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WJC: 2021 groups

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FinPanda said:
I love that we are in the same group as Canada. I can listen Gord in every Finnish game.
Click to expand...

His knowledge of the history of international hockey is unparalleled amongst play by play guys.

I’m hoping Lambert plays at next years event. It’s in my home Province, so I’ll be attending lots of the games in both cities.
 
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Some ideas I have are these.

1. The Czech Republic, Finland, Russia, Sweden, the U.S., and Canada play in each WJHC as the resident teams in perpetuity.

2. Add Switzerland and Germany to the above 6 for automatic participation on an annual basis.

3. Add 2 new spots, 1 in each pool, to allow for a bit more competition. 2 pools of 6 teams that would make up a 12-team field.

4. With the Big 6 automatically making the tournament each year, mandate that each of those teams get to play in the opposite pools each year(i.e. Canada plays in Group A in odd-numbered years, and B in even-numbered years).

It might be time for the World Juniors to be expanded that way anyway. Bring a bit more spice into the tournament.

=P
 
I'm most interested in the Swiss/Slovak/Germany games... those will be great.

German's won't have Bokk and I'd put Seider at 50/50 (I think he'll be in Detroit).
 
Pretty similar groups to this year. Canada and Sweden switch sides, while the promoted team gets an impossible task, the team who stayed up the prior year gets the easier side. Germany being rewarded for staying up going from the tough side to the easier group. Depending on who they get next year they could finish as high as 3rd, maybe even 2nd in their group though Finland should be strong next year. That's the interesting group for me. I'm thinking Slovakia is 5th there but who knows. Austria has Marco Rossi assuming he's not NHL bound but that'll be a tough ask for them to do anything in their group. I think this is the year Sweden's streak ends. The Americans 2001's are really talented. I know I'm going to offend some Slovak posters with this prediction but I like upsets, this age group was relegated in the U18s too, sue me.

Early predictions:

USA
Sweden
Russia
Czech Republic
Austria

Canada
Finland
Germany
Switzerland
Slovakia

AUT def SVK

USA def SUI
GER def SWE
FIN def RUS
CAN def CZE

FIN def CAN
USA def GER

USA def FIN
CAN def GER

1. USA
2. FIN
3. CAN
4. GER
5. SWE
6. RUS
7. SUI
8. CZE
9. AUT
10. SVK
 
RaginRonic said:
Some ideas I have are these.

1. The Czech Republic, Finland, Russia, Sweden, the U.S., and Canada play in each WJHC as the resident teams in perpetuity.

2. Add Switzerland and Germany to the above 6 for automatic participation on an annual basis.

3. Add 2 new spots, 1 in each pool, to allow for a bit more competition. 2 pools of 6 teams that would make up a 12-team field.

4. With the Big 6 automatically making the tournament each year, mandate that each of those teams get to play in the opposite pools each year(i.e. Canada plays in Group A in odd-numbered years, and B in even-numbered years).

It might be time for the World Juniors to be expanded that way anyway. Bring a bit more spice into the tournament.

=P
Click to expand...

If you do that then you're making the same top 3 in pools every year. Say Canada, Finland, Sweden is in pool A in the first year. They all switch to pool but while Russia, USA, Czech Republic all switch it's the same groups top of the groups with a different letter. That seems like a weird thing to fix in place, which nobody would want.
 
RaginRonic said:
Some ideas I have are these.

1. The Czech Republic, Finland, Russia, Sweden, the U.S., and Canada play in each WJHC as the resident teams in perpetuity.

2. Add Switzerland and Germany to the above 6 for automatic participation on an annual basis.

3. Add 2 new spots, 1 in each pool, to allow for a bit more competition. 2 pools of 6 teams that would make up a 12-team field.

4. With the Big 6 automatically making the tournament each year, mandate that each of those teams get to play in the opposite pools each year(i.e. Canada plays in Group A in odd-numbered years, and B in even-numbered years).

It might be time for the World Juniors to be expanded that way anyway. Bring a bit more spice into the tournament.

=P
Click to expand...
I just want to thank you for including the Czechs and calling it a big 6. I love your idea!
 
Joe Zanussi said:
Will they play w the groups, if necessary, to put the USA and Canada together?
Click to expand...
FinPanda said:
I think they can change if they want to.
Click to expand...

There's a rule saying you can but I wonder if they have to have a verifiable reason to do it other than "we want to" or "it makes out group harder/easier" that the IIHF has to approve given it's only happened once and that was for a planned in advance outdoor game.

