2021-22 NCAA, CHL, OHL and European prospects thread - part III

[Triumph]

Absolutely correct. I think that's exactly what I said. We all know a Round 7's chances are like 1 in a million, but not playing in NA at all until you take a shot at age 23 increases that to 1 in a zillion. I have seen these late round Europeans come to the AHL for years and flop very quickly. I have seen undrafted Europeans who have had success in their homeland come over at 20/21 and work their tails off on AHL contracts and have much more success. Not necesarily NHL regulars, but high paid AHLers who end up with 2-ways and get some NHL GP.

It's not what you said. What you said was that he should come to North America. I think it's pretty much a toss up what he should do, and, having never established himself with SKA, it makes some sense to actually try to get ice time with a top tier team in the KHL before coming over. And, if he can't get ice time there in 2 years, the Devils don't have to bother with attempting to sign him.

I don't think a 7th round pick who is a double overage pick is that big of a longshot, especially not with the description of Bardakov's game.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Nope. It doesn’t work this way. And NJD did make an offer for him. That’s mean devils interesting in him. KHL is much better competition for him. Way much. And if he gonna be successful in KHL, he could more easily asking for more in NA. And plus he gonna have more money for life. You are absolutely wrong with understanding specific of path for Russian players. Right timing us the most important thing for them. And number of the round doesnt change anything.
Actual successful cases of NHL Russian players who was drafted in later rounds or wasn’t drafted, are about developing in Russia, not in NA. Even Sharangovich spent enough time in KHL, worked with Grabovskiy a lot and found himself on the first line in K. It’s a question where he did develop more, but the thing is he touched both sides and other successful players spent more time in KHL. This is how it is gonna work and is gonna work better.

He was 21 yo and his IT is 11.47, 13.17 in play off. If he would be good enough for NHL and will work enough on his game, he would be ok where he is. If he will not develop his game and will not deserve to play more than 12 min, Devils don’t need in his service. He has best condition for developin.

I hear you. However, I have followed the path of many of these guys from Russia, Sweden, Finland who stay home when the kids their age are starting their careers over here. The European kids do well for several years and then after that success come over here and expect to be players and are disappointed. The second they don't get selected for the NHL team and are asked to taske some time inthe AHL they can't pack thier bags fast enough to go back home. Paying their dues to work up to the big club is out of the question. More money a t home. OK, but it says to me they are not really that concerned with becoming NHL players and that's fine too. There are other kids who are and they will pay the price.

The stars there become stars here. The late round selections getting 6 minutes and jerked around between their European minors/majors don't usually become NHL regulars any more than the late NA selections in the ECHL struggling for a chance at the AHL or the bottom AHLers struggling to become difference makers on their teams will.

All the NHL teams, not just NJ, have, as yous say, "made offers" to these guys. They have made just as many offers to Swedes, Finns, Germans, etc. as well as Canadians and Americans. However, history will tell you they all have the same snowball chances in Hell of becoming NHL players. The NHL teams throw those offers to guys they hope might be the hidden diamond due to one asspect of the ganme a scout might see in those guys, but they don't place a whole lot of faith in it happening. A large number of those those guys never even get signed. Those that do, usually find themselves in the ECHL struggling to get an AHL call-up. Some actually start out in the AHL on 2-yr ELCs and 2 years later it's over.

I have seen them in the Toronto, Vancouver, and Buffalo organizations. There are Russians who were drafted by every one of them as well as other Europeans who are still in their homelands and their rights were given up. They never even took a chance to come over and in other cases the NHL team decided based upon their progress not to even offer them a contract. NJ has several of those guys on their draft selection list over the past several seasons. There are a couple right now who will be dumped on June 1 if they don't sign. There are others in Europe that the NHL franchises have held the rights to that are never going to be offered a contract and don't want one, some have actually retired, and others are old as dirt.

You know that and I know that. You know the players over there better than I do and hold out hope for some you think are good enough to make it happen. I'll trust your faith and wait to see if it pays off just as I do with NA kids I have a hope for. I'm not going to lose any sleep over the kids I'm pulling for over here any more than the ones you are pulling for over there.

It's just the way things work out in this struggle for the NHL that so many dream of, but most never see those dreams become reality, many of whom are now relegated to posting on these sites around the world and starring in beer leagues.

 

[Bad Goalie]

It's not what you said. What you said was that he should come to North America. I think it's pretty much a toss up what he should do, and, having never established himself with SKA, it makes some sense to actually try to get ice time with a top tier team in the KHL before coming over. And, if he can't get ice time there in 2 years, the Devils don't have to bother with attempting to sign him.

