GDT: 2022-23 NHL Playoffs

[AlexModvechkin8]

Discuss.

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[trick9]

Samsonov vs. Vasilevsky
Vanecek vs. Shesterkin

I'm intrigued.

 

[twabby]

What makes this hit illegal in your mind? I only saw a couple of angles and pardon me if i missed something but from what i saw: this was not late or at very best borderline late. Not a blindside hit. Does not make initial contact with the head. Most damage appears to be from Pavelski hitting his head on the ice which would not be the first time he had to woddble off the ice.
It was mean and it was ruthless but isint it what playoff hockey is supposed to be?

I don’t think it’s illegal, which is my point.

It was a hit that had no intention other than to injure. He wasn't trying to make a play on the puck, and he wasn't trying to dispossess Pavelski or defend against him in any way. It was purely an attempt to blow him up. I think those types of hits should be illegal.

Finishing checks is lame. Sorry you're too slow and bad at hockey to actually defend properly and you have to resort to running through a guy well after the puck is gone!

 

[Raikkonen]

how is our soon to be top-6 upgrade mojo doing?

 

[Calicaps]

I don’t think it’s illegal, which is my point.

It was a hit that had no intention other than to injure. He wasn't trying to make a play on the puck, and he wasn't trying to dispossess Pavelski or defend against him in any way. It was purely an attempt to blow him up. I think those types of hits should be illegal.

Finishing checks is lame. Sorry you're too slow and bad at hockey to actually defend properly and you have to resort to running through a guy well after the puck is gone!

Nonsense. It has a purpose other than injury--intimidation and punishment. Those are legitimate hockey objectives. The injury is unfortunate, but it happened mainly because Pav's head hit the ice hard. I can agree the hit was a tiny bit late, but otherwise, fine.

 

[um]

I don’t think it’s illegal, which is my point.

It was a hit that had no intention other than to injure. He wasn't trying to make a play on the puck, and he wasn't trying to dispossess Pavelski or defend against him in any way. It was purely an attempt to blow him up. I think those types of hits should be illegal.

Finishing checks is lame. Sorry you're too slow and bad at hockey to actually defend properly and you have to resort to running through a guy well after the puck is gone!

eh, It was a clean hit with an unfortunate result for an unusually unaware Pavelski.

This is the reason playoff hockey is so much better than the regular season. Now intimidation and mind games are a factor. That was the Caps identity when they won the cup. I fondly remember the Caps turning up the heat in game 6 in the conference finals and pounding the Lightning every chance they got. Game 6 and Game 7 of that series was the finest hockey I've ever seen the Caps play.

2 years and one embarrassing sweep later the Lightning used the same philosophy and got Maroon, Coleman, then Goodrow, Paul, Perry, Etc. Then they started winning Cups.

Playoffs are a battle and I hope to god they never change it.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yep, the physical battle is real and so is attrition….Stars playing good hard playoff hockey with hits like that.

 

[twabby]

Nonsense. It has a purpose other than injury--intimidation and punishment. Those are legitimate hockey objectives. The injury is unfortunate, but it happened mainly because Pav's head hit the ice hard. I can agree the hit was a tiny bit late, but otherwise, fine.

How would a player become intimidated if there wasn't a threat of being injured?

Yes the injury happened because his head hit the ice. And his head hit the ice because he received a hit well after the puck left his stick from a player who could have easily avoided contact but chose not to. But I'm sure he only meant to intimidate Pavelski and it was just unfortunate that he got injured!

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Different in hurting and injuring…..the threat of both is real.

Checking in hockey is like going to the body in boxing….hit it enough and your opponent flinches more and more or doesn’t even go to the space to expose themselves to the punishment and then you’ve won.

 

[twabby]

Different in hurting and injuring…..the threat of both is real.

Checking in hockey is like going to the body in boxing….hit it enough and your opponent flinches more and more or doesn’t even go to the space to expose themselves to the punishment and then you’ve won.

Boxing is a dead sport. Perhaps hockey should be more ambitious than to emulate boxing!

 

[YippieKaey]

Hathaways disallowed goal against the Panthers made me smile. Obviously that wasn't gonna count but Hathaway is what he is.

 

[kicksavedave]

Boxing is a dead sport. Perhaps hockey should be more ambitious than to emulate boxing!

But the concept of softening up your opponent to gain an advantage applies in many sports, and war, and several other competitive areas as well.

That said, intimidation and "softening" both have to be done within the rules, and late hits are already illegal. If a ref's judgement call was missed, that's part of the whole package and unfortunate, but not really worthy of a call for changing the rules.

 

[Calicaps]

Boxing is a dead sport. Perhaps hockey should be more ambitious than to emulate boxing!

the point is, if you tenderize guys enough they make mistakes trying to avoid it. it happens with QBs in football too. and yes, sometimes injuries happen. it's a physical game.

 

[Cappy76]

The hit isn't even late IMO, I count maybe 1.5-2.0 secs from the time the puck leaves his stick to the point of Dumba hitting him. Add to it that Dumba has him lined up before the puck leaves his stick. It's unfortunate that Pavelski's head bounced of the ice but that's part of the risk of hitting you're going to have times when a clean hit results in an injury.