Like for instance this year if the Czechs said switch us with Sweden because we want an easy group, I bet there's something in place where the IIHF can reject that based on the grounds for the request. But if SVK was also in their group maybe saying switch SVK and X team so that SVK which is only a half hour away has their group too is more of a reason they might accept as a planned in advanced CZE group and SVK group for fanfare in both areans.

This is only a guess, but I suspect if Canada said we want to play the USA with nothing pre planned like the outdoor game I feel like it would be denied.
 
Canada4Gold said:
There's a rule saying you can but I wonder if they have to have a verifiable reason to do it other than "we want to" or "it makes out group harder/easier" that the IIHF has to approve given it's only happened once and that was for a planned in advance outdoor game.

Like for instance this year if the Czechs said switch us with Sweden because we want an easy group, I bet there's something in place where the IIHF can reject that based on the grounds for the request. But if SVK was also in their group maybe saying switch SVK and X team so that SVK which is only a half hour away has their group too is more of a reason they might accept.

This is only a guess, but I suspect if Canada said we want to play the USA with nothing pre planned like the outdoor game I feel like it would be denied.
Click to expand...
I would imagine that at the very least they have some provision that it has to be similar tiered nations switching places.
 
Canada4Gold said:
Pretty similar groups to this year. Canada and Sweden switch sides, while the promoted team gets an impossible task, the team who stayed up the prior year gets the easier side. Germany being rewarded for staying up going from the tough side to the easier group. Depending on who they get next year they could finish as high as 3rd, maybe even 2nd in their group though Finland should be strong next year. That's the interesting group for me. I'm thinking Slovakia is 5th there but who knows. Austria has Marco Rossi assuming he's not NHL bound but that'll be a tough ask for them to do anything in their group. I think this is the year Sweden's streak ends. The Americans 2001's are really talented. I know I'm going to offend some Slovak posters with this prediction but I like upsets, this age group was relegated in the U18s too, sue me.

Early predictions:

USA
Sweden
Russia
Czech Republic
Austria

Canada
Finland
Germany
Switzerland
Slovakia

AUT def SVK

USA def SUI
GER def SWE
FIN def RUS
CAN def CZE

FIN def CAN
USA def GER

USA def FIN
CAN def GER

1. USA
2. FIN
3. CAN
4. GER
5. SWE
6. RUS
7. SUI
8. CZE
9. AUT
10. SVK
Click to expand...

Thinking you have Germany quite a bit too high.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
I would imagine that at the very least they have some provision that it has to be similar tiered nations switching places.
Click to expand...

That's a fair point, I would imagine they group the teams into pairs 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8, 9/Promoted and you can only flip the pair, unless the game you're trying to achieve involves both teams in a pair. For example the 2018 switch Canada/USA was the 1/2 pair as they finished in those spots the prior year so the switch was actually Canada 2 with Sweden 4 which was the highest team other than USA that Canada could switch with.

If a Canada/USA NYE game got mandated for next year then I bet the only 2 options would probably be switching Canada 1 with Russia 2, or switching USA 6 with Switzerland 5.
 
snowkiddin said:
Thinking you have Germany quite a bit too high.
Click to expand...

I like upsets. I think they'll probably be favorites against the Swiss and Slovaks pending if they get all their players(Stutzle and/or Seider may be NHL bound). So the only real upset there is the big one over Sweden but it's not like a QF upset hasn't happened before.
 
That group is a real bummer for any Canada fans buying ticket packages. Need a USA game at least. I'm guessing something will be done to switch things up if possible.

Also, it seems like Canada and Sweden are never in the same group.
 
Canada is certainly in the easier group, but it's about time we stop thinking of the Czechs and Switzerland like it's 1999. It's 2020, Switzerland has at the bare minimum caught up to the CZE, who have also fallen well behind the other top 5. There is almost always going to be 3 of Canada, Sweden, USA, Russia, and Finland in one group, and 2 in the other.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
If you do that then you're making the same top 3 in pools every year. Say Canada, Finland, Sweden is in pool A in the first year. They all switch to pool but while Russia, USA, Czech Republic all switch it's the same groups top of the groups with a different letter. That seems like a weird thing to fix in place, which nobody would want.
Click to expand...

No....I meant something like this(going to use 3 examples here).

Year 1

Group A

CAN
SWE
CZE

Group B

USA
RUS
FIN

Year 2

Group A

SWE
CZE
USA

Group B

RUS
FIN
CAN

Year 3

Group A

FIN
CZE
RUS

Group B

USA
CAN
SWE

And that you keep rotating teams in and out like that. And like I said, for the Big 6, you can no longer have Groups of Death in any year...there must be only 3 major teams in a pool.

