Confirmed with Link: 2021 Signing NOT 2022 Yet - TOR signed F Ondrej Kase [1 year, 1.25M]

[kb]

why are you guys talking about ltir and retirement caphits for a guy with a 1yr $1.25m caphit?

I won't say it......I won't say it..........

 

[Stephen]

why are you guys talking about ltir and retirement caphits for a guy with a 1yr $1.25m caphit?

The retirement cap hit talk wouldn't make sense but the LTIR idea Mess threw out there is actually not a bad idea.

What To Do Now With Boston's Ondrej Kase

Kase's possible retirement has been discussed while he was still sidelined as a Bruin, so the idea that he might benefit from a long term recovery, rehabilitation, whatever isn't a novel concept. Under this scenario, Toronto could re-spend another $1.25 million elsewhere and LTIR Kase, buying him time to recover, resting from game action until April 2022. At that point we could have a healthy Kase and a Player X.

Is it far fetched? Maybe. But it would be a good example of how MLSE could use their money to try and gain an advantage here.

 

[zeke]

The retirement cap hit talk wouldn't make sense but the LTIR idea Mess threw out there is actually not a bad idea.

What To Do Now With Boston's Ondrej Kase

Kase's possible retirement has been discussed while he was still sidelined as a Bruin, so the idea that he might benefit from a long term recovery, rehabilitation, whatever isn't a novel concept. Under this scenario, Toronto could re-spend another $1.25 million elsewhere and LTIR Kase, buying him time to recover, resting from game action until April 2022. At that point we could have a healthy Kase and a Player X.

Is it far fetched? Maybe. But it would be a good example of how MLSE could use their money to try and gain an advantage here.

it's $1.25m.

500k over league minimum.

 

[Stephen]

it's $1.25m.

500k over league minimum.

Yeah, in the end we're talking about marginal little advantages, not a franchise changing decisions. Maybe you can get another unwanted player like a Tomas Tatar or pony up a little more for a Jani Hakanpaa with the money saved, and you get Kase in at the playoffs.

The haggling over the Hyman sign and trade with Edmonton showed us how $500K can be a valuable asset you can't just give away.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Can't Kase be buried with the Marlies without a cap penalty?

 

[saltming]

Nope that is for only contracts signed for players over 35.

However in this case Kase has a guaranteed contract now and if he can't play the Leafs can just place him on LTIR and replace him with a healthy player essentially overlapping his cap cost. Kase wouldn't retire because then he wouldn't be able to collect his $1.25 mil.

When Boston didn't qualify him because he only played in 9 games and missed 80 (including 25 playoff games over 2 seasons) there was talk he was considering retirement due to his healthy issues. Traumatic brain injuries are a serious issue.

From the latest reports like the one I posted above it says Dubas convinced Kase to sign with Leafs as they have a real strong medical and development staff and are willing investing a lot of time and effort into him to get his health back through rehab and eventually back on the ice feeling he has the talent to make that investment worthwhile gamble.

Let's hope the sports science team knows something to turn his health woes around. If he doesn't start the season for this reason I'm good

 

[hamzarocks]

Can't Kase be buried with the Marlies without a cap penalty?

What is a Buried Contract?

Teams do not receive full cap relief when a player on a one-way NHL contract is reassigned to the American Hockey League, or is loaned to a team in another professional league.
The players salary cap hit, minus the sum of the minimum NHL salary for the respective season and $375,000, still counts towards the team’s salary cap total.
The cap hit relief is therefore equal to the minimum salary of the respective season + $375,000:

• 2014-15: $550,000 + $375,000 = $925,000
• 2015-16: $575,000 + $375,000 = $950,000
• 2016-17: $575,000 + $375,000 = $950,000
• 2017-18: $650,000 + $375,000 = $1,025,000
• 2018-19: $650,000 + $375,000 = $1,025,000
• 2019-20: $700,000 + $375,000 = $1,075,000
• 2020-21: $700,000 + $375,000 = $1,075,000
• 2021-22: $750,000 + $375,000 = $1,125,000
• 2022-23: $750,000 + $375,000 = $1,125,000
• 2023-24: $775,000 + $375,000 = $1,150,000
• 2024-25: $775,000 + $375,000 = $1,150,000
• 2025-26: $775,000 + $375,000 = $1,150,000

This was from capfriendly. So for 2021-2022 the max AAV which can be buried is 1.125M which is basically all of Kase's deal

 

[Stephen]

Let's hope the sports science team knows something to turn his health woes around. If he doesn't start the season for this reason I'm good

The first preference would be to be able to use him for most of the season. Think the Leafs would like him to be this years version of a Lupul or Galchenyuk.

