Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part 1

[Hodge]

Meloche at that price and term would have been a way better signing than any of the RDs we signed.

No it wouldn’t. Meloche is terrible. Nutivaara and Benning have had actual NHL success.

 

[Sharksrule04]

If we’ve learned anything this summer, it’s that the most valuable asset in this entire league is cap space. You never know when you can get a quality player literally for free just by having the cap space for them.

The same people worried about how we’re going to afford Meier are not concerned that we’re spending $5M on Benning, Kunin, and Lindblom. I just don’t get it.

Exactly! The Sharks won't have any cap space to gather draft picks because we're overpaying or acquiring pieces we don't need and don't make us better or worse really. I mentioned it in another thread but that trade the Coyotes did with the Rangers for Nemeth would have given me some faith in Grier if he made that move. It would have given us 2 extra 2nd round picks for taking a 2.5M cap hit for 2 years. Instead we sign Benning and Nuutivara for that combined value? Why? If we are rebuilding, tanking, resetting (whatever you want to call it, we should be signing league minimum deals and hoarding as much cap space as possible and taking on Nemeth's and Kassian's while stockpiling draft picks. We've added exactly 0 additional draft picks and have moved our most valuable piece and have little to no cap space.

 

[Sharksrule04]

No it wouldn’t. Meloche is terrible. Nutivaara and Benning have had actual NHL success.

But I thought you want us to be awful? Having Meloche makes us worse and saves us like 300-500K depending on which player we didn't sign. Extra cap = good.

 

[Gecklund]

No it wouldn’t. Meloche is terrible. Nutivaara and Benning have had actual NHL success.

well that’s revisionist history if I’ve ever seen it. Benning is the same player as Meloche just signed for four years at a higher cost and Nutivaara is a question mark because of his health.

 

[TheBeard]

well that’s revisionist history if I’ve ever seen it. Benning is the same player as Meloche just signed for four years at a higher cost and Nutivaara is a question mark because of his health.

Keep in mind when we dump Vlasic and Simek in the next year; there’s going to be little to no experience on the blue line. EK is a health concern and after that it’s Ferraro. Merk is still a massive question mark. Having a 7D with major experience is important.

 

[themelkman]

Keep in mind when we dump Vlasic and Simek in the next year; there’s going to be little to no experience on the blue line. EK is a health concern and after that it’s Ferraro. Merk is still a massive question mark. Having a 7D with major experience is important.

You think we are dumping either of them? “They are excited to be part of the sharks”

 

[Gecklund]

Keep in mind when we dump Vlasic and Simek in the next year; there’s going to be little to no experience on the blue line. EK is a health concern and after that it’s Ferraro. Merk is still a massive question mark. Having a 7D with major experience is important.

How are we dumping either of them? Also if it’s next year all these guys have another year.

 

[Cas]

You think we are dumping either of them? “They are excited to be part of the sharks”

Vlasic is also undumpable, save into our own dumpster.

I guess it's possible to imagine a world where some team is willing to acquire three years of a $3.5M 7-8th defenseman without bringing along a nice prospect/pick sweetener, but it's also possible to imagine a world with unicorns and donut rain.

 

[Hodge]

But I thought you want us to be awful? Having Meloche makes us worse and saves us like 300-500K depending on which player we didn't sign. Extra cap = good.

I was responding to the claim Meloche would have been a better signing which is ridiculous. Meloche is an AHL player who should be on a two way contract. Also the Sharks will be awful regardless of who plays on their third pair anyway.

well that’s revisionist history if I’ve ever seen it. Benning is the same player as Meloche just signed for four years at a higher cost and Nutivaara is a question mark because of his health.

That just sounds like you have no idea who either Matt Benning or Nicolas Meloche is. Meloche was the worst defenseman to play regular minutes for the Sharks last season and easily among the worst in the league. He’s also 25 so very unlikely to improve. Benning is a very solid and established third pairing NHL dman.

 

[TheBeard]

How are we dumping either of them? Also if it’s next year all these guys have another year.

Vlasic will be bought out next year, Simek will not be on the team next year. Also, what guys? We don’t really have any blue liners. Hatakka? Knyazev? We have no real prospects nor guarantees this upcoming season.

 

[Gecklund]

I was responding to the claim Meloche would have been a better signing which is ridiculous. Meloche is an AHL player who should be on a two way contract. Also the Sharks will be awful regardless of who plays on their third pair anyway.