In terms of GER and SUI, same thing applies, but they're in their own pod, where they switch groups each year to join a different set of 'Big 3' in their pools.

As for the last 4 slots in a 12-team WJHC, it's all dependent on lower division results. And in terms of the relegation round, that only happens for the teams, except the Big 6, who finish in last place in each pool. If, somehow, a Big 6 team did finish last in a pool, then the 1st team above them who isn't a permanent team goes to relegation.

Do you guys see what I mean now? =P
 
RaginRonic said:
No....I meant something like this(going to use 3 examples here).

Year 1

Group A

CAN
SWE
CZE

Group B

USA
RUS
FIN

Year 2

Group A

SWE
CZE
USA

Group B

RUS
FIN
CAN

Year 3

Group A

FIN
CZE
RUS

Group B

USA
CAN
SWE

And that you keep rotating teams in and out like that. And like I said, for the Big 6, you can no longer have Groups of Death in any year...there must be only 3 major teams in a pool.

In terms of GER and SUI, same thing applies, but they're in their own pod, where they switch groups each year to join a different set of 'Big 3' in their pools.

As for the last 4 slots in a 12-team WJHC, it's all dependent on lower division results. And in terms of the relegation round, that only happens for the teams, except the Big 6, who finish in last place in each pool. If, somehow, a Big 6 team did finish last in a pool, then the 1st team above them who isn't a permanent team goes to relegation.

Do you guys see what I mean now? =P
Click to expand...

Oh ok, it sounded weird, saying the "each had to switch" each year, like that;s just going to create the same pools every year. Not sure I love SUI and GER being in different pools each year. It should be possible for everyone to play everyone in pool play. Not sure I like including Germany as a clear 8 anyway. They're going through a solid generation right now but 4 years ago this was Denmark. On average Germany is probably below Slovakia at least. Everything else I like though, 12 teams. I'd add when they go to that the winner of the D1A in December should immediately promote, it's a long time away from club teams but more fair that teams that promote get the good players they came up with a teams that go down have a chance to get back up for the next year immediately.
 
Canada4Gold said:
Pretty similar groups to this year. Canada and Sweden switch sides, while the promoted team gets an impossible task, the team who stayed up the prior year gets the easier side. Germany being rewarded for staying up going from the tough side to the easier group. Depending on who they get next year they could finish as high as 3rd, maybe even 2nd in their group though Finland should be strong next year. That's the interesting group for me. I'm thinking Slovakia is 5th there but who knows. Austria has Marco Rossi assuming he's not NHL bound but that'll be a tough ask for them to do anything in their group. I think this is the year Sweden's streak ends. The Americans 2001's are really talented. I know I'm going to offend some Slovak posters with this prediction but I like upsets, this age group was relegated in the U18s too, sue me.

Early predictions:

USA
Sweden
Russia
Czech Republic
Austria

Canada
Finland
Germany
Switzerland
Slovakia

AUT def SVK

USA def SUI
GER def SWE
FIN def RUS
CAN def CZE

FIN def CAN
USA def GER

USA def FIN
CAN def GER

1. USA
2. FIN
3. CAN
4. GER
5. SWE
6. RUS
7. SUI
8. CZE
9. AUT
10. SVK
Click to expand...

Do you have same information about slovak players (born in 2001,2002)?
You maybe do not know, but slovak players born in 2001 are better as born in 2000. SUI and GER have weak year. SUI do not have any players like is Cajkovic or Hlavaj. And their players born in 2002 are worse as slovak, now. In german side is the best player Seider and next good players are Kinder, Alber, Gnyp, Nijenhuis, Pasanen

GER
(01):
Seider (D), Ancicka (G), Kinder (F), Alberg (F), Pasanen (D), Gnyp (D), Nijenhuijs (F), Verejcka (F), Raabe (D), Slezak (F), Linder (F)
(02):
Stutzle (F), Peterka (F), Reichel (F), Elias (F), Volek (F), Borzecki (F), Glotzl (D), Eham (F), Tuchel (D), Dube (F)

SUI
(01):
Schwenninger (F), Jobin (F), Stoffel (F), Schlapfer (F), Rubin (D), Fiedler (D), Villa (D), Huber (D), Welter (F), Andersson (F)
(02):
Knak (F), Derungs (F), Allmen (F), Lindemann (F), Dufey (F), Chanton (D), Delemont (D), Meier (D), Bartschi (F), Hofer (F), Schaller (F)

