Prospect Info: 2022 8OA, Marco Kasper

[saska sault]

In other news Jeff Luchanko, 13OA pick in 24 draft, has officially made the Philly roster our of camp because he played his way into it.

Philly is a not a franchise or culture you want to replicate IMO.

Because it exposes the "play your way into a job" thing as the total BS it really is. You can't take someone's job, and the Wings are not icing the best possible team.

But we don't even know what the roster will be Thursday yet, never mind in a month.

 

[SirKillalot]

Does a guy like Kasper make us better and gets us closer to the playoffs? Yes it does. I want the team to win, I’m tired of losing, I’m not okay with not deploying the best roster possible simply for “reasons” the management makes up in their head. I’m frustrated, and you should be too. The few guys here that are frustrated and speak their mind get clowned on apparently. I just don’t see us taking the necessary steps we should be taking in our rebuild and it frustrates me.

The issue isn't whether we ice the best roster or not, the issue is whether players like Kasper and others need more time in the AHL or not instead of playing scrub minutes in the NHL if not a top six/top nine role is available.

Marco Kasper got a whooping 35 points in 71 AHL matches last season, unless he gets put in a top six scoring role with really good teammates he's not gonna lit the NHL on fire. Could he play 4th line, sure, should he play 3rd line absolutely, but the spot isn't really available unless we lose some other. Would it be better he play top line in Grand Rapids and work on being "the guy"? Yes. Until we have a bit more wiggle room yes. Or until we have space where he can alternate between 4th, 3rd and maybe 2nd line duties in the NHL.

Now I think he plays a responsible game and would like to see him with Detroit, just don't want him scrubbed in on the 4th line just for the sake of keeping him on the team. Then it must be better line duties for him either available or made available through rotation.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

The issue isn't whether we ice the best roster or not, the issue is whether players like Kasper and others need more time in the AHL or not instead of playing scrub minutes in the NHL if not a top six/top nine role is available.

Marco Kasper got a whooping 35 points in 71 AHL matches last season, unless he gets put in a top six scoring role with really good teammates he's not gonna lit the NHL on fire. Could he play 4th line, sure, should he play 3rd line absolutely, but the spot isn't really available unless we lose some other. Would it be better he play top line in Grand Rapids and work on being "the guy"? Yes. Until we have a bit more wiggle room yes. Or until we have space where he can alternate between 4th, 3rd and maybe 2nd line duties in the NHL.

Now I think he plays a responsible game and would like to see him with Detroit, just don't want him scrubbed in on the 4th line just for the sake of keeping him on the team. Then it must be better line duties for him either available or made available through rotation.

So then the convo just returns to it being yzermans fault there’s such a logjam we can’t find a spot for him on the 3rd line. Everyway you look at it it’s been mismanagement and I don’t know why we as fans can’t just admit that.

 

[izlez]

Look at the tigers, the youth influx was why they made thee playoffs.

I'm not a big baseball guy. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the vast majority of those kids spend a good amount of time in the minors this year?

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I'm not a big baseball guy. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the vast majority of those kids spend a good amount of time in the minors this year?

Yeah and it’s clear that the team might have been better from the get go instead of later in the season if some of them were in the MLB.

 

[jaster]

So then the convo just returns to it being yzermans fault there’s such a logjam we can’t find a spot for him on the 3rd line. Everyway you look at it it’s been mismanagement and I don’t know why we as fans can’t just admit that.

I've read all the words you've posted lately. I understand that you're frustrated. I just can't relate to the frustration.

I apologize for not being frustrated.

 

[Frk It]

Because it exposes the "play your way into a job" thing as the total BS it really is. You can't take someone's job, and the Wings are not icing the best possible team.

Kasper didn’t have the type of year in the AHL last year where a good pre season should guarantee him a roster spot. Sorry…

And if he made the team but on the bottom line, people would just complain about that too.

Larkin, DeBrincat, Raymond, Kane, Tarasenko, Compher, Rasmussen, Copp. Kasper isn’t getting more minutes than any of those guys. So the decision was do you want him to be one of the 3-4 lowest minute forwards in Detroit or one of the 3-4 highest minute forwards in Grand Rapids.

They made the right call. Let him put together a dominant season in the AHL and get called up with some confidence later when needed.

 

[izlez]

Yeah and it’s clear that the team might have been better from the get go instead of later in the season if some of them were in the MLB.

It's equally as clear that the team might have been worse by not letting the kids develop in the minors.