That just sounds like you have no idea who either Matt Benning or Nicolas Meloche is. Meloche was the worst defenseman to play regular minutes for the Sharks last season and easily among the worst in the league. He’s also 25 so very unlikely to improve. Benning is a very solid and established third pairing NHL dman.

Funny bud. I’ve actually seen Benning play. Have you? Cause I’d guess not. Benning was one of the worst Dmen on the Preds last year. Funny how we got the worst two. Meloche isn’t a top 4 D but was played as one. You’re also not counting on the seasons Meloche lost due to injury. He could easily take another step.

Vlasic will be bought out next year, Simek will not be on the team next year. Also, what guys? We don’t really have any blue liners. Hatakka? Knyazev? We have no real prospects nor guarantees this upcoming season.

Will he? We said the same about Vlasic last year. Again how is Simek getting dumped? Merkley, Meloche (in the example of the original post), Ferraro, Knyzhov, Hatakka, Kniazev all will have another year under them. Maybe Laroque, Furlong, Havelid, etc. take HUGE unpredictable steps (can’t count on that though).

 

[TheBeard]

Funny bud. I’ve actually seen Benning play. Have you? Cause I’d guess not. Benning was one of the worst Dmen on the Preds last year. Funny how we got the worst two. Meloche isn’t a top 4 D but was played as one. You’re also not counting on the seasons Meloche lost due to injury. He could easily take another step.

Will he? We said the same about Vlasic last year. Again how is Simek getting dumped? Merkley, Meloche (in the example of the original post), Ferraro, Knyzhov, Hatakka, Kniazev all will have another year under them. Maybe Laroque, Furlong, Havelid, etc. take HUGE unpredictable steps (can’t count on that though).

Can’t count on it either. Having some experience there in a “in case of fire break glass” role for a measly 1.25, especially on a team counting or hoping for 2-3 rookies to play real minutes is massive. What if Ferraro takes another step back? Do you sign him long term then for 5-6 (which is what he’d probably get on the market judging by some of these other deals)? Will Knyz ever actually play for the team again? Way too many variables for a team looking for young talent to prove themselves. Or perhaps you were ok with constantly thrusting Megna and Meloche into the lineup every night along with Vlasic?

 

[Gecklund]

Can’t count on it either. Having some experience there in a “in case of fire break glass” role for a measly 1.25, especially on a team counting or hoping for 2-3 rookies to play real minutes is massive. What if Ferraro takes another step back? Do you sign him long term then for 5-6 (which is what he’d probably get on the market judging by some of these other deals)? Will Knyz ever actually play for the team again? Way too many variables for a team looking for young talent to prove themselves. Or perhaps you were ok with constantly thrusting Megna and Meloche into the lineup every night along with Vlasic?

Megna and Meloche aren’t comparable. You’re talking about these variables for this season but you were talking about next season originally.

 

[Cas]

Vlasic will be bought out next year, Simek will not be on the team next year. Also, what guys? We don’t really have any blue liners. Hatakka? Knyazev? We have no real prospects nor guarantees this upcoming season.

So we sign Benning to a one or two year deal or sign another Benning-level guy next year. Outside of Vlasic and Simek, we already had yet another Benning-level guy for next year in Megna, too.

We'd be fine for experienced defensemen without Benning. We won't have enough good defensemen, but we don't right now anyway - most of our blue line is going to be composed of #7-8 guys, at least one and probably two in top-four roles (like Benning, probably, who might be our 2RD, and is not going to be a "break glass in case of emergency" guy).

 

[Hodge]

Funny bud. I’ve actually seen Benning play. Have you? Cause I’d guess not. Benning was one of the worst Dmen on the Preds last year. Funny how we got the worst two. Meloche isn’t a top 4 D but was played as one. You’re also not counting on the seasons Meloche lost due to injury. He could easily take another step.

Will he? We said the same about Vlasic last year. Again how is Simek getting dumped? Merkley, Meloche (in the example of the original post), Ferraro, Knyzhov, Hatakka, Kniazev all will have another year under them. Maybe Laroque, Furlong, Havelid, etc. take HUGE unpredictable steps (can’t count on that though).

Being "one of the worst dmen" on a playoff team widely considered to have among the deepest bluelines in the league is not a mark against a guy you're bringing in at a negligible cap hit to play third pairing minutes. Meanwhile Meloche was indisputably the worst defenseman on the Sharks, a bottom ten team with a terrible blueline.