 

[Racer88]

If a player retires, their cap hit is removed entirely, unless they are on a 35+ contract, or there are cap recapture penalties - neither of which are relevant to Kase. Most of the LTIR players you're thinking of aren't "technically" retired.

Thx for the clarification. I wasn’t 100% sure

 

[kb]

Yeah, in the end we're talking about marginal little advantages, not a franchise changing decisions. Maybe you can get another unwanted player like a Tomas Tatar or pony up a little more for a Jani Hakanpaa with the money saved, and you get Kase in at the playoffs.

The haggling over the Hyman sign and trade with Edmonton showed us how $500K can be a valuable asset you can't just give away.

You can bury him.

LTIR is the probably the stupidest possible idea. It takes away your entire ability to accrue cap space for deadline deals - all over $125k of non-buriable salary.

 

[kb]

Can't Kase be buried with the Marlies without a cap penalty?

Pretty close to it.

This whole LTIR reasoning is ridiculous. Give away any chance for accruing cap space at the deadline deals over $125k?

Actually, cancel that. Ridiculous doesn't even scratch the surface here.

 

[Stephen]

You can bury him.

LTIR is the stupidest possible idea. You cannot accrue cap space for deadline deals.

I'm not sure the criticism over Mess' idea is quite getting the concept. The idea isn't what if Kase is injured and you have to bury him. The idea is to not use him at all.

The main idea would be turning Kase' medical condition into a LTIR poor man's Kucherov. We secure the player in the organization and we stash him away for the regular season with the ability to heal up and no pressure to do anything in the regular season. Then he would be activated for Game 1 in the playoffs as if he was a deadline acquisition.

In the mean time, we go out and get someone else, let's say Tomas Tatar, and Tatar is the guy you pay at $1.25 million for the 82 games.

You're basically reserving your deadline player ahead of time.

 

[kb]

I'm not sure the criticism over Mess' idea is quite getting the concept. The idea isn't what if Kase is injured and you have to bury him. The idea is to not use him at all.

The main idea would be turning Kase' medical condition into a LTIR poor man's Kucherov. We secure the player in the organization and we stash him away for the regular season with the ability to heal up and no pressure to do anything in the regular season. Then he would be activated for Game 1 in the playoffs as if he was a deadline acquisition.

In the mean time, we go out and get someone else, let's say Tomas Tatar, and Tatar is the guy you pay at $1.25 million for the 82 games.

You're basically reserving your deadline player ahead of time.

So instead of accruing cap space and having many options at the deadline, you take that ALL away and hamstring your club and it's ability to make any moves at all because it will have to be dollars in=dollars out. What if 3 D men are injured come deadline time and you wanted to pick up one or 2? Can't do it because of Kase on LTIR. Just think of how utterly stupid that idea is.

If Tavares and his cap hit were out on LTIR for the year, then sure. But what are you getting by putting Kase on LTIR and playing a slightly worse player in his place?

Again, people who even entertain this notion are not thinking at all.

 

[Stephen]

So instead of accruing cap space and having many options at the deadline, you take that ALL away and hamstring your club and it's ability to make any moves at all because it will have to be dollars in=dollars out. What if 3 D men are injured come deadline time and you wanted to pick up one or 2? Can't do it because of Kase on LTIR. Just think of how utterly stupid that idea is.

If Tavares and his cap hit were out on LTIR for the year, then sure. But what are you getting by putting Kase on LTIR and playing a slightly worse player in his place?

Again, people who even entertain this notion are not thinking at all.

A team with marginal cap space is necessarily going to have limited options to maneuver whether in the summer or during the season and the acrural of cap space is but one strategy to consider (with the hidden cost of draft picks and futures that would need to be spent acquiring some deadline help).

There's also nothing to suggest that the Leafs couldn't go and overstock on a defenseman now if you're concerned about being thin at that position.

So understanding that we're just talking about the very fringes of the roster and different ways to squeeze a little bit more out of nothing, let's tone down on all the stupid talk.

 

[zeke]

A team with marginal cap space is necessarily going to have limited options to maneuver whether in the summer or during the season and the acrural of cap space is but one strategy to consider (with the hidden cost of draft picks and futures that would need to be spent acquiring some deadline help).

There's also nothing to suggest that the Leafs couldn't go and overstock on a defenseman now if you're concerned about being thin at that position.

So understanding that we're just talking about the very fringes of the roster and different ways to squeeze a little bit more out of nothing, let's tone down on all the stupid talk.

