OT: 2021 Football Thread: Mock Draft SZN

[bernmeister]

I wasn't knocking you for keeping on with the Darnold stuff. I was just saying it's time to move on...that's all.

I think Douglas frankly got as much if not more for Darnold than I, and many other Jet fans thought was possible. Douglas was not in a good position, had no real leverage, as Darnold despite his youth and occasional signs of being very good, was very inconsistent, indecisive, mistake prone whether or not it was his fault or the team's for not surrounding him with a good O-line or weaponry and some pretty horrid coaching.

To get a 2nd and 4th next year and a 6th this season for the worst starting QB in the NFL is a pretty decent haul while resetting the financial clock....I dunno man, I don't think any GM could have done better than Douglas did in return for Darnold.

I'm not knocking you brother, nor sayin you are knockin me.

Just sayin there were reports that more was on the table for Darnold which they didn't get b'c JD elected to play it safe.

And when I sit back like everyone else most of the time and I defer to the experts, fine.

But when I go balls to the wall and take a stand, and I'm right, all I'm askin for is the props of acknowledgment.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'm not knocking you brother, nor sayin you are knockin me.

Just sayin there were reports that more was on the table for Darnold which they didn't get b'c JD elected to play it safe.

And when I sit back like everyone else most of the time and I defer to the experts, fine.

But when I go balls to the wall and take a stand, and I'm right, all I'm askin for is the props of acknowledgment.

I would agree that you were right that the Jets could have gotten more had they moved Darnold earlier, prior to the time when they were fully confident in Wilson's medicals.

I would not necessarily agree that would have been the right approach.

It's one of those "does the end justify the means" type of things. They weren't comfortable moving Darnold until they were 100% on Wilson; it may have cost them draft capital, but I don't have a problem with their play. I don't think it was the "wrong" approach.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I'm not knocking you brother, nor sayin you are knockin me.

Just sayin there were reports that more was on the table for Darnold which they didn't get b'c JD elected to play it safe.

And when I sit back like everyone else most of the time and I defer to the experts, fine.

But when I go balls to the wall and take a stand, and I'm right, all I'm askin for is the props of acknowledgment.

i'll give you props. Sewell might be getting fitted for his Gold HOF as i post. How X's before large are his size? Just kidding

 

[nyrage]

I'm not knocking you brother, nor sayin you are knockin me.

Just sayin there were reports that more was on the table for Darnold which they didn't get b'c JD elected to play it safe.

And when I sit back like everyone else most of the time and I defer to the experts, fine.

But when I go balls to the wall and take a stand, and I'm right, all I'm askin for is the props of acknowledgment.

The Jets were offered a second round pick in this year's draft by SF, not a first like that one story goes. He said, she said I suppose, but I'll trust the word of a few reporters versus a fantasy football writer that says SF offered a first. Can you imagine someone offering a first for Darnold? No one in their right mind. The Jets were lucky to get what they got from Carolina.

 

[RGY]

possible two top 10 picks is exciting lol.

Lol I really hope we dont. I hope this team makes playoffs. That should be the goal with their defense and what they have added offensively

 

[nyr2k2]

The Jets were offered a second round pick in this year's draft by SF, not a first like that one story goes. He said, she said I suppose, but I'll trust the word of a few reporters versus a fantasy football writer that says SF offered a first. Can you imagine someone offering a first for Darnold? No one in their right mind. The Jets were lucky to get what they got from Carolina.

Yeah I really only saw independent "reporting" on the rumored initial offer from SF by some random guy I had never heard of. If he's the only one reporting it, and there are others saying something else, I'm inclined to believe the others.

 

[sbjnyc]

The problem with Parcells was that he couldn't stay in one place longer than a few years. The whole Belichek saga was what ruined things for the Jets but Parcells while he was here was unquestionably the best talent evaluator the Jets have ever had.

Never in my lifetime have the Jets ever been so dominant as they were during that 1998 season and it would have likely been even more dominant for the 1999 season had Vinny not torn his achilles.

I respectfully disagree, or at least it's not saying much. In 1997 the Jets trade out of 1OA after Peyton Manning enters grad school. The Jets and up drafting James Farrior, an inside linebacker. Parcells plays him as a second string outside linebacker. Enter Herm Edwards who moves Farrior back to MLB where he has a breakout year, goes to the Steelers as a free agent where he becomes an all pro. Playing guys out of position has been a Hallmark of the Jets for as long as I can remember.

 

[Barnaby]

Yeah I really only saw independent "reporting" on the rumored initial offer from SF by some random guy I had never heard of. If he's the only one reporting it, and there are others saying something else, I'm inclined to believe the others.

Yea, I doubt SF offered a 1st. I think a 2nd is what you could realistically hope for. It’s just what the market has been on underwhelming QBs. I do think Sam is solid in Carolina though. I hope he does well.