SVK
(01):
Cajkovic (F), Mrazik (F), Jellus (F), Sojka (F), Jendek (F), Hascak (F), Melcher (F), Turansky (F), Skvarek (F), Hlavaj (G), Mudrak (D), Golian (G), Hlavac (D), Turan (D)
(02):
Chromiak (F), Krajc (F), Myklukha (F), Kaslik (F), Kolenic (F), Lasak (F), Faith (F), Knazko (D), Stacha (D), Fatul (D), Petrovicky (D), Zubak (D)
 
salamandra said:
Do you have same information about slovak players (born in 2001,2002)?
You maybe do not know, but slovak players born in 2001 are better as born in 2000. SUI and GER have weak year. SUI do not have any players like is Cajkovic or Hlavaj. And their players born in 2002 are worse as slovak, now. In german side is the best player Seider and next good players are Kinder, Alber, Gnyp, Nijenhuis, Pasanen

GER
(01):
Seider (D), Ancicka (G), Kinder (F), Alberg (F), Pasanen (D), Gnyp (D), Nijenhuijs (F), Verejcka (F), Raabe (D), Slezak (F), Linder (F)
(02):
Stutzle (F), Peterka (F), Reichel (F), Elias (F), Volek (F), Borzecki (F), Glotzl (D), Eham (F), Tuchel (D), Dube (F)

SUI
(01):
Schwenninger (F), Jobin (F), Stoffel (F), Schlapfer (F), Rubin (D), Fiedler (D), Villa (D), Huber (D), Welter (F), Andersson (F)
(02):
Knak (F), Derungs (F), Allmen (F), Lindemann (F), Dufey (F), Chanton (D), Delemont (D), Meier (D), Bartschi (F), Hofer (F), Schaller (F)

SVK
(01):
Cajkovic (F), Mrazik (F), Jellus (F), Sojka (F), Jendek (F), Hascak (F), Melcher (F), Turansky (F), Skvarek (F), Hlavaj (G), Mudrak (D), Golian (G), Hlavac (D), Turan (D)
(02):
Chromiak (F), Krajc (F), Myklukha (F), Kaslik (F), Kolenic (F), Lasak (F), Faith (F), Knazko (D), Stacha (D), Fatul (D), Petrovicky (D), Zubak (D)
Click to expand...
We will be trash anyway, let it go. Would stand no chance against Germany with Stutzle and Seider and probably against Switzerland either. Our better years will come, but this is not one of them (Yeah, anything can happen over a year though).
 
Last edited:
Doesn't make sense to compare teams right now. A lot can happen in one year at this age. Switzerland and Slovakia played relegation round in U18 WC last spring (Switzerland won 2-1 which doesn't say anything about strength of the teams, they were pretty even).

Where Slovakia and Switzerland normally have an advantage over the rest ist the depht. Germany has now an age group with a solid depth, too. Austria will have some good talents (like Rossi) but they won't be able to ice 3 good D-pairings and 4 good O-lines. And this can be a deciding factor.
 
FinPanda said:
Looks like we will have another "group of death" next year, but Austria will be the victim.

Group A (Edmonton)
1 Canada
4 Finland
5 Switzerland
8 Slovakia
9 Germany

Group B (Red Deer)
2 Russia
3 Sweden
6 USA
7 Czech Republic
10 Austria


--

It is possible that we see Slovakia playing for relegation. It is possible that they will make changes to the groups, but a little more balanced anyway. Sorry if I offended someone by making this before the gold medal game is played.
Click to expand...

Whoever finishes second in Group A, will have a very difficult QF. Not sure how, but maybe they need to change up the way Groups are composed. Instead of having 1,4,5,8 and 2,3,6,7 in both groups. Have a different combination like 1,3,5,7,9 and 2,4,6,8,10. Makes the groups more competitive possibly.
 
Last edited:
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Mehar said:
Whoever finishes second in Group A, will have a very difficult QF. Not sure how, but maybe they need to change up the way Groups are composed. Instead of having 1,4,5,8 and 2,3,6,7 in both groups. Have a different combination like 1,3,5,7,9 and 2,4,6,8,10. Makes the groups more competitive possibly.
Click to expand...

Every combination you use could possibly turn into such groups when teams like Switzerland play a good tournament and place themselves in the middle of the Top-6 teams. Main reason for having this is Switzerland placing 4th and 5th in the last two years.
 
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