Prospect Info: 2022 31st Overall Pick | LW Isaac Howard

[JTBF81]

Absolving BriseBois of all blame is foolish. He's let a pretty high end asset burn value and will have to get below market value return if Howard isn't signed, which it looks like he won't be.

Now if BriseBois can somehow get an Ohgren or Yurov level asset back in a trade, then I'll sing his praises. Until then, I'm going to criticize him for not doing his job well enough.

No, it's not JBB's fault that he looked to improve the team by adding actual NHl talent at the deadline while choosing not to move a top 3 prospect in the organization. Howard knew how Tampa runs things with their prospects, and he felt he deserved special treatment. Sorry, h3s.not that good, proven, nor special to jump the line. JBB wasn't under any pressure, nor likely felt he needed to move him at the deadline, as I'm sure he still felt confident that he would sign. If trading Howard is the plan, so be it. Regardless of whether JBB gets another Drouin for Serg return or perceived "lesser" value for him, he'll improve the team and likely not care that a 20 year old with 0 NHL games wasn't given everything he wanted.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I think it was a reasonable expectation that Howard wouldn’t be demanding an NHL roster spot.

Many posters in this thread have insinuated that based on Howard's personality, you could make the case that Howard was going to want an NHL roster spot right away. Fair or not, BriseBois should have been able to get a better read on that.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

No, it's not JBB's fault that he looked to improve the team by adding actual NHl talent at the deadline while choosing not to move a top 3 prospect in the organization. Howard knew how Tampa runs things with their prospects, and he felt he deserved special treatment. Sorry, h3s.not that good, proven, nor special to jump the line. JBB wasn't under any pressure, nor likely felt he needed to move him at the deadline, as I'm sure he still felt confident that he would sign. If trading Howard is the plan, so be it. Regardless of whether JBB gets another Drouin for Serg return or perceived "lesser" value for him, he'll improve the team and likely not care that a 20 year old with 0 NHL games wasn't given everything he wanted.

Again, you're acting like BriseBois is some sort of perfect miracle worker, which couldn't be further from the true.

 

[JTBF81]

Again, you're acting like BriseBois is some sort of perfect miracle worker, which couldn't be further from the true.

No, you're just assuming that's my position because I don't see him, nor the organization, as having done anything wrong with this situation. Howard sounds like someone who wouldn't be a good fit based on this attitude or position, so if that's the case, it's best to move him at the draft. There will be teams interested that will bend to his every want, but that was never going to be Tampa. Howard can enjoy Chicago or wherever he gets traded, if that does indeed occur, but if the reports and situation are indeed what is transpiring in this instance, this isn't on JBB, no matter how much sone posters on here so badly hoped it was.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

No, you're just assuming that's my position because I don't see him, nor the organization, as having done anything wrong with this situation. Howard sounds like someone who wouldn't be a good fit based on this attitude or position, so if that's the case, it's best to move him at the draft. There will be teams interested that will bend to his every want, but that was never going to be Tampa. Howard can enjoy Chicago or wherever he gets traded, if that does indeed occur, but if the reports and speculation are indeed what is transpiring in this instance, this isn't on JBB, no matter how much sone posters on here so badly hoped it was.

Allowing a high end asset to lose value & then likely being forced to sell at below market value is on BriseBois.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Many posters in this thread have insinuated that based on Howard's personality, you could make the case that Howard was going to want an NHL roster spot right away. Fair or not, BriseBois should have been able to get a better read on that.

Since the 31st pick became a 1st rounder here's the list of players selected in that spot.

17 Klim Kostin
18 Alexander Alexeev
19 Ryan Johnson
20 Ozzy Weisblatt
21 Logan Mallioux
22 Isaac Howard
23 Mikhael Gulyayev
24 Ben Danford

Sure it's early for most of those but there's no one on that list that screams I can skip the minor leagues and go right to the pro's. He had a crap D+1, good D+2 and very good D+3 but as a whole not enough to jump the normal development path that most picks take. If he was a top 10 pick then he could maybe play that card but he wasn't and isn't regarded as that type of talent, Elite. He's a good talent at best, 2nd liner with 30 goal potential. He doesn't get to dictate his development path. If he wants to do that he can by killing it in camp and preseason or in Syracuse to start the year like Kucherov did.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Since the 31st pick became a 1st rounder here's the list of players selected in that spot.