 

[bernmeister]

I would agree that you were right that the Jets could have gotten more had they moved Darnold earlier, prior to the time when they were fully confident in Wilson's medicals.

I would not necessarily agree that would have been the right approach.

It's one of those "does the end justify the means" type of things. They weren't comfortable moving Darnold until they were 100% on Wilson; it may have cost them draft capital, but I don't have a problem with their play. I don't think it was the "wrong" approach.

I appreciate the honesty.
Which approach would have been better would depend on exactly how much could have been extracted from SF
--- can we agree on that?

I think you put SEA 1st on the table so its

Darnold + 22OA [22, 23, I forgot] + a better add
for
12OA + starting T McGlinchey [sp?] + lesser add

and if that is the case, 12OA either saves us what we paid to move up,
or
gives us a chance to add and move from 12 to maybe 7, which would have meant Sewell

what alternate scenario do you see?

 

[bernmeister]

The Jets were offered a second round pick in this year's draft by SF, not a first like that one story goes. He said, she said I suppose, but I'll trust the word of a few reporters versus a fantasy football writer that says SF offered a first. Can you imagine someone offering a first for Darnold? No one in their right mind. The Jets were lucky to get what they got from Carolina.

who knows 111% for sure

but I think my assessment of Darnold for not a 1st outright, but moving back 10ish slots, + dealing a T and a lesser asset for 2 better assets, is plausible and not unreasonable and could be a counter to either narrative.

also, don't forget, end of day, SF was not the only bidder for Darnold
JD didn't want distraction and risk overplaying his hand, but had he played his cards right, one way or the other, I think they could have gotten more.

water under the bridge now.

 

[NYSPORTS]

who knows 111% for sure

but I think my assessment of Darnold for not a 1st outright, but moving back 10ish slots, + dealing a T and a lesser asset for 2 better assets, is plausible and not unreasonable and could be a counter to either narrative.

also, don't forget, end of day, SF was not the only bidder for Darnold
JD didn't want distraction and risk overplaying his hand, but had he played his cards right, one way or the other, I think they could have gotten more.

water under the bridge now.

you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Com’on, the Jets did nothing to really help develop Darnold and they obviously let it be known they were going QB.

You’re not trading, packaging, etc a player with the stats of a bust for a fortune based on potential as the buyer will immediately ask “if he’s worth so much then why not keep him?”

 

[nyr2k2]

I appreciate the honesty.
Which approach would have been better would depend on exactly how much could have been extracted from SF
--- can we agree on that?

I think you put SEA 1st on the table so its

Darnold + 22OA [22, 23, I forgot] + a better add
for
12OA + starting T McGlinchey [sp?] + lesser add

and if that is the case, 12OA either saves us what we paid to move up,
or
gives us a chance to add and move from 12 to maybe 7, which would have meant Sewell

what alternate scenario do you see?

Honestly, I don't know, man. I'm not really a fan of hypothetical trade proposals, especially those done in retrospect. I just don't think Darnold was worth that much, whether as part of a package or by himself. There was lots of chatter that other teams wouldn't give up more than a third for him, and that was coming from teams that didn't need or want him and had no horse in the race. The Jets could have probably gotten creative and extracted a bit more, I don't deny that, but I don't think it would have been much. But, again, we'll never know.

I feel like this is a situation where you just acknowledge they got a good return (that seems to be the consensus around the league) and move on.

 

[Barnaby]

I appreciate the honesty.
Which approach would have been better would depend on exactly how much could have been extracted from SF
--- can we agree on that?

I think you put SEA 1st on the table so its

Darnold + 22OA [22, 23, I forgot] + a better add
for
12OA + starting T McGlinchey [sp?] + lesser add

and if that is the case, 12OA either saves us what we paid to move up,
or
gives us a chance to add and move from 12 to maybe 7, which would have meant Sewell

what alternate scenario do you see?

Hypothetically, sure. However, what makes you think that was ever on the table? 12OA and a starting tackle was never happening. I’m sure if it was on the table Douglass would’ve said yes. That’s about twice the value that they received in the end.

That’s pretty much what Darnold’s value was on draft day. Now he’s underwhelmed and is facing contract time.

Obviously SF moved a ton to draft Lance. What makes you think they’d have been just as happy with Darnold? It’s one report from a nobody.

 

[Maximus]

Just read from Cimini...."Quinnen out 8-10 weeks with a fractured foot". Apparently he hurt it working out at the facility in Florham Park.

But of course this needed to happen. There is way to much optimism going on here in Jetland and so the football gods as per the norm need to throw some cold water on us and keep us from getting to excited about the prospects for our team.

Unfriggenbelievable. So now Q needs to get surgery, misses OTA's and mini camp and will hopefully be ready by mid-July. I get he'll likely be fine but it's just such a Jet like thing to occur. It's as if we as a fan base are simply not allowed to ever be happy for more than a day or two....ugh!!