But he's right. Ltir locks in your cap. That means you can't accrue any wiggle room for the deadline.

leafs were smack dab on the cap limit all year but still managed to accrue enough space to make deals for big salaries. They couldn't have done that if a guy was on ltir all year.

And to do that for a $1.25m player? Makes no sense.

This could only have been a Mess idea.

 

[Stephen]

But he's right. Ltir locks in your cap. That means you can't accrue any wiggle room for the deadline.

leafs were smack dab on the cap limit all year but still managed to accrue enough space to make deals for big salaries. They couldn't have done that if a guy was on ltir all year.

And to do that for a $1.25m player? Makes no sense.

This could only have been a Mess idea.

I don't think it's a conventional idea or likely to happen but it is something to think about. Since the cap accrual method probably results in a deadline trade involving futures going out the door, doing your off season pre shop allows you to protect the system and (over)paying later.

Granted you don't have as much flexibility many months out and that would be a major strike against this approach, but on the other, other hand if an injury scenario requires help to be brought in, it's reasonable to assume a bigger ticket player would have missed time and you would be accruing cap space anyway.

So again, we're talking about out of the box and marginal roster optimization, really doesn't deserve to be dunked on.

 

[Mess]

A team with marginal cap space is necessarily going to have limited options to maneuver whether in the summer or during the season and the acrural of cap space is but one strategy to consider (with the hidden cost of draft picks and futures that would need to be spent acquiring some deadline help).

There's also nothing to suggest that the Leafs couldn't go and overstock on a defenseman now if you're concerned about being thin at that position.

So understanding that we're just talking about the very fringes of the roster and different ways to squeeze a little bit more out of nothing, let's tone down on all the stupid talk.

2 takeaways here ..

1) Some Leaf fans either don't understand LTIR, or most importantly here either refuse to acknowledge that Kase is currently injured.

Nobody is tossing a healthy player on IR, as Kase is currently suffering from his 5th concussion and can't play even if he wanted to. If that condition doesn't change once Leafs season begins then LTIR is the only option for Leafs. That is what long-term injury reserve is intended for, to put an injured player on it, and then replace him with a healthy one at the same cap hit or less.

Kase spent all of 2020-21 on LTIR with Boston except the first 2 games and then missing 53 regular season and all the playoffs thereafter 111 days of 116 days officially on IR. (Boston Bruins Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps)

Bruins attempted a slow rehab all year and tried to bring him back for the playoffs, he dressed for 1 game lasted only a few shifts and was shutdown for the year the report said was a complete setback and acknowledged "that they were back to square one when it came to Kase’s health after he failed to make it back on the ice for any practices or even solo skates". and this was late May 2021.

The bad news (beyond the obvious) of those setbacks is that Kase and the Bruins did absolutely everything they could to make Kase’s jump back into the fire of NHL game action a smooth one. They didn’t put a timetable of any sort on him, and Kase was upfront about how he felt. And, still, his return lasted all of 6:49 minutes. Unfortunately, Kase’s Bruin career looks bleak. Regardless of all of these scenarios, the biggest priority is Kase’s health. It would be quite unfortunate to see him walk away from his five-year career, but his health supersedes all playing time.

 

[zeke]

2 takeaways here ..

1) Some Leaf fans either don't understand LTIR,

That would be you, Mess.

r
Kase spent all of 2020-21 on LTIR with Boston except the first 2 games missing 53 regular season and all the playoffs thereafter 111 days of 116 days officially on LTIR. (Boston Bruins Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps)

As anyone who clicks on your link can see, Boston not only never put Kase on LTIR last year, but put nobody on LTIR all year, using $0 dollars of LTIR. This enabled them to accrue enough capspace to land the likes of Hall at the deadline.

I will show you where you can see these things in the link you gave us:

 

[kb]

2 takeaways here ..

1) Some Leaf fans either don't understand LTIR, or most importantly here either refuse to acknowledge that Kase is currently injured.

Nobody is tossing a healthy player on IR, as Kase is currently suffering from his 5th concussion and can't play even if he wanted to. If that condition doesn't change once Leafs season begins then LTIR is the only option for Leafs. That is what long-term injury reserve is intended for, to put an injured player on it, and then replace him with a healthy one at the same cap hit or less.

Kase spent all of 2020-21 on LTIR with Boston except the first 2 games and then missing 53 regular season and all the playoffs thereafter 111 days of 116 days officially on IR. (Boston Bruins Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps)

Bruins attempted a slow rehab all year and tried to bring him back for the playoffs, he dressed for 1 game lasted only a few shifts and was shutdown for the year the report said was a complete setback and acknowledged "that they were back to square one when it came to Kase’s health after he failed to make it back on the ice for any practices or even solo skates". and this was late May 2021.