I don't think a 7th round pick who is a double overage pick is that big of a longshot, especially not with the description of Bardakov's game.

He's not that a big of a long shot???? He'll be 23 and has never been a big success in any leagues over there (Russiann professional minors). How many 23-yr-old Comets players not putting up big numbers are you people holding out hope for becoming Devils? How many of them are 23-yr-old 7th rounders in their 1st season in the AHL? Hell, you guys have a kid who has put up the best goal scoring numbers for a 19-yr-old in AHL history and I read posts every day from guys deciding it might be a good idea to trade him now because he shows signs of not living up to expectations.

You are going on DESCRIPTIONS of a 7th round selection's game and fellow posters on this site are already selling out Holtz, a #7 OA selection who has been given the highest accolades and projections for becoming an NHL star by every hockey mind in the world.

Yes. I am calling for him to get his 21-yr-old ass over here and see what it takes to become a member of the greatest hockey league on earth. Work his ass off with the other Devils prospects on NA ice. If he's got it, he'll make it. If not, the KHL isn't going anywhere. He can go back there and play with the many Canadian, American, Swedish, Finn, and Russian players that took their best shots over here and didn't make it, but are now doing very well for themselves over there. Hell, Reid Boucher became a star upon arrival.

 

[Triumph]

He's not that a big of a long shot???? He'll be 23 and has never been a big success in any leagues over there (Russiann professional minors). How many 23-yr-old Comets players not putting up big numbers are you people holding out hope for becoming Devils? How many of them are 23-yr-old 7th rounders in their 1st season in the AHL? Hell, you guys have a kid who has put up the best goal scoring numbers for a 19-yr-old in AHL history and I read posts every day from guys deciding it might be a good idea to trade him now because he shows signs of not living up to expectations.

Bardakov is 21, and I don't care what other people say about Holtz. You described Bardakov as 1 in a million, even if we adjust that as hyperbole to something like 1 in 100, I think he has a significantly better chance than that.

You are going on DESCRIPTIONS of a 7th round selection's game and fellow posters on this site are already selling out Holtz, a #7 OA selection who has been given the highest accolades and projections for becoming an NHL star by every hockey mind in the world.

I'm just going on the fact that he is described as mean and physical, something the Devils don't really have much of in their system, especially at forward. Traditionaly, there was a much lower skill threshold for this sort of player to get into the NHL but also, in 2020 he had a halfway decent season for Podolsk as a 19 year old, so he probably has some amount of skill.

Yes. I am calling for him to get his 21-yr-old ass over here and see what it takes to become a member of the greatest hockey league on earth. Work his ass off with the other Devils prospects on NA ice. If he's got it, he'll make it. If not, the KHL isn't going anywhere. He can go back there and play with the many Canadian, American, Swedish, Finn, and Russian players that took their best shots over here and didn't make it, but are now doing very well for themselves over there. Hell, Reid Boucher became a star upon arrival.

Yes, I get it, everyone should go to the AHL and work their way up. I don't agree with that.

 

[Guadana]

I hear you. However, I have followed the path of many of these guys from Russia, Sweden, Finland who stay home when the kids their age are starting their careers over here. The European kids do well for several years and then after that success come over here and expect to be players and are disappointed. The second they don't get selected for the NHL team and are asked to taske some time inthe AHL they can't pack thier bags fast enough to go back home. Paying their dues to work up to the big club is out of the question. More money a t home. OK, but it says to me they are not really that concerned with becoming NHL players and that's fine too. There are other kids who are and they will pay the price.

The stars there become stars here. The late round selections getting 6 minutes and jerked around between their European minors/majors don't usually become NHL regulars any more than the late NA selections in the ECHL struggling for a chance at the AHL or the bottom AHLers struggling to become difference makers on their teams will.

All the NHL teams, not just NJ, have, as yous say, "made offers" to these guys. They have made just as many offers to Swedes, Finns, Germans, etc. as well as Canadians and Americans. However, history will tell you they all have the same snowball chances in Hell of becoming NHL players. The NHL teams throw those offers to guys they hope might be the hidden diamond due to one asspect of the ganme a scout might see in those guys, but they don't place a whole lot of faith in it happening. A large number of those those guys never even get signed. Those that do, usually find themselves in the ECHL struggling to get an AHL call-up. Some actually start out in the AHL on 2-yr ELCs and 2 years later it's over.

I have seen them in the Toronto, Vancouver, and Buffalo organizations. There are Russians who were drafted by every one of them as well as other Europeans who are still in their homelands and their rights were given up. They never even took a chance to come over and in other cases the NHL team decided based upon their progress not to even offer them a contract. NJ has several of those guys on their draft selection list over the past several seasons. There are a couple right now who will be dumped on June 1 if they don't sign. There are others in Europe that the NHL franchises have held the rights to that are never going to be offered a contract and don't want one, some have actually retired, and others are old as dirt.