Tanking or not it's embarrassing and counterproductive to just hand out NHL lineup spots to players who clearly belong in the AHL like Meloche, Merkley and Megna. Benning and Nutivaara are actual NHL defensemen who prevent the Sharks from having to do that next season. I am in no way saying these are amazing players who will stop the team from being bad but they're not paid like that either. All the contracts Grier has signed so far have been perfectly reasonable.

 

[TheBeard]

Megna and Meloche aren’t comparable. You’re talking about these variables for this season but you were talking about next season originally.

I’m talking about every season until we find guys that can be mainstays on the blueline. Even if we find a couple diamonds in the rough this season, who knows where there development is next season? All I’m saying is having a low rent steady presence as a 7D is as much about patience for the younger guys as it is having someone in the lineup. Nemeth, for better or worse doesn’t really help anyone’s development and that, to me, isn’t worth picking up additional picks 2 and 3 years further down the road for guys that won’t be potential fixtures for another 5 or 6.

 

[TheBeard]

So we sign Benning to a one or two year deal or sign another Benning-level guy next year. Outside of Vlasic and Simek, we already had yet another Benning-level guy for next year in Megna, too.

We'd be fine for experienced defensemen without Benning. We won't have enough good defensemen, but we don't right now anyway - most of our blue line is going to be composed of #7-8 guys, at least one and probably two in top-four roles (like Benning, probably, who might be our 2RD, and is not going to be a "break glass in case of emergency" guy).

What’s the difference if we sign someone cheap to a two year deal now and then again in two years and just signing someone to a 4 year deal? Two years from now the same type of player may now cost 1.75-2. As for the blue line in general? Yeah I think you’re right. It’s not a good unit and Benning doesn’t change that either way and his 1.25 isn’t really enough to fascilitate a trade for anything beyond a 6th rounder.

You don’t think Merk is pencilled in as 2RD?

 

[Gecklund]

Being "one of the worst dmen" on a playoff team widely considered to have among the deepest bluelines in the league is not a mark against a guy you're bringing in at a negligible cap hit to play third pairing minutes. Meanwhile Meloche was indisputably the worst defenseman on the Sharks, a bottom ten team with a terrible blueline.

Tanking or not it's embarrassing and counterproductive to just hand out NHL lineup spots to players who clearly belong in the AHL like Meloche, Merkley and Megna. Benning and Nutivaara are actual NHL defensemen who prevent the Sharks from having to do that next season. I am in no way saying these are amazing players who will stop the team from being bad but they're not paid like that either. All the contracts Grier has signed so far have been perfectly reasonable.

In what freaking world does Nashville have “one of the deepest blue lines?” Is this 2018 still? They got Josi, Ekholm and crap. Meloche wasn’t the worst dman on this team but no continue with your stupid claims. Especially considering you’ve said the same about every single other dman on this roster.

Funny because every single one of those players listed are comparable or better than Benning. Again Nutivaara is a question mark due to injury.

13th forward making 2M, AHL D making 1.2M, question mark making 1.5M, 3rd liner making 2.5M but PERFECTLY REASONABLE. Thought you were getting better but these past few weeks you’ve just regressed.

I’m talking about every season until we find guys that can be mainstays on the blueline. Even if we find a couple diamonds in the rough this season, who knows where there development is next season? All I’m saying is having a low rent steady presence as a 7D is as much about patience for the younger guys as it is having someone in the lineup. Nemeth, for better or worse doesn’t really help anyone’s development and that, to me, isn’t worth picking up additional picks 2 and 3 years further down the road for guys that won’t be potential fixtures for another 5 or 6.

We already have a low rent 7D in Megna and we already have 2 other 7Ds in Simek and Vlasic. There is genuinely no reason to sign Benning or Nutivaara over Meloche except VET GOOD caveman think. Grier has been on the job for like 2 weeks and shown nothing more than this caveman, good ole boy thinking that is going to drag this team back and make this rebuild take 20 years rather than 5.

 

[TheBeard]

In what freaking world does Nashville have “one of the deepest blue lines?” Is this 2018 still? They got Josi, Ekholm and crap. Meloche wasn’t the worst dman on this team but no continue with your stupid claims. Especially considering you’ve said the same about every single other dman on this roster.

Funny because every single one of those players listed are comparable or better than Benning. Again Nutivaara is a question mark due to injury.

13th forward making 2M, AHL D making 1.2M, question mark making 1.5M, 3rd liner making 2.5M but PERFECTLY REASONABLE. Thought you were getting better but these past few weeks you’ve just regressed.

