Prospect Info: 2022 31st Overall Pick | LW Isaac Howard

He doesn't want to spend a day in Syracuse if he doesn't have to. That's the reason he hasn't been signed to any sort of contract/ATO. He wants to be in Tampa
The coaches' assessment will ultimately determine if he's going to Syracuse or not.

An ATO doesn't pay a salary. A PTO or SPC would. I have doubts that the NHL would even allow it, but it's not too far out of line with what already exists. Basically, we'd be paying him upfront, in order to make the money work when he's on an NHL contract. Players are involved in paper transactions with the AHL all the time. That's all it would be.

If the money is right, you can get that third ELC year. If he wants to burn a year still, fine.

26.1 General. The activities described or referred to in, or expressly prohibited by, Sections 26.2 through 26.7, and 26.15, whether completed or attempted, directly or indirectly, shall be deemed Circumventions under this Agreement and shall be penalized as described in and provided by Section 26.13.

26.2 Undisclosed Terms and Revenues.
A Club (directly or indirectly through a "Club Actor," i.e., any owner, shareholder, Club Affiliated Entity, the NHL or third party acting at the behest of a Club) and a Player (directly or indirectly through a "Player Actor," i.e., his Certified Agent or any other individual, any entity, or the NHLPA, acting on behalf of the Player) may not, at any time, enter into undisclosed agreements of any kind, express or implied, oral or written, or promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements, assurances of intent, or understandings of any kind involving consideration of any kind to be paid, furnished or made available or guaranteed to the Player, or Player Actor, by the Club or Club Actor either prior to, during, or after the term of the Player's SPC.
The issue is if it's undisclosed. Guys sign deals starting next year, and go on an ATO or SPC with the AHL team. We'd just be restructuring that.

Therefore, if a player signed a contract with only two days left in the regular season and was to earn $750,000 in that short span, the prorated full-season value of that contract would need to be an astronomical $72,000,000.
Syracuse likes the player. What's the problem?

 
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But even if that's his ask for this season, I don't understand it.
Tell him yeah okay we'll give you a look as 2RW for 2 games, see what you got.
You sign him, then if things don't work (if he think he's bigger than the team, behavior issues, etc) you can still trade him. And if you trade him on a ELC you'll get a better return than if you trade his unsigned rights that expire in august 2026.

My perplexity on this story is that we aren't approaching this in order to extract the most value out of all this, whether it is by having Howard with us or by trading him away.
If Tampa was in a position to offer him top 6 minutes, whether that was because they had a realistic opening there or if they weren't playing for anything, sure. Even then, regardless.of how other teams approach their college prospects or how it's perceived by some, Tampa doesn't usually let prospects "jump in line" so to speak. Howard simply isn't above this, and hasn't done anything yet to be inserted into the top 6.

I would've been fine giving him limited minutes the final couple of games when the space was realistically available to even sign.him, but JBB wasn't going to promise or guarantee either an extended look or significant minutes. There doesn't seem to be any animosity between the two sides, so I'm not concerned about the situation. Either JBB and Howard have an understanding that he'll sign next season and then get in some games (but with no guarantee.of position/minutes in the lineup), or JBB will work out a trade this summer, either having Howard as the main piece or perhaps part of a bigger package deal. Either way, I doubt JBB is losing any sleep over it.
 
I wouldn’t mind just getting the compensation pick if Howard comes out and says he just really wanted to play his senior year at MSU but intends to sign. If the option was nothing if he’s full of shit yeah adios, but at least there is that
I think it's very possible that he wanted/wants to win a national title, and that is the driving factor for him. I would rather not lose him for nothing/just get a compensatory pick, but as long as JBB feels confident about getting him signed after MSU is done next season, I guess Tampa will take that chance. JBB knows better than anyone here the likely mindset of Howard (after multiple discussions no doubt), so if he believes he'll sign, great. If he doesn't think that's the case, he'll trade his rights at the draft or thereabouts imo.
 
JBB doesn’t want to burn a cost controlled contract year for a 2-game tryout is what I’m getting from all this. Plus Coop said we want home ice, no time for experiments. And Ike seems to want to return to MSU for another year anyway.