17 Klim Kostin
18 Alexander Alexeev
19 Ryan Johnson
20 Ozzy Weisblatt
21 Logan Mallioux
22 Isaac Howard
23 Mikhael Gulyayev
24 Ben Danford

Sure it's early for most of those but there's no one on that list that screams I can skip the minor leagues and go right to the pro's. He had a crap D+1, good D+2 and very good D+3 but as a whole not enough to jump the normal development path that most picks take. If he was a top 10 pick then he could maybe play that card but he wasn't and isn't regarded as that type of talent, Elite. He's a good talent at best, 2nd liner with 30 goal potential. He doesn't get to dictate his development path. If he wants to do that he can by killing it in camp and preseason or in Syracuse to start the year like Kucherov did.

Then BriseBois should have traded his rights at the deadline. If he assumed Howard wasn't going to try to leverage the situation in his favor, then he wasn't prepared enough for every scenario possible

 

[RSchmitz PhD]

Many posters in this thread have insinuated that based on Howard's personality, you could make the case that Howard was going to want an NHL roster spot right away. Fair or not, BriseBois should have been able to get a better read on that.

That’s a slippery slope thinking that you have to psychoanalyze the demeanor of your prospects and trade them off. Being able to still trade him and get value I think absolves JBB of any perceived mistake he may have made with respect to prudence

 

[Hockeyville USA]

That’s a slippery slope thinking that you have to psychoanalyze the demeanor of your prospects and trade them off. Being able to still trade him and get value I think absolves JBB of any perceived mistake he may have made with respect to prudence

If he gets good value, then I'll give BriseBois credit. I just don't like not being able to get a top prospect signed & letting an asset burn out in value as a result of impasse becoming public

 

[RSchmitz PhD]

If he gets good value, then I'll give BriseBois credit. I just don't like not being able to get a top prospect signed & letting an asset burn out in value as a result of impasse becoming public

Howard was cocky but there were no red flags, at least any known to the public. Without the benefit of hindsight, do you really think it’s wise to avoid young flashy kids with confidence because there is a chance they may be toxic?

I think your point, that JBB should be able to read these kids, is just unreasonable. Most of these young guys don’t even know what they want. Maybe he gets a little bit of blame for not being a good judge of character but it’s not easy to get right

 

[DFC]

I would do this. Getting a 10th overall pick feels like a best case scenario.

I can't see us getting a pick that high, really. I think 20ish is very best case, but more realistically we are looking at low first round or two 2nds. Something like that.

 

[DFC]

If that's the case... Howard can kick rocks. Trade his ass and get something valuable in return.

So what's Howard's motivation here? Trying to avoid the AHL next season? Is that the only thing he's getting from refusing to sign? Or is he determined to become a UFA at 22 and get a real contract? I'm really not familiar with how this would even work if he just refuses an NHL deal.

 

[JTBF81]

Allowing a high end asset to lose value & then likely being forced to sell at below market value is on BriseBois.

I'm confident JBB will get good value for him, as.there will still likely be multiple teams interested. In reality, he was never that high end, as he wasn't even a top 50 prospect, so how much value he actually has/what JBB could ever realistically get was questionable. It wasn't on JBB to constantly check in on him. JBB had far bigger things to worry about approaching the deadline. In the end, Howard sounds more and more like an entitled whiner, and that's not the type of player that Tampa usually puts up with. If anything is on JBB, perhaps he and his team should have done better 3 years ago and drafted differently, but that's over now. The current situation isn't on him or the team, no matter how badly you and others clearly want it to be. It's funny how you and others on here started with, "I can't believe JBB wouldn't give him games/burn the elc, horrible move", to now that it's being reported that perhaps that's exactly what JBB was going to do, that now it's, "I can't believe JBB couldn't see the future and prepare for every possible eventuality" because Howard's throwing a fit.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I'm confident JBB will get good value for him, as.there will still likely be multiple teams interested. In reality, he was never that high end, as he wasn't even a top 50 prospect, so how much value he actually has/what JBB could ever realistically get was questionable. It wasn't on JBB to constantly check in on him. JBB had far bigger things to worry about approaching the deadline. In the end, Howard sounds more and more like an entitled whiner, and that's not the type of player that Tampa usually puts up with. If anything is on JBB, perhaps he and his team should have done better 3 years ago and drafted differently, but that's over now. The current situation isn't on him or the team, no matter how badly you and others clearly want it to be. It's funny how you and others on here started with, "I can't believe JBB wouldn't give him games/burn the elc, horrible move", to now that it's being reported that perhaps that's exactly what JBB was going to do, that now it's, "I can't believe JBB couldn't see the future and prepare for every possible eventuality" because Howard's throwing a fit.

