WJC: 2021 Team USA Roster Talk

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Because there aren't many good US players in the 2001 crop. I notice you didn't exclude Lafreniere. I think Byfield and Perfetti could have made that team. Certainly Dach, Lafreniere, Bowen and McMichael would have. Is there a comparable set absent from the US team?

Anyway, it's a shame that HF US fans know more about the sport than those that run the program. When Canada loses that's the consensus opinion here too (and I don't buy it then either).

I think a lot of complaints about coaching are usually not being able to accept your team isn’t very good, but I can’t think of very many successful teams in any sport where teams have success playing their lesser players more minutes over their best players. It’s such common sense that I think it has to be pointed out.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

2021 eligible I think you mean

I didn’t phrase it well. He’s a week too old for the 2022 draft.

 

[blindpass]

I think a lot of complaints about coaching are usually not being able to accept your team isn’t very good, but I can’t think of very many successful teams in any sport where teams have success playing their lesser players more minutes over their best players. It’s such common sense that I think it has to be pointed out.

Presumably he felt the ones getting the ice time were the better ones. Naive observers tend to only notice offensive contributions.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Presumably he felt the ones getting the ice time were the better ones. Naive observers tend to only notice offensive contributions.

And he delivered one of the worst results in recent program history, so we now can say his opinion was worthless.

What am I missing here? Is Turcotte not a good defensive player? Do you think Robertson and Wahlstrom bring demonstrably more defensively than Zegras and Caufield?

 

[blindpass]

And he delivered one of the worst results in recent program history, so we now can say his opinion was worthless.

What am I missing here? Is Turcotte not a good defensive player? Do you think Robertson and Wahlstrom bring demonstrably more defensively than Zegras and Caufield?

I honestly don't know.

In broad strokes your logic seems to be this:
They should have won because they are the best.
They didn't win so something other than their not being the best is to blame.
Hunt for cause.

I think you are taking the first premise too seriously.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

And he delivered one of the worst results in recent program history, so we now can say his opinion was worthless.

What am I missing here? Is Turcotte not a good defensive player? Do you think Robertson and Wahlstrom bring demonstrably more defensively than Zegras and Caufield?

Zegras is a centre so presumably Wahlstrom and Robertson aren't taking his ice time regardless and from what I have seen yes Robertson is better defensively then Caufield. Seems like odd players to pick out anyways as realistically all 4 should have been in the teams top 6.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Zegras is a centre so presumably Wahlstrom and Robertson aren't taking his ice time regardless and from what I have seen yes Robertson is better defensively then Caufield. Seems like odd players to pick out anyways as realistically all 4 should have been in the teams top 6.

Zegras is a center, but if he’s not going to be used at center and we have to judge him as a winger, I don’t think discussion of his merits for a role stops because it’s not his natural position.

I’m certainly not picking on Wahlstrom or Robertson. I’m making the point that saying they were there instead of others because of defense doesn’t make much sense.

 

[gotyournose]

I didn’t phrase it well. He’s a week too old for the 2022 draft.

Well he's eligible for 21 than, where is going to go I wonder?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Well he's eligible for 21 than, where is going to go I wonder?

I suspect top five.

 

[Cellee]

Judd Caulfield is a different guy, which is why they're spelled differently.

 

[Leviathan899]

Caufield appears twice in that lineup.. meh

That’s Cole Caufield and Judd Caulfield.

 

[Leviathan899]

Which team do you think is the favorite?

Let’s go with Canada, russia, Finland, or Sweden. Any of those teams could easily be better than the American team. Just too many variables and things that can change. Nobody would predict Daws and Hofer would be Canada’s top 2 goalies a year out.