Maybe I’m dumb but why is this a fumble? They just amicably postponed contract negotiations to next season. Or is there a source clearly stating that he won’t look to sign with us?

If he has a down year we have more leverage. If he pops off we know we have to sign him at all cost so pretty much where we’d be at today.
This is pretty much the most reasonable explanation imo. There is no fumble from JBB, who is under no obligation to guarantee anything to a college prospect. I also believe that if he and the organization truly felt that Howard was a bad fit or wasn't the kind of player that Tampa saw as part of thelr future, they would have traded him at the deadline. I think Hiward's #1 priority is bringing a national title to East Lansing, and when they got bounced in rd 1 it left a bad taste to end his college career like that. Anyway, whether Tampa wins the cup or not this season, JBB has set them up well, with or without Howard, for the future.
 
I think it's very possible that he wanted/wants to win a national title, and that is the driving factor for him. I would rather not lose him for nothing/just get a compensatory pick, but as long as JBB feels confident about getting him signed after MSU is done next season, I guess Tampa will take that chance. JBB knows better than anyone here the likely mindset of Howard (after multiple discussions no doubt), so if he believes he'll sign, great. If he doesn't think that's the case, he'll trade his rights at the draft or thereabouts imo.

I just want one of the camps to come out and say it if that's the case, there is too much ambiguity. If Howard doesn't publicly state that he wants to sign in Tampa after one last run with MSU it's a red flag.

It still looks like a fumble to me, because it's unlikely that he just wanted to do one last year at MSU instead of securing his professional career, in which case JBB should have already had discussions with his agent and jettisoned him. We'll see
 
Boy there is a whole lot of speculation around here for not really knowing anything about the situation, let alone declaring winners and losers.
I mean, it's pretty clear that the organization looks bad because they didn't plan ahead of time to make sure enough cap space was open to be able to sign Howard right away after his NCAA season was done. And if they were truly just going to send him to the A regardless, they should have traded his rights at the deadline.

We'll see what happens the rest of this season & over the summer if a solution hasn't been reached, I just don't think it makes the franchise look great
 
This is pretty much the most reasonable explanation imo. There is no fumble from JBB, who is under no obligation to guarantee anything to a college prospect. I also believe that if he and the organization truly felt that Howard was a bad fit or wasn't the kind of player that Tampa saw as part of thelr future, they would have traded him at the deadline. I think Hiward's #1 priority is bringing a national title to East Lansing, and when they got bounced in rd 1 it left a bad taste to end his college career like that. Anyway, whether Tampa wins the cup or not this season, JBB has set them up well, with or without Howard, for the future.
turns out, howard isnt under any obligation either, thats when the two parties need to compromise

from Boltprospects:
Unfortunately, word also hit today that top Lightning prospect Issac Howard’s camp is saber rattling about returning to Michigan State for his senior season with a view toward becoming a UFA in a year. I hope that’s just posturing in the midst of a contract negotiation, because if the Lightning can’t reel Howard into the boat and find themselves in a compromised leverage situation trying to trade his rights it’s going to be a painful fumble. No two ways about it. The Lightning simply haven’t had a homegrown high impact prospect like this in a while.
f***ing LOL
 
If Tampa was in a position to offer him top 6 minutes, whether that was because they had a realistic opening there or if they weren't playing for anything, sure. Even then, regardless.of how other teams approach their college prospects or how it's perceived by some, Tampa doesn't usually let prospects "jump in line" so to speak. Howard simply isn't above this, and hasn't done anything yet to be inserted into the top 6.

I would've been fine giving him limited minutes the final couple of games when the space was realistically available to even sign.him, but JBB wasn't going to promise or guarantee either an extended look or significant minutes. There doesn't seem to be any animosity between the two sides, so I'm not concerned about the situation. Either JBB and Howard have an understanding that he'll sign next season and then get in some games (but with no guarantee.of position/minutes in the lineup), or JBB will work out a trade this summer, either having Howard as the main piece or perhaps part of a bigger package deal. Either way, I doubt JBB is losing any sleep over it.
This is such a dumb mindset to have tho. (Not calling you dumb, I mean it's dumb for our staff to think it that way if it's the case).
If a prospect is deserving, he should definitely get a shot to jump the line. If we don't assess what abilities Howard has by giving him some games and a chance to play the role he excels in, how can we find out? Is the plan to put him on the 4th line with 2 5v5 players that can't create offense and expect to see him blossom there? We are used to see prospects go through the same path over and over again because it's been 9 years since the last time our prospect pool has gifted us a highly talented player.
You have to give some players the chance to show what they got by putting them to play the position they are used to play. Especially highly touted players that have shown to have that x factor.

