John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
- Nov 29, 2018
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Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Let’s Run it Back!
- Thread starter forsbergavs32
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Honestly if you can get Kadri for ~6-6.5M, I'd bring him back. And then whatever money we have leftover(Roughly $4M) toss it all at Nick Paul in free agency.
Landy - Mack - Nuke
Lehky - Kadri - Rantanen
JTC - Paul - Newhook
LOC - Meyers - Cogliano/Helm
Landy - Mack - Nuke
Lehky - Kadri - Rantanen
JTC - Paul - Newhook
LOC - Meyers - Cogliano/Helm
Now that's pretty sick forward group, yet again. Don't think we have the money tho
Richard88
John 3:16
- Jun 29, 2019
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Something to consider when it comes to the idea of trading Girard is that this Avs front office generally don't tend to trade players with term on their contracts unless they have to.
The players they've traded have almost exclusively had low term or were trades that were forced:
- Jost, a 4th liner with only 1 year remaining who had requested a trade previously. His value to the Avs also became less than his caphit.
- Graves (2 year term), a trade forced by the Expansion draft.
- Zadorov, traded as an RFA with only one year of team control as he priced himself out.
- Cole (pending UFA), forced by the salary cap.
- Barrie, only one year to UFA.
Needless to say with that track record in mind it would be somewhat surprising if they do end up trading Girard. With that history in mind it probably more realistic to expect that they'll hold on to Girard, and instead opt to trade Toews as a pending UFA in 2023 when Byram needs a raise and when Behrens will hopefully be a step closer to making the jump.
The players they've traded have almost exclusively had low term or were trades that were forced:
- Jost, a 4th liner with only 1 year remaining who had requested a trade previously. His value to the Avs also became less than his caphit.
- Graves (2 year term), a trade forced by the Expansion draft.
- Zadorov, traded as an RFA with only one year of team control as he priced himself out.
- Cole (pending UFA), forced by the salary cap.
- Barrie, only one year to UFA.
Needless to say with that track record in mind it would be somewhat surprising if they do end up trading Girard. With that history in mind it probably more realistic to expect that they'll hold on to Girard, and instead opt to trade Toews as a pending UFA in 2023 when Byram needs a raise and when Behrens will hopefully be a step closer to making the jump.
dahrougem2
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MacDonald is probably leaving the Avs to pursue a different opportunity because he can't get a sniff in the NHL here. Bednar is not a fan, that much has been clear from day one.
Olausson will need AHL time. Probably a couple of years.
Megna/Sherwood/Maltsev are what they are: AHLers that can be called up if your team runs into injuries but should never be playing more than 10 NHL games during the course of a season and never relied upon in the playoffs.
The only real AHLers I can see pushing for roster spots next season are Sampo Ranta and J.L. Foudy. If the Avs can't fill the 4C role externally I wonder if Foudy gets a shot at it. Similarly for the 4LW role, though Ranta doesn't strike me as the type to fill that role and have success.
Richard88
John 3:16
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That scenario puts you in a bind in 2023 with several big raises to cover.
At this point there is no way to avoid a bind in 2023. There will have to be deft maneuvering the next few years. All contenders deal with them.
Richard88
John 3:16
- Jun 29, 2019
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Sakic and Bednar like to have a vet who can win draws and PK as 4C so it would be very surprising if Foudy is in line for such a role. See Bellemare, Helm, Sturm, etc.
Richard Doll
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Barrie got us Kadri, I am not looking for a 1B center for him, I think Girard with his age and contract could at-least get us a Kadri caliber 2C.
Those were special circumstances. Barrie had a much bigger rep around the league at that time than Sammy does now, and Toronto happened to have an extra 2C laying around they apparently didn't need anymore. I don't see a team anywhere in the league that has that scenario at present.
Foppberg
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shadow1
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- Nov 29, 2008
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Not to be negative when I'm in a super good mood, but I wonder about his future in Denver.