 

[lilidk]

It’s funny how complacent so many wings fans have gotten. I’m tired of losing. We are going on 9 years without playoffs if we miss this year, we missed the playoffs last year off the back of a monumental choke down the stretch. We are an original 6 franchise, we deserve better. Does a guy like edvinsson playing all last year get us in the playoffs? Yeah I think it does. Does a guy like Kasper make us better and gets us closer to the playoffs? Yes it does. I want the team to win, I’m tired of losing, I’m not okay with not deploying the best roster possible simply for “reasons” the management makes up in their head. I’m frustrated, and you should be too. The few guys here that are frustrated and speak their mind get clowned on apparently. I just don’t see us taking the necessary steps we should be taking in our rebuild and it frustrates me. Guys like Johansson shouldn’t only be on the team because they are waiver exempt, that’s not how you integrate young players to help you win. Not in todays NHL. Too much youth can be a problem but equally not enough is as well. The only rookie to make our roster the past 2 seasons? Johansson, and that was because we literally had to. Look at the tigers, the youth influx was why they made thee playoffs. It’s just not good enough from the FO man I’m sorry. It’s frustrating.

I will not be upset if we have another not so good season as long as kids are improving. Other than that I agree with everything you said

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I've read all the words you've posted lately. I understand that you're frustrated. I just can't relate to the frustration.

I apologize for not being frustrated.

Not sure why you aren’t, we are probably going to regress from last year and we don’t even have the benefit of influx of young guys getting experience to make it worthwhile.

 

[Frk It]

Does a guy like Kasper make us better and gets us closer to the playoffs? Yes it does.

How much of an impact do you think he is going to have in a 9-12 minute role over a guy like Fischer?

Negligible at best, I'd say.

 

[jaster]

Not sure why you aren’t, we are probably going to regress from last year and we don’t even have the benefit of influx of young guys getting experience to make it worthwhile.

I'll wait and see how things play out in terms of regression this year, I'm not sure how probable that is as of today. But more importantly, I don't think there's any prospects who are ready to be on the roster right now anyway, except for maybe Kasper. But the season hasn't even started yet, and it's a long one. Nothing to suggest Kasper doesn't end up getting 40, 50, 60 games this season. It's just too soon to be frustrated about this season for me.

 

[izlez]

How much of an impact do you think he is going to have in a 9-12 minute role over a guy like Fischer?

Negligible at best, I'd say.

I'll also point out that guys like Fischer and Motte stood out as some our best players in preseason.

Don't think that anyone cares about giving guys like that an honest evaluation though

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I'll wait and see how things play out in terms of regression this year, I'm not sure how probable that is as of today. But more importantly, I don't think there's any prospects who are ready to be on the roster right now anyway, except for maybe Kasper. But the season hasn't even started yet, and it's a long one. Nothing to suggest Kasper doesn't end up getting 40, 50, 60 games this season. It's just too soon to be frustrated about this season for me.

I feel like if it was just this decision in a vacuum I wouldn’t be so upset, but to me it’s been a trend of just very questionable decisions the past few years that I’m super frustrated by. It’s not the end of the world but I do think it’s a mistake. I also doubt kasper gets that many games if he doesn’t start with us, that’s just not how yzerman rolls, he usually keeps prospects in one league to focus rather than bringing them up and down.

 

[J15]

Yzerman has opened a slot for Edvinsson, moving Walman away.

Yzerman waived Holl, instead of Johansson as signal of future.

Yzerman did make a spot for Berggren too (letting Sprong walk), who as well shined as Kasper at pre-season.

When clearly some moves are going toward the youth and one aren't, why should anyone think that everything is shit and the sky is gonna fall.

Just being ipatient, when you have to be patient, and reacting mostly meaningless technical roster moves, is just just....

...fans not being patient. Management is operating like many other teams are. You have to protect some assets you keep up, and ELC kids are sent down at first. Because other ways you could lose the player you waive, if you keep the kid up. And what happens when injuries will hit, when the depth player was already lost in waivers and there's no kid to promote up, because the kid is already up?

I am reluctant to give Yzerman credit for his attempts to cleanup the messes he made. Last year is a perfect example - there was absolutely no reason Edvinsson shouldn't have played a full NHL season. There is no reason a team at the stage the Red Wings were at last year, did not have a single rookie on their full time roster. The team would be in a much better spot today if Edvinsson had a full NHL season under his belt. The reason he wasn't on the roster was because Yzerman signed every depth defenceman he could find to bad, unmovable contracts and their only option was to use Edvinsson's waiver eligibility to bail themselves out of the mess despite it coming at the expense of his development as a prospect and the overall quality of the on ice team. Now we're supposed to give him credit for paying a 2nd round pick to move Walman and having to waive Holl a year into a 3 year contract?