And working out a trade this summer using Howard (while he has decided to go back to Michigan State) is just as dumb. Purposefully trade his unsigned rights, instead of bending to his requests, give him a couple of games and then trade him? Even if JBB has decided not to keep Howard, gift him a contract and then trade his ass at full value. Unsigned rights = trade away Howard for half of what he'd return if on a ELC.
JBB should definitely be loosing sleep on this, because he's not managing this thing to benefit the team in the short nor long term.

Year after year after year, we've seen our front office do the craziest things in order to (successfully) keep this team competitive while having no assets and no cap space. And now it shouldn't be maddening that we are fumbling a highly regarded prospect while risking not to get anything in return (or a penny on the dollar) while entering a salary cap bump era? Because, if what we just said isn't enough, the rising cap space would make the burning of Howard's first ELC year a lesser concern.

And yet, here we are.
There is no reason IMO to be in this position right now, absolutely no reason. It has been reportedly confirmed that Howard can't wait to turn pro, so he's not deciding to go back to Michigan State because of unfinished business.
All this makes this situation a big, big fumble.

Edit: As we have said already, our window is open now. Next year is likely to be THE year for us to win it all. Hedman still great, McDonagh old but still effective, all our core around 30 and not getting younger, bump in cap space to fix our 4th line and third D pair during the offseason. If we are all in as we should be, the team should be willing to test Howard out as soon as possible. Get a feel on what you have. See if there's potential in Howard. Study the games he can play this year and give him specific off-season homeworks to improve during the summer already. And if you don't like what he offers, you trade him and his ELC contract at the trade deadline for a very good player.
It's baffling to me that JBB has been saying this on repeat for the past 3 years "the picks we trade away can't help us win now". And yet he's turning away a potential good player that CAN and probably WOULD help us right now and in the very near future like this.
Doesn't make any sense.
 
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Sheary sucks and Geekie needed to be sent down to regain confidence and get more puck touches against worse competition. 3 games of seeing where Howard is at doesn't tank the season.

In order to get high end NCAA route players signed, you need to guarantee NHL games. BriseBois f***ed up not planning ahead of time to make sure there was open cap space to get his number 1 or number 2 prospect (depending on where you ranked him) signed.

Literally nobody in hockey ranks Howard above Geekie except for 2 users on HFboards with rose colored glasses.
 
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This is such a dumb mindset to have tho. (Not calling you dumb, I mean it's dumb for our staff to think it that way if it's the case).
If a prospect is deserving, he should definitely get a shot to jump the line. If we don't assess what abilities Howard has by giving him some games and a chance to play the role he excels in, how can we find out? Is the plan to put him on the 4th line with 2 5v5 players that can't create offense and expect to see him blossom there? We are used to see prospects go through the same path over and over again because it's been 9 years since the last time our prospect pool has gifted us a highly talented player.
You have to give some players the chance to show what they got by putting them to play the position they are used to play. Especially highly touted players that have shown to have that x factor.

And working out a trade this summer using Howard (while he has decided to go back to Michigan) is just as dumb. Purposefully trade his unsigned rights, instead of bending to his requests, give him a couple of games and then trade him? Even if JBB has decided not to keep Howard, gift him a contract and then trade his ass at full value. Unsigned rights = trade away Howard for half of what he'd return if on a ELC.
JBB should definitely be loosing sleep on this, because he's not managing this thing to benefit the team in the short nor long term.

Year after year after year, we've seen our front office do the craziest things in order to (successfully) keep this team competitive while having no assets and no cap space. And now it shouldn't be maddening that we are fumbling a highly regarded prospect while risking not to get anything in return (or a penny on the dollar) while entering a salary cap bump era? Because, if what we just said isn't enough, the rising cap space would make the burning of Howard's first ELC year a lesser concern.