Colorado's third line was so bad against Tampa and Newhook was a big part of the problem. One thing I've noticed lately (probably everyone noticed years ago) is he's so terrible at accelerating. It's like Newhook needs 2-3 steps to get going and it's so clunky. Bad skating and this team do not mix well.
I was high on him as a prospect, but with Colorado in its window, Newhook's a guy I'd trade (if I were Sakic) to a bad team for a higher end NHL talent; veteran 2C, 1G, etc.
Meh, it would give us one hell of a chance to go b2b next year, at that point who cares about 2023.
But.... We would still have EJs 6M coming off the books in 23'. Depending on what Mack signs for, the EJ money should cover all of his raise, and then still a little bit left over.
At that point you also simply have to make a decision with the Defense and move on from one of the 3 LDs.
Newhook could wind up being trade bait for further upgrades on the roster next deadline as well IMO, so then you dont have to worry about him getting 3-4M if not more summer 23'
If Kadri signed for $6M and Paul for $4M, they could have enough space. Depending on what Nuke, and Lehky get as well as what our 1G looks like.
Foppberg
Registered User
Oh it's true whether you want to believe it or not, he was the primary offensive catalyst on a contending team at the time he was dealt. Barrie's point totals his entirety with the Avs, if you exclude the disaster of 2016-17 were 38, 53, 49, 57, and 59. Note that he had his best point totals those final two seasons, and scored career highs in goals with 14 both of those seasons. He was considered one of the most consistent pure puckmovers in the league and quarterbacked one of the better power plays in the league.
Sammy is many things, but he's not what Barrie was for the Avs. He's a different player. I'd say he's better all-around, but that's beside the point.
Someday I may talk at length as to why I feel Barrie remains sorely underrated and underappreciated, especially here. I don't think his decline is all on him BTW. But anyway, point is, you can say Girard is a comparable talent, and you might be right, but that isn't the same as what other teams in the league perceive him as for the purposes of a trade.
Foppberg
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I'm hardly a Barrie hater, was not happy with the trade at the time (mostly because I just love the guy). But the value of him versus G isn't that different, especially when you count Girard's sweet contract.
I don't agree in the slightest. Barrie was coming off back-to-back career high seasons, Sammy just got through one of the roughest of his career where all his numbers took a nosedive, following a playoff series where he shouldered a monster load of the blame. You keep saying he's got a "sweet" contract and you may be right, but I argue the rest of the league does not see it that way.
And the second part of my argument, you or someone else needs to point out to me where this 2nd line center a la Kadri is sitting around waiting to be plucked off. Maybe Seattle could be convinced to part with a Yanni Gourde, I don't know, but that's not really a 2nd line center then.
The only team I could see paying top dollar for Sammy at this stage is Montreal, and unless you want Christian Dvorak as the Kadri replacement, I don't think that's a likely scenario.
Richard Doll
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I am not saying this is the guy we go for, just conversation, but how much is Ryan Nugent-Hopkins lack of production due to being stuck behind the big 2? I don't follow him, so honestly don't know.
Kadri had 2 40 point seasons in a row when before we brought him in, because he was stuck behind the Toronto big 2.
There may be others in similar situations.
*Edit* I thought Hopkins played third line, but looks like he is second line C in Edmonton.
Kadri had 2 40 point seasons in a row when before we brought him in, because he was stuck behind the Toronto big 2.
There may be others in similar situations.
*Edit* I thought Hopkins played third line, but looks like he is second line C in Edmonton.
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Richard88
John 3:16
- Jun 29, 2019
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Not necessarily. They simply have to ensure that they're selective about who to give term to this off-season.
For example, if any external forward addition in the ~$5m range would only be for one year that would clear that capspace in 2023 and maintain flexibility. JT Miller would be perfect.
Alternatively they can choose to go cheap in net instead of doing a $5m+ deal for a starter so they maintain cap flexibility in goal beyond 2023.
Kaut is probably the likeliest guy to be involved in a prospect swap trade this off-season.