I agree that there are times where it makes sense to use the flexibility of ELCs to your advantage. But it just feels glaringly obvious that we are using that flexibility to compensate for other bad roster decisions the front office has made. We're paying for Yzerman's mistakes with our prospect development and it's infuriating considering where we are in the rebuild.

 

[jaster]

I'll also point out that guys like Fischer and Motte stood out as some our best players in preseason.

Don't think that anyone cares about giving guys like that an honest evaluation though

I recall the day of the first preseason game, someone here ripped into Motte pretty hard for being worthless or whatever. Then I go to the Chicago game that night and watch him score 1 minute into the game lol (set up by Watson). I meant to go back to that post but didn't. I don't know if that poster ever gave Motte any credit, but I can take a guess

I feel like if it was just this decision in a vacuum I wouldn’t be so upset, but to me it’s been a trend of just very questionable decisions the past few years that I’m super frustrated by. It’s not the end of the world but I do think it’s a mistake. I also doubt kasper gets that many games if he doesn’t start with us, that’s just not how yzerman rolls, he usually keeps prospects in one league to focus rather than bringing them up and down.

I don't expect Kasper to go up and down. If he gets 40-60 games, I think it's because he came up within the first few months and stuck the rest of the way.

 

[Gniwder]

The issue isn't whether we ice the best roster or not, the issue is whether players like Kasper and others need more time in the AHL or not instead of playing scrub minutes in the NHL if not a top six/top nine role is available.

Marco Kasper got a whooping 35 points in 71 AHL matches last season, unless he gets put in a top six scoring role with really good teammates he's not gonna lit the NHL on fire. Could he play 4th line, sure, should he play 3rd line absolutely, but the spot isn't really available unless we lose some other. Would it be better he play top line in Grand Rapids and work on being "the guy"? Yes. Until we have a bit more wiggle room yes. Or until we have space where he can alternate between 4th, 3rd and maybe 2nd line duties in the NHL.

Now I think he plays a responsible game and would like to see him with Detroit, just don't want him scrubbed in on the 4th line just for the sake of keeping him on the team. Then it must be better line duties for him either available or made available through rotation.

Don't try to use logic here, it doesn't work.

The best part is that preseason doesn't matter when the team loses due to lack of effort, but it matters when Kasper out hustles the opponents who were also showing a lack of effort.

Speaking of which, the NHL really needs to fix the preseason schedule. Just make it 5 games with a day rest between each game. Make the roster size smaller so that we're not watching AHL scrimmages.

 

[Frk It]

I am reluctant to give Yzerman credit for his attempts to cleanup the messes he made. Last year is a perfect example - there was absolutely no reason Edvinsson shouldn't have played a full NHL season. There is no reason a team at the stage the Red Wings were at last year, did not have a single rookie on their full time roster. The team would be in a much better spot today if Edvinsson had a full NHL season under his belt. The reason he wasn't on the roster was because Yzerman signed every depth defenceman he could find to bad, unmovable contracts and their only option was to use Edvinsson's waiver eligibility to bail themselves out of the mess despite it coming at the expense of his development as a prospect and the overall quality of the on ice team. Now we're supposed to give him credit for paying a 2nd round pick to move Walman and having to waive Holl a year into a 3 year contract?

I agree that there are times where it makes sense to use the flexibility of ELCs to your advantage. But it just feels glaringly obvious that we are using that flexibility to compensate for other bad roster decisions the front office has made. We're paying for Yzerman's mistakes with our prospect development and it's infuriating considering where we are in the rebuild.

I don't view this and the Edvinsson situation as the same. I have a lot of time for people being pissed about Edvinsson not getting more NHL games last year. I don't think think this is a similar situation here with Kasper.

Fact is our top 6 and 2/3 of our 3rd line is set. Berggren pretty much has to be on the team due to waivers. There just always was going to be a limited opportunity for Kasper. Even despite the additions of Motte and Watson. And I don't feel like the Front Office probably views that as conflicting, because they probably don't want Kasper playing the very minimal roles/minutes those two will play.

I think people need to ask themselves for Kasper's long term development... would you rather have him playing 9-12 minutes in Detroit or 18-20 minutes in GR? To me, that's a no-brainer. And when I look at it that way, it's hard for me to get mad at this.

The issue isn't whether we ice the best roster or not, the issue is whether players like Kasper and others need more time in the AHL or not instead of playing scrub minutes in the NHL if not a top six/top nine role is available.