We already have a low rent 7D in Megna and we already have 2 other 7Ds in Simek and Vlasic. There is genuinely no reason to sign Benning or Nutivaara over Meloche except VET GOOD caveman think. Grier has been on the job for like 2 weeks and shown nothing more than this caveman, good ole boy thinking that is going to drag this team back and make this rebuild take 20 years rather than 5.

I honestly can’t understand the mental extremism that signing a 7th defenseman at 1.25 is going to delay a rebuild by 15 years but if you’re that upset about it then I’m sorry.

 

[Hodge]

In what freaking world does Nashville have “one of the deepest blue lines?” Is this 2018 still? They got Josi, Ekholm and crap. Meloche wasn’t the worst dman on this team but no continue with your stupid claims. Especially considering you’ve said the same about every single other dman on this roster.

Funny because every single one of those players listed are comparable or better than Benning. Again Nutivaara is a question mark due to injury.

13th forward making 2M, AHL D making 1.2M, question mark making 1.5M, 3rd liner making 2.5M but PERFECTLY REASONABLE. Thought you were getting better but these past few weeks you’ve just regressed.

We already have a low rent 7D in Megna and we already have 2 other 7Ds in Simek and Vlasic. There is genuinely no reason to sign Benning or Nutivaara over Meloche except VET GOOD caveman think. Grier has been on the job for like 2 weeks and shown nothing more than this caveman, good ole boy thinking that is going to drag this team back and make this rebuild take 20 years rather than

It seems like you get emotionally attached to players in the Sharks system just because they are in the Sharks system. It makes you incapable of objectively assessing Meloche or Merkley for what they actually are. There is no other explanation for considering them superior players to experienced and established vets who have consistently put up good results in the NHL.

 

[Gecklund]

I honestly can’t understand the mental extremism that signing a 7th defenseman at 1.25 is going to delay a rebuild by 15 years but if you’re that upset about it then I’m sorry.

Yes continue to ignore the point. I’m done here. I’ve told you my point for the past 3 days and continue to misrepresent it and ignore it. If you are not going to discuss in good faith we are done here.

It seems like you get emotionally attached to players in the Sharks system just because they are in the Sharks system. It makes you incapable of objectively assessing Meloche or Merkley for what they actually are. There is no other explanation for considering them superior players to experienced and established vets who have consistently put up good results in the NHL.

Good results? By what measure? Just because they played games doesn’t mean shit. It seems like you just hate all things Sharks so anyone instantly gets taken a step down if they play a game.

 

[Hodge]

Good results? By what measure? Just because they played games doesn’t mean shit. It seems like you just hate all things Sharks so anyone instantly gets taken a step down if they play a game.

He put up great underlying numbers for his role in Edmonton too. Nutivaara very similar before the injury. Neither of these contracts carry any risk. Insane to get so mad about them.

 

[Gecklund]

View attachment 569640
He put up great underlying numbers for his role in Edmonton too. Nutivaara very similar before the injury. Neither of these contracts carry any risk. Insane to get so mad about them.

Those numbers aren’t anywhere near as good as you’re making them seem. You don’t think a 4 year contract carries risk? Also funny that you’re also ignoring the point. Done here. You continue to misconstrue and misrepresent my points. Come back when you learn how to have a discussion instead of moving goal posts bud.

 

[TheBeard]

Yes continue to ignore the point. I’m done here. I’ve told you my point for the past 3 days and continue to misrepresent it and ignore it. If you are not going to discuss in good faith we are done here.

Good results? By what measure? Just because they played games doesn’t mean shit. It seems like you just hate all things Sharks so anyone instantly gets taken a step down if they play a game.

I don’t really understand your point. Did you think Grier was going to come in, trade all our assets for first round picks and then take the cap returns for more first round picks? They weren’t going to turn this around in one off-season and what they did these last few days doesn’t define what the team will end up doing.

 

[Gecklund]

I don’t really understand your point. Did you think Grier was going to come in, trade all our assets for first round picks and then take the cap returns for more first round picks? They weren’t going to turn this around in one off-season and what they did these last few days doesn’t define what the team will end up doing.

No I thought Grier would give our young guys a chance and not hand out overpaid contracts to shitty players. Sturm is no better than Reedy. Benning is no better than Meloche. Lindblom is no better than Balcers. ALL of them are signed for way too much and way too long. Lorentz is no better than Chmelevski. Kunin is no better than
Gregor. Grier has signed a pile of shit to block our young guys.