And yet, here we are.
There is no reason IMO to be in this position right now, absolutely no reason. It has been reportedly confirmed that Howard can't wait to turn pro, so he's not deciding to go back to Michigan because of unfinished business.
All this makes this situation a big, big fumble.
Michigan State, not Michigan. Otherwise, very solid points here
 
Literally nobody in hockey ranks Howard above Geekie except for 2 users on HFboards with rose colored glasses.
Geekie didn't prove anything in the Dub that made me think he's more skilled than Howard, who had one shit year because he picked the wrong NCAA program for his skillset and has had two very good to great seasons in the NCAA since. Geekie was ok to start this season in the NHL.

I personally think Geekie and Howard are on par with each other in terms of ranking based on skill. Geekie is the higher floor player, so if you rank based purely on floor, then Geekie is definitely ahead.
 
yeah, i mean JBB could have signed him, but he didn't because he's an old man with singular ideological fixations pertaining to prospects and meritocracy, i really respect that even though it could create a devastating negative feedback loop for future prospects, but at least its like, an ethos man.
 
yeah, i mean JBB could have signed him, but he didn't because he's an old man with singular ideological fixations pertaining to prospects and meritocracy, i really respect that even though it could create a devastating negative feedback loop for future prospects, but at least its like, an ethos man.
If BriseBois and the organization think this way, I hope they let every prospect know this during pre draft interviews and then post draft to the guys they draft. At least be honest about "You need to spend time in the A" if that's their strict philosophy
 
This is such a dumb mindset to have tho. (Not calling you dumb, I mean it's dumb for our staff to think it that way if it's the case).
If a prospect is deserving, he should definitely get a shot to jump the line. If we don't assess what abilities Howard has by giving him some games and a chance to play the role he excels in, how can we find out? Is the plan to put him on the 4th line with 2 5v5 players that can't create offense and expect to see him blossom there? We are used to see prospects go through the same path over and over again because it's been 9 years since the last time our prospect pool has gifted us a highly talented player.
You have to give some players the chance to show what they got by putting them to play the position they are used to play. Especially highly touted players that have shown to have that x factor.

And working out a trade this summer using Howard (while he has decided to go back to Michigan State) is just as dumb. Purposefully trade his unsigned rights, instead of bending to his requests, give him a couple of games and then trade him? Even if JBB has decided not to keep Howard, gift him a contract and then trade his ass at full value. Unsigned rights = trade away Howard for half of what he'd return if on a ELC.
JBB should definitely be loosing sleep on this, because he's not managing this thing to benefit the team in the short nor long term.

Year after year after year, we've seen our front office do the craziest things in order to (successfully) keep this team competitive while having no assets and no cap space. And now it shouldn't be maddening that we are fumbling a highly regarded prospect while risking not to get anything in return (or a penny on the dollar) while entering a salary cap bump era? Because, if what we just said isn't enough, the rising cap space would make the burning of Howard's first ELC year a lesser concern.

And yet, here we are.
There is no reason IMO to be in this position right now, absolutely no reason. It has been reportedly confirmed that Howard can't wait to turn pro, so he's not deciding to go back to Michigan State because of unfinished business.
All this makes this situation a big, big fumble.

Edit: As we have said already, our window is open now. Next year is likely to be THE year for us to win it all. Hedman still great, McDonagh old but still effective, all our core around 30 and not getting younger, bump in cap space to fix our 4th line and third D pair during the offseason. If we are all in as we should be, the team should be willing to test Howard out as soon as possible. Get a feel on what you have. See if there's potential in Howard. Study the games he can play this year and give him specific off-season homeworks to improve during the summer already. And if you don't like what he offers, you trade him and his ELC contract at the trade deadline for a very good player.
It's baffling to me that JBB has been saying this on repeat for the past 3 years "the picks we trade away can't help us win now". And yet he's turning away a potential good player that CAN and probably WOULD help us right now and in the very near future like this.
Doesn't make any sense.
He may want to turn pro, but he also may want to win a national championship. Both can easily be true.