The bad news (beyond the obvious) of those setbacks is that Kase and the Bruins did absolutely everything they could to make Kase’s jump back into the fire of NHL game action a smooth one. They didn’t put a timetable of any sort on him, and Kase was upfront about how he felt. And, still, his return lasted all of 6:49 minutes. Unfortunately, Kase’s Bruin career looks bleak. Regardless of all of these scenarios, the biggest priority is Kase’s health. It would be quite unfortunate to see him walk away from his five-year career, but his health supersedes all playing time.

The more posts on something that clearly is not understood, the more people will realize that goes for every single post. You don't understand the ramifications to a team of putting a player on LTIR. Note that Kucherov and the Leafs prior situation were $10 million on LTIR, not $1 million. That is plain dumb of the team to do that.

Kase was signed to play, Ritchie said that the fans will be surprised by him. If he doesn't play, he's not going on LTIR unless it's the last and only possible move.

 

[Tarmore]

Send him down to start the year, then declare him injured. He is on a one way (I think) he wouldn't fight it. That way the team can still acquire cap space and he can rehab until 100% when he is ready he can even play with the Marlies to get ready in game shape.

I'm sure there are rules against this because it makes to much sense.

 

[LeafChief]

2 takeaways here ..

1) Some Leaf fans either don't understand LTIR, or most importantly here either refuse to acknowledge that Kase is currently injured.

Nobody is tossing a healthy player on IR, as Kase is currently suffering from his 5th concussion and can't play even if he wanted to. If that condition doesn't change once Leafs season begins then LTIR is the only option for Leafs. That is what long-term injury reserve is intended for, to put an injured player on it, and then replace him with a healthy one at the same cap hit or less.

Kase spent all of 2020-21 on LTIR with Boston except the first 2 games and then missing 53 regular season and all the playoffs thereafter 111 days of 116 days officially on IR. (Boston Bruins Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps)

Bruins attempted a slow rehab all year and tried to bring him back for the playoffs, he dressed for 1 game lasted only a few shifts and was shutdown for the year the report said was a complete setback and acknowledged "that they were back to square one when it came to Kase’s health after he failed to make it back on the ice for any practices or even solo skates". and this was late May 2021.

The bad news (beyond the obvious) of those setbacks is that Kase and the Bruins did absolutely everything they could to make Kase’s jump back into the fire of NHL game action a smooth one. They didn’t put a timetable of any sort on him, and Kase was upfront about how he felt. And, still, his return lasted all of 6:49 minutes. Unfortunately, Kase’s Bruin career looks bleak. Regardless of all of these scenarios, the biggest priority is Kase’s health. It would be quite unfortunate to see him walk away from his five-year career, but his health supersedes all playing time.

You don't understand LTIR.

Stop deleting posts that prove you to be incorrect.

 

[Mess]

Send him down to start the year, then declare him injured. He is on a one way (I think) he wouldn't fight it. That way the team can still acquire cap space and he can rehab until 100% when he is ready he can even play with the Marlies to get ready in game shape.

I'm sure there are rules against this because it makes to much sense.

NHL waivers to send a player down, so he could be claimed if another team wants to take the chance and the risk he will return eventually to 100% health.

 

[MattySnipes]

We played Ottawa and Montreal like 18 times
Two teams that can't score and Carey Price didn't even play in half of them

We played Patterson less Vancouver
We played Calgary with Monahan and Winnipeg without Laine

People don't realize how easy NHL had made it for us last year and somehow found a way to mess things up

Agreed. Such a great chance, Montreal made the most of it, good on them.

Tbh, this is first summer where I have pretty much ignored free agency. Leafs really broke my heart this past season and I'm still not over it. That's why I don't care about these signings like Ritchie, Kase, Kampf, Bunting, etc.

The way this team is setup, it will live and die off of Matthews and Marner, etc. Fact of matter is, they were absolute shit in playoffs and 10 million dollar goalie + f***ing Danault shut them down. I hope they both took a long look in the mirror.

They have a lot to prove still. Sucks that they're not signed for much longer though. Just gotta enjoy whatever time is left. Whether that's regular season success only or not.

Hope you're enjoying the summer Fahad.

 

[saltming]

The first preference would be to be able to use him for most of the season. Think the Leafs would like him to be this years version of a Lupul or Galchenyuk.

As long as he can be healthy is really the important thing for me. A full season and playoffs would be a dream but I would take half a season and playoffs all day evryday

 

[Fonzieleaf]

Hopefully he doesn’t turn out to be a Lupul. A piece of glass but dynamite when healthy.