 

[blindpass]

Best lineup

Robertson-Turcotte-Kaliyev
Boldy-Zegras-Caufield
Brisson-Bordeleau-Brink
Beniers-Beecher-Caulfield
Mastrosimone

Top Replacements: Farinacci, Lindmark, Farrell, Rolston, Kuntar, Smilanic, Stranges, Berard, Peterson, Biondi, Colangelo, Schingoethe, Janicke, Lucius

York-Thrun
Johnson-Helleson
Sanderson-Skinner
Struble

Top Replacements: Lacombe, Miller, Reid, Powell, Kleven, Truscott, Faber, Hughes, Gallagher, Hreschuk, Fensore

Knight
Wolf
Commesso

Top Replacements: Rowe, Haider, Basse, Tynan, Grannan

I think Turcotte, Caufield and Zegras could all be in the NHL next season. If I was to guess, I'd say Turcotte and Caufield aren't back, and Zegras is. I'm not going to mention Hughes because if he didn't return this year, he's not returning next year.

This team, in theory, should be the best team, but if we get a bad coach again, a repeat of this tournament could happen.

3 Canadians on that team, that will help

Who are the 3 Canadians?

Bordeleau, Sanderson and Brisson. Maybe others I'm not aware of.

The US certainly benefits from the fact that so many NHL teams are in the US so many children of NHLers (and other levels of pro hockey) end up being born there. Turcotte would be another one, though he doesn't have dual citizenship like the other three.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Let’s go with Canada, russia, Finland, or Sweden. Any of those teams could easily be better than the American team. Just too many variables and things that can change. Nobody would predict Daws and Hofer would be Canada’s top 2 goalies a year out.

The point you are missing is that this is viewed as a 19 year old tournament, and the way that the favorite is usually judged a year out is to look at which team has the best 19 year old crop. If you look at the talent of the 19 year old crops, the Americans appear to have a clear advantage in this area.

No one has said that there isn't a range of possibilities that doesn't have the Americans as the favorite when the tournament starts.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Bordeleau, Sanderson and Brisson. Maybe others I'm not aware of.

The US certainly benefits from the fact that so many NHL teams are in the US so many children of NHLers (and other levels of pro hockey) end up being born there. Turcotte would be another one, though he doesn't have dual citizenship like the other three.

Those are the only three I can think of.

I think it's a reach to claim Turcotte as Canadian. Alfie grew up in the USA. I don't know about his mother's side of the family, but most Americans or Canadians with an Italian or Irish ancestor from their grandparent and earlier ancestors in their family aren't considered Italian or Irish as opposed to Americans or Canadians. There aren't that many people nowadays in either country that are third-generation born in that country. Turcotte shouldn't be claimed as Canadian because his grandfather was Canadian. Sweden doesn't claim all these Minnesotan NHL'ers that had Swedish grandparents.

 

[blindpass]

Those are the only three I can think of.

I think it's a reach to claim Turcotte as Canadian. Alfie grew up in the USA. I don't know about his mother's side of the family, but most Americans or Canadians with an Italian or Irish ancestor from their grandparent and earlier ancestors in their family aren't considered Italian or Irish as opposed to Americans or Canadians. There aren't that many people nowadays in either country that are third-generation born in that country. Turcotte shouldn't be claimed as Canadian because his grandfather was Canadian. Sweden doesn't claim all these Minnesotan NHL'ers that had Swedish grandparents.

Fair enough, though it is a case of immigration for hockey, just with his grandfather, not father, so your Minnesota Swedes comparison stretches it the other way. His father played for Canada. <-- Incorrect (Thanks @Pavel Buchnevich)

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Because there aren't many good US players in the 2001 crop. I notice you didn't exclude Lafreniere. I think Byfield and Perfetti could have made that team. Certainly Dach, Lafreniere, Bowen and McMichael would have. Is there a comparable set absent from the US team?

Anyway, it's a shame that HF US fans know more about the sport than those that run the program. When Canada loses that's the consensus opinion here too (and I don't buy it then either).

So the greatest draft year ever produced by the USMNTDP has talent issues... I mean I get if you don't want to install them as favorites, a lot of that also depends on who is available which is hard to say now. But to take a run at the 2001 US birth year just seems pretty silly.