He doesn't deserve top 6 time, yet, in the minds and opinions of the people who run the team. He can certainly, like every other prospect, earn a bigger role by excelling in camp and then preseason, had he chosen that option. Having one very good year against college players does not mean, nor justify, automatic placement in the top 6 of a Stanley Cup contender.

If JBB felt he wasn't going to be part of the team, he likely would have traded him already, or he will facilitate one this summer. There's also no evidence that he will get "pennies on the dollar" if he moves him.

JBB didn't want to burn the elc year, and the team didn't have the space anyway until this coming weelend to sign him. Whether that option was actually on the table or not, who knows. JBB wasn't going to not improve the team as best he could at the deadline in order to keep an extra 900k available in case Howard was bounced early. If Howard thought he was going to get some pass to the top 6 and not have to go to Syracuse after the regular season, like every other Tampa prospect has done, then he was mistaken in thinking that much of himself. Again, I don't think there is any bad blood between the two sides, and I think JBB feels reasonably confident that Howard will sign after he's done at MSU. If Tampa still has his rights after the draft, I'd say it's even more likely.

It's no fumble by JBB or the team that they had their long standing position in regards to prospects and continued plan for the team, and that they didn't cowtow to whatever Howard wanted at the end of a season where they are battling for a division and some level of home ice. They weren't that interested in experimenting at this point, and if they aren't going to promote the better player and prospect in Geekie at this point for any meaningful time, they were very unlikely to give that to Howard either.
 
He may want to turn pro, but he also may want to win a national championship. Both can easily be true.

He doesn't deserve top 6 time, yet, in the minds and opinions of the people who run the team. He can certainly, like every other prospect, earn a bigger role by excelling in camp and then preseason, had he chosen that option. Having one very good year against college players does not mean, nor justify, automatic placement in the top 6 of a Stanley Cup contender.

If JBB felt he wasn't going to be part of the team, he likely would have traded him already, or he will facilitate one this summer. There's also no evidence that he will get "pennies on the dollar" if he moves him.

JBB didn't want to burn the elc year, and the team didn't have the space anyway until this coming weelend to sign him. Whether that option was actually on the table or not, who knows. JBB wasn't going to not improve the team as best he could at the deadline in order to keep an extra 900k available in case Howard was bounced early. If Howard thought he was going to get some pass to the top 6 and not have to go to Syracuse after the regular season, like every other Tampa prospect has done, then he was mistaken in thinking that much of himself. Again, I don't think there is any bad blood between the two sides, and I think JBB feels reasonably confident that Howard will sign after he's done at MSU. If Tampa still has his rights after the draft, I'd say it's even more likely.

It's no fumble by JBB or the team that they had their long standing position in regards to prospects and continued plan for the team, and that they didn't cowtow to whatever Howard wanted at the end of a season where they are battling for a division and some level of home ice. They weren't that interested in experimenting at this point, and if they aren't going to promote the better player and prospect in Geekie at this point for any meaningful time, they were very unlikely to give that to Howard either.

I don’t get the reluctance to burn the ELC year. Give him one game, give him the signing bonus and let him be a black ace in the playoffs. Agreed that if Howard is expecting anything more than that, we have a bigger problem. Otherwise, I don’t see the big deal. It’s a small price to pay for asset retention.
 
turns out, howard isnt under any obligation either, thats when the two parties need to compromise

from Boltprospects:

f***ing LOL
Lol, so one source says it's a fumble, if any of that speculation is even true, cool I guess. There's compromise and then there's giving Howard whatever he wanted. JBB and Tampa was never going to do that. At best, he should've been offered limited minutes in a game or tops, two, at the end. No time in the top 6 or playoffs. If he didn't like that, too bad. If JBB offered nothing but Syracuse, while not an amazing offer, it is the path most in tbe organization take out if college. The only compromise would be a handful of minutes in the last two games, with likely no time in the top 6 nor much power play time. The organization shouldn't be leveraged anymore than that, if any of this "saber ratyling" is actually what is occurring.
 
He may want to turn pro, but he also may want to win a national championship. Both can easily be true.

