ice checks then I'll be impressed.

Kasper does not play low IQ hockey. In fact he utilizes body positioning, hands and vision off the boards better than Zadina could ever dream of. Not to mention he doesn't get pushed around along the boards despite weighing less. As well, he blows Zadina away in offensive zone entries and overall defensive play whilst playing a more important position

Anyways, the whole point was that 1/2 point per game in the AHL doesn't mean squat. It doesn't mean he'll bust either, just a meh season. And if you look at game logs, he didn't finish the season as strong as you think.

Again, the context is age and as well his offseason injury recovery. You can say that 0.5 PPG AHL at 19 years old doesn't mean squat, but expect hard backlash from those who are tough but fair on Kasper and watch him play many games a year

He doesn't play a boxscore kind of game but even that will show you he generates shots at a high rate. 2.15 SOG/G as a 19 year old in the AHL is an excellent indicator of his offensive puck prowess suggesting a continued upward trajectory of his perceived "limited offensive upside"

Kasper showed clearly as the season got older and the game intensity heightened in the playoffs that he can grab the game by the balls and do what he wants. Not many 19 year olds have that kind of impact (junior players aren't even playing in that league yet)

So no, the boxscore is not your telltale and no he's not comparable to Zadina at all...

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Kucherov, Rantanen, Pastrnak, Miller, Nylander, Forsberg are all top scoring forwards that played in the AHL. Funny all of which were not drafted out of Canadian Juniors like a certain Red Wings bust you compare Kasper to

Generally, but the context is age. Kasper was 19 this season in the AHL with already two years of pro hockey under his belt. He's needed that early, yet gradual pro experience to maximize the development of his skillset

Sam Bennett played this season at a pro-rated 49 points per 82.

Kasper does not play low IQ hockey. In fact he utilizes body positioning, hands and vision off the boards better than Zadina could ever dream of. Not to mention he doesn't get pushed around along the boards despite weighing less. As well, he blows Zadina away in offensive zone entries and overall defensive play whilst playing a more important position

Again, the context is age and as well his offseason injury recovery. You can say that 0.5 PPG AHL at 19 years old doesn't mean squat, but expect hard backlash from those who are tough but fair on Kasper and watch him play many games a year

He doesn't play a boxscore kind of game but even that will show you he generates shots at a high rate. 2.15 SOG/G as a 19 year old in the AHL is an excellent indicator of his offensive puck prowess suggesting a continued upward trajectory of his perceived "limited offensive upside"

Kasper showed clearly as the season got older and the game intensity heightened in the playoffs that he can grab the game by the balls and do what he wants. Not many 19 year olds have that kind of impact (junior players aren't even playing in that league yet)

So no, the boxscore is not your telltale and no he's not comparable to Zadina at all...

We don't really know who weighs less because they don't update their weight regularly and although it helps weight isn't an indicator of strength or toughness. Wayne Simmonds was 6'2" 180lb string bean but was very physical and tough

 

[Our Lady Peace]

We don't really know who weighs less because they don't update their weight regularly and although it helps weight isn't an indicator of strength or toughness. Wayne Simmonds was 6'2" 180lb string bean but was very physical and tough

Fair enough, I just quoted the poster as he felt that was necessary point out in his assertion

 

[Pavels Dog]

You know Zadina weighs more than Kasper? LOL. Plus the comparable is that they both play low IQ hockey. People here get so excited just because Kasper likes to cross check players in the back. When he starts throwing open ice checks then I'll be impressed.

Open ice checks? Even despite the asinine goalposts you are moving around I guess I'll play along:







Now personally I think it's more valuable to look at position, style of play, height etc. than just weight, but I guess you're right. Zadina and Kasper are 1:1 comparables. Nevermind the fact that Zadina is a scoring winger who was a team worst -17 in his Griffins rookie year, and Kasper is a two-way center who was a team-best +9 in his rookie year. Probably not relevant.