I see very little reason to not offer Helm and Cogs cheap 1-year deals to come back. System depth up front is going to be a problem and I’d rather make some of the younger depth guys earn it rather than pencil them into the line-up. They can still skate and having them be so trustworthy on the PK saves the legs of our bigger guns for other duties.
An underrated repercussion of this Cup run is just how desirable a destination Colorado is going to be for any and all starting goaltenders on the open and trade markets. The world just watched this team absolutely dominate their way to a Cup despite some historically bad goaltending. Could be quite the sweepstakes if they let Darcy walk.
BigCKU
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- Aug 16, 2020
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Priorities to me
1. Extend MacK
2. Re-sign Lehkonen (although can take their time because he is RFA)
3. Re-sign Nuke.
4. Re-sign Manson
5. Trade Girard with picks and/or other players for 2C.
6. Either re-sign Kuemper because he didn’t get much on the market or find his replacement.
7. Fill out bottom 6 and 5-7 Dmen.
Would love to keep Kadri but don’t think we can afford him. Probably have to let Bura walk as well as he’ll command more money than what you should pay a guy who you’re planning to put on the 3rd line.
1. Extend MacK
2. Re-sign Lehkonen (although can take their time because he is RFA)
3. Re-sign Nuke.
4. Re-sign Manson
5. Trade Girard with picks and/or other players for 2C.
6. Either re-sign Kuemper because he didn’t get much on the market or find his replacement.
7. Fill out bottom 6 and 5-7 Dmen.
Would love to keep Kadri but don’t think we can afford him. Probably have to let Bura walk as well as he’ll command more money than what you should pay a guy who you’re planning to put on the 3rd line.
Belgican
Registered User
I would like to keep Nuke, Lekko, Kadri, Helm, Cogs, Manson, could we keep all of them ? I guess we can if you loose DK, Girard and Bura.
Richard88
John 3:16
- Jun 29, 2019
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I agree that it would be possible to do what you're saying, but it just seems completely out of line with how the Avs operate.
Signing external players to multi year deals in UFA to all but signal to popular guys already on the roster that they're getting traded within 12 months no matter what doesn't seem like something Sakic or MacFarland would do.
That would probably also fly in the face of the culture they've fomented where players tall about how tight nit the locker room is.
Seems more likely that they'll try to swing another trade like the Saad deal where they fill a top 6 spot without committing long term.
Barrie may or may not have been a better player than Girard now, but he was a pending UFA and that in and of itself would make his trade value lower than Girard who is cost controlled at a good caphit for 5 more prime years.
Yeah there's really not much in the trade market in terms of good 2Cs at the moment.
It's partly why I think if you see a Girard trade it could end up being a futures deal instead. Something where you get a top tier prospect + 1st round pick, and another asset.
I think there's possibly more Centers available for futures heavy packages rather then a straight up hockey trade of sorts. Obviously we know JT Miller is one guy available, but I also think guys like Nick Schmaltz, Yanni Gourde, Dylan Larkin, and possibly PLD or Scheifele... Those sort of options are more likely to be available in a futures deal IMO.
If you could trade Girard to LA for example at the draft for say LA 2022 1st + Walker + Kupari.... And then turn around and flip Kupari + the LA 1st to Seattle for Gourde, I think that would be a solid route to go.
But as I said earlier, I think the Avs will wait one more year before making that tough decision on Defense.
It's partly why I think if you see a Girard trade it could end up being a futures deal instead. Something where you get a top tier prospect + 1st round pick, and another asset.
I think there's possibly more Centers available for futures heavy packages rather then a straight up hockey trade of sorts. Obviously we know JT Miller is one guy available, but I also think guys like Nick Schmaltz, Yanni Gourde, Dylan Larkin, and possibly PLD or Scheifele... Those sort of options are more likely to be available in a futures deal IMO.
If you could trade Girard to LA for example at the draft for say LA 2022 1st + Walker + Kupari.... And then turn around and flip Kupari + the LA 1st to Seattle for Gourde, I think that would be a solid route to go.
But as I said earlier, I think the Avs will wait one more year before making that tough decision on Defense.
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