The initial problem was not having cap space available to get him signed right away after State was eliminated. Deep down, I think he gets signed if there wasn't a snag at that point. Pure speculation, but that could have offended Howard because he wasn't getting the standard ELC right away like most other high end NCAA players. Like I said in a post yesterday or the day before, these high end NTDP to NCAA guys have a significant amount of entitlement.

Again, IF Howard told the management he never wanted to play a second in Syracuse, then he's an entitled f*** & you're correct in that he's not a good fit for the organization. IF he just didn't want to sign an ATO to end the season (which was rumored), then I totally get Howard's position. We've gotten conflicting reports, so until BriseBois comes out and tells everything that went on, & Howard comes out and tells everything that went on from his perspective, we don't quite know what was offered/leveraged.

I'll admit my bias, I wanted Howard to get signed right away and be given a shot to end the regular season, so I felt that BriseBois not allotting the proper amount of cap space to sign a top prospect as soon as his season was over was poor cap management. If your position is that Howard isn't worth being catered to, then he should have been traded in the past, or as you said, we should have drafted someone else. (Hutson or Casey would look very good in Tampa, and those were realistic options at 31)

Ultimately, Howard f***ed himself over by going to Minnesota Duluth for his freshman year when he was smart enough to know UMD was a HORRIBLE roster/development fit for both parties, considering Sandelin & his systems don't favor pure skill underclassmen. Howard lost/wasted a year of development in 2022-23 & that elongated the process of eventually needing to get him signed.

He'll get traded & I'll have to get over myself with whatever results, but I'm still going to place some blame on BriseBois/the organization for certain missteps that were avoidable.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Then BriseBois should have traded his rights at the deadline. If he assumed Howard wasn't going to try to leverage the situation in his favor, then he wasn't prepared enough for every scenario possible

Why should he have been prepared for the kid saying he wasn't going to play in the AHL next year? Tell me which other player has said and done such a thing? The Panthers were able to sign Samasovich, who was drafted 24th the year before Howard, to an ATO to play in Charlotte and then he played there most of the next season. Not every NCAA pick, 1st round included, gets to burn an ELC year nor get to skip out on the AHL the next season. What Howard is asking is unprecedented. What he accomplished on the ice wasn't so its not like he did something special and can get special treatment.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Why should he have been prepared for the kid saying he wasn't going to play in the AHL next year? Tell me which other player has said and done such a thing? The Panthers were able to sign Samoskevich, who was drafted 24th the year before Howard, to an ATO to play in Charlotte and then he played there most of the next season. Not every NCAA pick, 1st round included, gets to burn an ELC year nor get to skip out on the AHL the next season. What Howard is asking is unprecedented. What he accomplished on the ice wasn't so its not like he did something special and can get special treatment.

Do we know this for a fact? Did Howard, his advisor, or BriseBois explicitly state that this was the request?

 

[JTBF81]

I can't see us getting a pick that high, really. I think 20ish is very best case, but more realistically we are looking at low first round or two 2nds. Something like that.

I'd be good with a solid, but not blue chip prospect on defense/young NHL.dman+2nd for Howard. Depending on the quality of the player coming back, maybe Tampa adds a mid pick as well.

 

[DFC]

I'd be good with a solid, but not blue chip prospect on defense/young NHL.dman+2nd for Howard. Depending on the quality of the player coming back, maybe Tampa adds a mid pick as well.

I think you're asking way too much. Solid young defensemen tend to have higher values on their own than Howard. Maybe a fringe D + a 2nd.

I think a lot of us are really, really overrating this prospect. He hasn't proven much of anything. We are dealing pure potential, and there's like a 50-50 shot he becomes nothing at all.

 

[JTBF81]

Howard said there were "philosophical differences" between his side and how Tampa approached things, and that it's just a business decision. Now true, we don't have any official confirmation of anything, but if JBB was going to offer him the elc and have him get in games while.burning the 1st year, what else could it realistically be other than Howard not being guaranteed a roster spot next season and potentially having to play some time in Syracuse? I highly doubt him having to wait a week or two this season was a dealbreaker, and again, if he is as good as he clearly thinks he is, he shouldn't have had an issue beating about a few other guys to get a spot on the team next year. Since it's possible that he won't get the spot, and he may not want to spend any time in the AHL, he chose a different path. Tampa doesn't usually prefer those types of players, so if this is what's happening here, JBB will field trade offers after the season.