He doesn't deserve top 6 time, yet, in the minds and opinions of the people who run the team. He can certainly, like every other prospect, earn a bigger role by excelling in camp and then preseason, had he chosen that option. Having one very good year against college players does not mean, nor justify, automatic placement in the top 6 of a Stanley Cup contender.

If JBB felt he wasn't going to be part of the team, he likely would have traded him already, or he will facilitate one this summer. There's also no evidence that he will get "pennies on the dollar" if he moves him.

JBB didn't want to burn the elc year, and the team didn't have the space anyway until this coming weelend to sign him. Whether that option was actually on the table or not, who knows. JBB wasn't going to not improve the team as best he could at the deadline in order to keep an extra 900k available in case Howard was bounced early. If Howard thought he was going to get some pass to the top 6 and not have to go to Syracuse after the regular season, like every other Tampa prospect has done, then he was mistaken in thinking that much of himself. Again, I don't think there is any bad blood between the two sides, and I think JBB feels reasonably confident that Howard will sign after he's done at MSU. If Tampa still has his rights after the draft, I'd say it's even more likely.

It's no fumble by JBB or the team that they had their long standing position in regards to prospects and continued plan for the team, and that they didn't cowtow to whatever Howard wanted at the end of a season where they are battling for a division and some level of home ice. They weren't that interested in experimenting at this point, and if they aren't going to promote the better player and prospect in Geekie at this point for any meaningful time, they were very unlikely to give that to Howard either.
I think Howard just wanted to get signed to a normal ELC, make his NHL debut, and not go to Syracuse to end the season. I don't think that's unreasonable tbh.
 
I don’t get the reluctance to burn the ELC year. Give him one game, give him the signing bonus and let him be a black ace in the playoffs. Agreed that if Howard is expecting anything more than that, we have a bigger problem. Otherwise, I don’t see the big deal. It’s a small price to pay for asset retention.
I have said that I think, in order to appease Howard, that a game or two with limited minutes, after cap space is available, would be fine. No top 6 or likely playoff time should be on the table though imo (of cohrse injuries and ogher factors could change things). I don't care so much about burning the elc year, and that wouldn't/shouldn't be a deal breaker imo.
 
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I have said that I think, in order to appease Howard, that a game or two with limited minutes, after cap space is available, would be fine. No top 6 or likely playoff time should be on the table though imo (of cohrse injuries and ogher factors could change things). I don't care so much about burning the elc year, and that wouldn't/shouldn't be a deal breaker imo.
So we generally agree on the same thing at this point. I never said (at least never late this season) that he should be getting playoff games, that wasn't likely after we addressed the lineup issues at the deadline. Objectively, the f***up by BriseBois is not planning months in advance to have enough cap space to be able to sign one of the franchise's top prospects after his NCAA season ended. This does not happen to other franchises, pretty simple.
 
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So we generally agree on the same thing at this point. I never said (at least never late this season) that he should be getting playoff games, that wasn't likely after we addressed the lineup issues at the deadline. Objectively, the f***up by BriseBois is not planning months in advance to have enough cap space to be able to sign one of the franchise's top prospects after his NCAA season ended. This does not happen to other franchises, pretty simple.
The cap space will be there, and it ultimately is like a 5 game delay (which I don't think Tampa was ever giving him that many games anyways). I also think both sided likely planned on Howard getting ready to play tonight in the frozen four, so it wouldn't have been any issue.
 
The cap space will be there, and it ultimately is like a 5 game delay (which I don't think Tampa was ever giving him that many games anyways). I also think both sided likely planned on Howard getting ready to play tonight in the frozen four, so it wouldn't have been any issue.
Personally, this seems like a convenient excuse. From the handful of info that has been reported, it seems like the Lightning may have reneged on their initial guarantee of getting him an NHL game and wanted him down in the A, which obviously Howard did not want to do. Seems more like communication issues or the organization changing their mind on his destination than "We thought State would be in the Frozen Four & didn't plan on having the opportunity to sign him earlier."

At the end of the day, the cap space wasn't there and they didn't plan well enough ahead of time to avoid this mess. And if they thought it was going to be a mess, than they should have just traded him at the deadline.
 

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