 

[twabby]

the point is, if you tenderize guys enough they make mistakes trying to avoid it. it happens with QBs in football too. and yes, sometimes injuries happen. it's a physical game.

I agree it’s a decent strategy that can pay dividends.

I’m just saying it’s stupid that hitting players well after the puck has left their stick is not only allowed, but encouraged. I like skill to win out, and I like brains to not be scrambled. But that’s just me!

 

[Cappy76]

I agree it’s a decent strategy that can pay dividends.

I’m just saying it’s stupid that hitting players well after the puck has left their stick is not only allowed, but encouraged. I like skill to win out, and I like brains to not be scrambled. But that’s just me!

You wouldn't know you don't watch....

I've also seen slowmo somewhere that appears to show that it was the other Minnesota players stick that actually catches Pavelski in the face as Dumba is hitting him.

 

[Calicaps]

I agree it’s a decent strategy that can pay dividends.

I’m just saying it’s stupid that hitting players well after the puck has left their stick is not only allowed, but encouraged. I like skill to win out, and I like brains to not be scrambled. But that’s just me!

I think "well after" is a subjective thing. But as @kicksavedave noted, late hits are not allowed. So it's a matter of enforcement not rulemaking that bothers you. I for one enjoy both the skill and the physical qualities of NHL (and especially playoff) hockey. In fact, that combo is one of the things that makes Ovie a GOAT. If pro hockey becomes a figure skating match, I won't watch.

 

[pman25]

It’s legal hit, but definitely a cheap hit. We don’t have to kid ourselves and call it “clean”

He wanted to hurt Pavelski and blow him up. And bravo he did that. You’re allowed to do that, within the rules of course I suppose. I still think that hit was late enough to warrant a call.

Something about these hits where a player catches a guy in a vulnerable spot without making an attempt on the puck. In USA hockey, that’s a penalty now btw. You can’t just hit a guy if the puck is near him. You have to hit him while attempting to play the puck. They could easily implement that rule if they wanted to eliminate these Dumba/Trouba type hits.

But you know it’s the playoffs, we want pain!

Anyway, Dallas, we will trade you Tom Wilson for Roope Hintz, Wyatt Johnston, and Logan Stankoven so you can have the proper playoff toughness

 

[um]

How would a player become intimidated if there wasn't a threat of being injured?

Yes the injury happened because his head hit the ice. And his head hit the ice because he received a hit well after the puck left his stick from a player who could have easily avoided contact but chose not to. But I'm sure he only meant to intimidate Pavelski and it was just unfortunate that he got injured!

Have you played hockey? Getting hit can hurt and it doesn’t fill you with pride to get knocked on your ass.

You can bet going into a corner with Wilson or Orpik is an intimidating experience. They don’t need to injure them to have that effect.

Remember Hamilton bailing out on Ovie during the 2019 playoffs?

 

[Calicaps]

It’s legal hit, but definitely a cheap hit. We don’t have to kid ourselves and call it “clean”

He wanted to hurt Pavelski and blow him up. And bravo he did that. You’re allowed to do that, within the rules of course I suppose. I still think that hit was late enough to warrant a call.

Something about these hits where a player catches a guy in a vulnerable spot without making an attempt on the puck. In USA hockey, that’s a penalty now btw. You can’t just hit a guy if the puck is near him. You have to hit him while attempting to play the puck. They could easily implement that rule if they wanted to eliminate these Dumba/Trouba type hits.

But you know it’s the playoffs, we want pain!

Anyway, Dallas, we will trade you Tom Wilson for Roope Hintz, Wyatt Johnston, and Logan Stankoven so you can have the proper playoff toughness

If you think the hit was late then you don't think it was legal. So, like @twabby, your issue is really with the enforcement.

 

[twabby]

If you think the hit was late then you don't think it was legal. So, like @twabby, your issue is really with the enforcement.

NHL brass said the hit was close to being late, but legal (Per Greg Wyshynski). So it’s not an enforcement issue. It’s an issue with the rule itself. The refs didn’t miss a call, the league signed off on Dumba’s actions!

Finishing checks is on the same level as fighting: something that can affect the game, but has nothing to do with actually putting the biscuit (the puck) into the basket (the goal).

God willing these hits will be outlawed or phased out of the game like fighting!

 

[Marshall]

Shesterkin v Vanacek. I mean, that's not close, right?

 

[Cappy76]

God willing these hits will be outlawed or phased out of the game like fighting!

As someone who watches the game, hopefully not in my lifetime

 

[max21]

Go NJ! Go Vanacek!

 

[crazy8888]

I don’t think it’s illegal, which is my point.

It was a hit that had no intention other than to injure. He wasn't trying to make a play on the puck, and he wasn't trying to dispossess Pavelski or defend against him in any way. It was purely an attempt to blow him up. I think those types of hits should be illegal.

Finishing checks is lame. Sorry you're too slow and bad at hockey to actually defend properly and you have to resort to running through a guy well after the puck is gone!

I think maybe people tend to equate intend to injure with intent to put a hurting on somebody. One is obviously wrong and the other is part of the game. Finishing checks has nothing to do with bad defense. Intensity goes up in the playoffs thats why you see everyone start doing it. There are plenty of hits out there that are way worse. Outcome should not dictate the legality or i guess morality of the hit.