 

[Barnaby]

Just read from Cimini...."Quinnen out 8-10 weeks with a fractured foot". Apparently he hurt it working out at the facility in Florham Park.

But of course this needed to happen. There is way to much optimism going on here in Jetland and so the football gods as per the norm need to throw some cold water on us and keep us from getting to excited about the prospects for our team.

Unfriggenbelievable. So now Q needs to get surgery, misses OTA's and mini camp and will hopefully be ready by mid-July. I get he'll likely be fine but it's just such a Jet like thing to occur. It's as if we as a fan base are simply not allowed to ever be happy for more than a day or two....ugh!!

The price of a seemingly strong draft...

What's the over/under on AVT tearing a knee or shoulder in training camp?

 

[SRHRangers]

Sorry my friend but anyone who's personnel decisions were the main reason that a team that was an absolute joke at 1-15 and two years later be 12-4 and one half away from a SB appearance cannot possibly get an F no matter how many HOF's he might have passed up.

And that's not to mention the Jets the following year had Vinny T not torn his achillies on the 2nd play from scrimmage 1st game of that '99 season, the Jets very likely would have made it to the AFC title game again and were the favorites to win the SB that year.

So I don't see how in this world we live in, Parcells could not only not be given a failing grade for his tenor as coach/GM but in fact is the best GM the team has ever had.

Douglas tho has the pedigree and potential IMO to move right up there with Parcells as best GM the Jets have ever had in lets say 2 years when Jets hopefully will be in the playoffs again.

The urban legend is that Archie said that Peyton would've declared if Parcells guaranteed to take him and Parcells wouldn't make the handshake.

So Peyton went back to college.

Yeah, I definitely fault him for that one.

Not to mention, passed on Orlando Pace, who was the slam dunk OT prospect that would be Berns wet dream lol

 

[sbjnyc]

The urban legend is that Archie said that Peyton would've declared if Parcells guaranteed to take him and Parcells wouldn't make the handshake.

So Peyton went back to college.

Yeah, I definitely fault him for that one.

Not to mention, passed on Orlando Pace, who was the slam dunk OT prospect that would be Berns wet dream lol

He passed on Orlando Pace, Walter Jones and Tony Gonzalez and instead drafted Farrior and played him out of position for 4 years. Yeah, what a great talent evaluator.

 

[SRHRangers]

He passed on Orlando Pace, Walter Jones and Tony Gonzalez and instead drafted Farrior and played him out of position for 4 years. Yeah, what a great talent evaluator.

No one was taking Gonzalez at #1.

That argument there is Pace, who was a slam dunk Canton resident and was the lock #1 pick when we had it.

Parcells stubbornness cost Peyton.

His ego cost Pace.

 

[Maximus]

The price of a seemingly strong draft...

What's the over/under on AVT tearing a knee or shoulder in training camp?

Stop it Matthew...don't even go there....ugh....lol

 

[Maximus]

He passed on Orlando Pace, Walter Jones and Tony Gonzalez and instead drafted Farrior and played him out of position for 4 years. Yeah, what a great talent evaluator.

Listen you can come up with all the negatives you want about Parcells and the Pace one...yeah that still stings. Meanwhile tho, no Jet team has ever had a better coaching staff and player talent as those '98 and '99 Jet teams and that's because of Parcells...period end of story!

 

[sbjnyc]

No one was taking Gonzalez at #1.

That argument there is Pace, who was a slam dunk Canton resident and was the lock #1 pick when we had it.

Parcells stubbornness cost Peyton.

His ego cost Pace.

Rangers traded from 1 where Pace was taken down to 6 where Jones was taken and then to 8 where they took Farrior. Gonzalez was taken at 13. Meanwhile the rangers scooped up an extra 3rd two 4ths and a 7th.

 

[SRHRangers]

Rangers traded from 1 where Pace was taken down to 6 where Jones was taken and then to 9 where they took Farrior. Gonzalez was taken at 13. Meanwhile the rangers scooped up an extra 3rd two 4ths and a 7th.

Exactly. The #1 should've never been traded to begin with.

That draft at the time was Pace..... And everyone else.

 

[sbjnyc]

Exactly. The #1 should've never been traded to begin with.

That draft at the time was Pace..... And everyone else.

I can understand not wanting to pick an OL at #1 since there was no rookie wage scale at the time and probably why they got so little in the trade. But even at 6 Walter Jones should have been taken. Giants had the 7th pick and would almost certainly have taken him. Then at 8 Gonzalez was one of the top prospects available. Maybe te wasn't the biggest need with Kyle Brady there but Brady wasn't that good.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Dallas switching to a 3-4 defense. Good luck with that DL

 

[sbjnyc]

Giants reportedly livid Eagles traded up ahead of them to select DeVonta Smith at 2021 NFL Draft