I do think Luke Hughes being on this team is pretty important for the back-end. But this group will have a lot of drive, they are the best collection of talent the USA has produced, they will be under pressure to deliver on those expectations. They need to fix the coaching, but this group as 19 year olds should be pretty motivated to right this wrong.

The 02's are pretty weak though, so a loss of Turcotte or Zegras to the pro ranks might hurt this team a lot.

 

[blindpass]

So the greatest draft year ever produced by the USMNTDP has talent issues... I mean I get if you don't want to install them as favorites, a lot of that also depends on who is available which is hard to say now. But to take a run at the 2001 US birth year just seems pretty silly.

I do think Luke Hughes being on this team is pretty important for the back-end. But this group will have a lot of drive, they are the best collection of talent the USA has produced, they will be under pressure to deliver on those expectations. They need to fix the coaching, but this group as 19 year olds should be pretty motivated to right this wrong.

The 02's are pretty weak though, so a loss of Turcotte or Zegras to the pro ranks might hurt this team a lot.

I'm not one of the ones questioning the talent. I just think it's arrogant to ignore the talent on the other teams. Next year will be the best measure of the '01s. I don't think they end up THE favorites then either. That's pretty rare these days, there's too much parity.

Having a bunch of high picks doesn't necessarily translate to dominance. Having elite ones more often does. The Matthews team was better.

Edit: changed '00s to '01s

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm not one of the ones questioning the talent. I just think it's arrogant to ignore the talent on the other teams. Next year will be the best measure of the '00s. I don't think they end up THE favorites then either. That's pretty rare these days, there's too much parity.

Having a bunch of high picks doesn't necessarily translate to dominance. Having elite ones more often does. The Matthews team was better.

The 00's will be 20 years old and ineligible for the tournament... So what?

The Matthews team wasn't as deep as this team is likely to be. Turcotte and Zegras if they are there as 19 year olds will be a pretty lethal one two punch down the middle. Not often you have two top 10 picks in their 19 year old age groups at this.

There is a decent chance the only guys missing from this age group is Jack Hughes. That would be huge. Also it isn't just USA fans that have touted this group for years. Watch last years draft, I think that is McKenzie, Button and Pierre waxing poetically about it being the greatest American draft ever. We will have to see how it comes together, but yeah I am not real worried as a USA fan, switch the coach and hopefully a bunch of the big guns are available. I don't expect much to make the team in the way of the 02 class, but I think that is fine.

If you want no favorite talk fine. I preferred Russia this year, but understood Canada being installed there and frankly didn't have the Americans as a favorite thinking this year would be more of a building for next year with the key 01 players. Was surprised at how misused those guys were by the coach, but it was still a valuable experience. I think they will be better for it next year and again I think the quarterfinals bounce is probably a big driving force for a lot of these guys, especially after Askarov stole the U-18s, my guess is you're going to have a group that is more bought in on top of all the talent they have.

 

[blindpass]

The 00's will be 20 years old and ineligible for the tournament... So what?

Sorry, I meant '01s. I'm more used to thinking in terms of draft class than birth year.

 

[Evanc23]

Is Pinto too old for next year? Just curious why nobody has him on their team.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Fair enough, though it is a case of immigration for hockey, just with his grandfather, not father, so your Minnesota Swedes comparison stretches it the other way. His father played for Canada.

Alfie played for the USA.

Alfie Turcotte at eliteprospects.com

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Is Pinto too old for next year? Just curious why nobody has him on their team.

Yes, he's a late born 2000.

 

[blindpass]

Alfie played for the USA.

Alfie Turcotte at eliteprospects.com

Yep, my mistake.

 

[clevelandcane]

I think it's being understated how important chemistry is for these tournaments. You're throwing together a bunch of kids who don't play together. The talent margin is mitigated by the fact that the tournament is so short. Chemistry is what matters and I didn't see a lot of that from the US this year.

Here's to a better finish next year.