Marco Kasper got a whooping 35 points in 71 AHL matches last season, unless he gets put in a top six scoring role with really good teammates he's not gonna lit the NHL on fire. Could he play 4th line, sure, should he play 3rd line absolutely, but the spot isn't really available unless we lose some other. Would it be better he play top line in Grand Rapids and work on being "the guy"? Yes. Until we have a bit more wiggle room yes. Or until we have space where he can alternate between 4th, 3rd and maybe 2nd line duties in the NHL.

Now I think he plays a responsible game and would like to see him with Detroit, just don't want him scrubbed in on the 4th line just for the sake of keeping him on the team. Then it must be better line duties for him either available or made available through rotation.

This.

 

[minimal]

I'm pretty sympathetic to the posters upset about this. Yes, Marco could be up not even by the end of the week, but there's some real anxiety that this could be another Ed situation and we see this drag on longer than this has any right to. This team/org hasn't been proactive when issues in the lineup occur and past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. I know the lack of injuries is used as an argument for Edvinsson last year, but there were plenty of stretches when play on the backend was subpar, certain players were clearly responsible, and I think he could have come in and made the situation much better.

 

[Gniwder]

I am reluctant to give Yzerman credit for his attempts to cleanup the messes he made. Last year is a perfect example - there was absolutely no reason Edvinsson shouldn't have played a full NHL season. There is no reason a team at the stage the Red Wings were at last year, did not have a single rookie on their full time roster. The team would be in a much better spot today if Edvinsson had a full NHL season under his belt. The reason he wasn't on the roster was because Yzerman signed every depth defenceman he could find to bad, unmovable contracts and their only option was to use Edvinsson's waiver eligibility to bail themselves out of the mess despite it coming at the expense of his development as a prospect and the overall quality of the on ice team. Now we're supposed to give him credit for paying a 2nd round pick to move Walman and having to waive Holl a year into a 3 year contract?

I agree that there are times where it makes sense to use the flexibility of ELCs to your advantage. But it just feels glaringly obvious that we are using that flexibility to compensate for other bad roster decisions the front office has made. We're paying for Yzerman's mistakes with our prospect development and it's infuriating considering where we are in the rebuild.

Ed had shoulder surgery in May and was projected to be out 4 - 6 months. He should not have started the season on the roster, but he should have been called up after dominating the AHL in November when he got back up to speed.

 

[sepster]

I am reluctant to give Yzerman credit for his attempts to cleanup the messes he made. Last year is a perfect example - there was absolutely no reason Edvinsson shouldn't have played a full NHL season. There is no reason a team at the stage the Red Wings were at last year, did not have a single rookie on their full time roster. The team would be in a much better spot today if Edvinsson had a full NHL season under his belt. The reason he wasn't on the roster was because Yzerman signed every depth defenceman he could find to bad, unmovable contracts and their only option was to use Edvinsson's waiver eligibility to bail themselves out of the mess despite it coming at the expense of his development as a prospect and the overall quality of the on ice team. Now we're supposed to give him credit for paying a 2nd round pick to move Walman and having to waive Holl a year into a 3 year contract?

I agree that there are times where it makes sense to use the flexibility of ELCs to your advantage. But it just feels glaringly obvious that we are using that flexibility to compensate for other bad roster decisions the front office has made. We're paying for Yzerman's mistakes with our prospect development and it's infuriating considering where we are in the rebuild.

As much as people are baffled by the Kasper decision now, I am equally baffled by the above take on Edvinsson. He was coming off shoulder surgery and didn't have an overwhelming camp/preseason last year. Sending him down WAS the correct move. He made steady progress to becoming THE man in GR, played OK he a short stint with Detroit after the new year, then played great when he came back up to end the year. The assumption that Edvinsson would have developed the same while playing 3rd pair minutes in the NHL to start the year is tenuous, at best. The development process he went through last season was handled about as well as one would hope.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Now we're supposed to give him credit for paying a 2nd round pick to move Walman and having to waive Holl a year into a 3 year contract?

i mean, you guys all hate his 2nd round picks anyway, so what does it matter?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Not sure why people are surprised given what they did with Berggren all last season. They will 100% take advantage of waiver eligibility before "Losing" players for nothing.

Realistically, Berggren is on the team this year to try to drive up some trade value and then move him. He has no long-term potential with the team.

 

[stillwater]

I've read all the words you've posted lately. I understand that you're frustrated. I just can't relate to the frustration.

I apologize for not being frustrated.

Same, sorry, not frustrated.

 

[SantosHalper]

Why is this still a surprise? This is how they operate, last year it was Ed, this season it's Kasper, next year it will be Danielson and year after that ASP & MBN. But the bright side is that within 2 years all the current top prospects will be in the lineup. Injuries will happen through out the season, Kasper will not spent the whole year in GR.