 

[JTBF81]

I think you're asking way too much. Solid young defensemen tend to have higher values on their own than Howard. Maybe a fringe D + a 2nd.

I think a lot of us are really, really overrating this prospect. He hasn't proven much of anything. We are dealing pure potential, and there's like a 50-50 shot he becomes nothing at all.

If there's only one team interested , maybe. But if multiple teams are, than JBB could get that, or close imo. Even if it's just a straight 1 for 1 swap for a young dman or close to ready good prospect, that's fine as well. Chicago has several, Detroit has Johansson, and I'm sure there are other options.

 

[DFC]

If there's only one team interested , maybe. But if multiple teams are, than JBB could get that, or close imo. Even if it's just a straight 1 for 1 swap for a young dman or close to ready good prospect, that's fine as well. Chicago has several, Detroit has Johansson, and I'm sure there are other options.

I think we add for a young Dman unless he also has yet to play in the NHL.

Any young D that has established himself in the NHL is going to get more than a guy who's 21 and yet to play pro. His college achievements, with the context of his age, aren't as impressive as some of us think.

 

[Point21]

Howard said there were "philosophical differences" between his side and how Tampa approached things, and that it's just a business decision. Now true, we don't have any official confirmation of anything, but if JBB was going to offer him the elc and have him get in games while.burning the 1st year, what else could it realistically be other than Howard not being guaranteed a roster spot next season and potentially having to play some time in Syracuse? I highly doubt him having to wait a week or two this season was a dealbreaker, and again, if he is as good as he clearly thinks he is, he shouldn't have had an issue beating about a few other guys to get a spot on the team next year. Since it's possible that he won't get the spot, and he may not want to spend any time in the AHL, he chose a different path. Tampa doesn't usually prefer those types of players, so if this is what's happening here, JBB will field trade offers after the season.

I think you are spot on, i think he was more focused on next season than the end of this season. If he wasnt almost guaranteed a spot next year, he wasnt gonna sign. I do think communication between all parties has been terrible and we saw it the same thing happen with Stamkos. Eventually we will see what all comes out and what the end result will be. More likely than not, JBB holds his cards close and doesnt move him at the draft like we all think ( Unless Howard publicly requests out) and he works towards either moving him at the TDL next year or signing him. worst case scenario is hes still with us unsigned past next years draft and no team pays up cause they know they can wait 2 extra months and get him for free as a UFA

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I think you are spot on, i think he was more focused on next season than the end of this season. If he wasnt almost guaranteed a spot next year, he wasnt gonna sign. I do think communication between all parties has been terrible and we saw it the same thing happen with Stamkos. Eventually we will see what all comes out and what the end result will be. More likely than not, JBB holds his cards close and doesnt move him at the draft like we all think ( Unless Howard publicly requests out) and he works towards either moving him at the TDL next year or signing him. worst case scenario is hes still with us unsigned past next years draft and no team pays up cause they know they can wait 2 extra months and get him for free as a UFA

Unsigned 1st rounder compensation is a 2nd round pick, which would be in the 2027 Draft. Probably going to have to trade his rights this summer, since the bridge is completely burned & there's almost no chance of signing Howard. Unless he pulls the old school move of going all 4 years and still signing with the team that drafted him, which is what NCAA guys used to do back in the day

 

[HoseEmDown]

Do we know this for a fact? Did Howard, his advisor, or BriseBois explicitly state that this was the request?

For a fact, no. But I'm sure we'll never get the full details from either side so it'll be mostly speculation. From what has been said or rumored to be said it sounds like the ELC was gonna get burned but going to Syracuse either this year or next was a problem. That could be the only reason to say you don't agree with the development path for you.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

For a fact, no. But I'm sure we'll never get the full details from either side so it'll be mostly speculation. From what has been said or rumored to be said it sounds like the ELC was gonna get burned but going to Syracuse either this year or next was a problem. That could be the only reason to say you don't agree with the development path for you.

The initial speculation/rumor was BriseBois wanted Howard to sign an ATO to end the season in order for him to play in the A and not burn a year of the ELC. Now we get speculation that BriseBois was open to burning a year of Howard's ELC this year. Yeah, we don't know until a full report from either or both sides comes out