You know that and I know that. You know the players over there better than I do and hold out hope for some you think are good enough to make it happen. I'll trust your faith and wait to see if it pays off just as I do with NA kids I have a hope for. I'm not going to lose any sleep over the kids I'm pulling for over here any more than the ones you are pulling for over there.

It's just the way things work out in this struggle for the NHL that so many dream of, but most never see those dreams become reality, many of whom are now relegated to posting on these sites around the world and starring in beer leagues.

You are try to think one way, but reality is another. And your words working against you. Players from NA playing on bottom lines in Ahl, playing in echl, where the level of competition is way worser. They can't develop well, some one can. Utica is stacked and isn't good enough for young players for develop. Not NHL ready players are successful in AHL, its hard to teach them more. We just hope they will. Like we hope guys from Russia will too.

And this is how it is actually working.

But in Russia they faced great challenge. And if they talented enough, they got time. If they not - its ok, not every players will be nhlers. At least uoy will try them in much better league. And they will got some real money. Not an AHL salary joke.

I understand that teams loves to have every young players under their wing, its a comfort situation but you can lost talented guys, who are not ready. Russia have 2nd league, have junior league. Its another level of conditions. And the most of them are product of the system. This is how a lot of team have their stars out from nowhere. And thus is what is going on with euros and with Russian especially. Guys from later rounds are becoming great players, because system works. We don't have NA players from later rounds. Coleman is rare. Gritsyuk, Bratt, Yegor, etc. They are obviously better. Even if Gritsyuk will not pan out in NHL. As prospect he is way better than every other non first rounder from NA, who is trying himself in AHL and ECHL.

And im not against to give them some time in ahl for adapt, if they need.
In KHL Bardakov plays against ЦСКА in the CF 15+ min 7 games. In AHL he would play 3rd line minutes against Buffalo farm 5 games.

If we wanna have trump out from nowhere, we are drafting Russian guys and give them time they need. Even one successful prospect would change franchise.

 

[Bad Goalie]

You are try to think one way, but reality is another. And your words working against you. Players from NA playing on bottom lines in Ahl, playing in echl, where the level of competition is way worser. They can't develop well, some one can. Utica is stacked and isn't good enough for young players for develop. Not NHL ready players are successful in AHL, its hard to teach them more. We just hope they will. Like we hope guys from Russia will too.

And this is how it is actually working.

But in Russia they faced great challenge. And if they talented enough, they got time. If they not - its ok, not every players will be nhlers. At least uoy will try them in much better league. And they will got some real money. Not an AHL salary joke.

I understand that teams loves to have every young players under their wing, its a comfort situation but you can lost talented guys, who are not ready. Russia have 2nd league, have junior league. Its another level of conditions. And the most of them are product of the system. This is how a lot of team have their stars out from nowhere. And thus is what is going on with euros and with Russian especially. Guys from later rounds are becoming great players, because system works. We don't have NA players from later rounds. Coleman is rare. Gritsyuk, Bratt, Yegor, etc. They are obviously better. Even if Gritsyuk will not pan out in NHL. As prospect he is way better than every other non first rounder from NA, who is trying himself in AHL and ECHL.

And im not against to give them some time in ahl for adapt, if they need.
In KHL Bardakov plays against ЦСКА in the CF 15+ min 7 games. In AHL he would play 3rd line minutes against Buffalo farm 5 games.

If we wanna have trump out from nowhere, we are drafting Russian guys and give them time they need. Even one successful prospect would change franchise.

I wish him all the luck as I do the NA kids. Russia is huge country. Very large number of kids playing hockey. We should have a lot more Russian players in the NHL, but not really that many for the % of players playing the game over there. Still trying to figure out why guys like Boucher and many others who can't make the NHL go over to the KHL and become stars.

 

[Guadana]

I wish him all the luck as I do the NA kids. Russia is huge country. Very large number of kids playing hockey. We should have a lot more Russian players in the NHL, but not really that many for the % of players playing the game over there. Still trying to figure out why guys like Boucher and many others who can't make the NHL go over to the KHL and become stars.

I wrote big post. But decide to cut it. It`s a matter of life. Everybody do it because they cut the risk and build their life. Its not a devils fan talk, its a talk about how to manage not to get into failure if you are not the most talented. Even if you talented.

 

[Brodeur]

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

AHL is developing league. KHL is not. I did watch a lot of games of KHL and AHL. Yes, KHL have three four bad teams, but overall it is what it is. The level of consistent pressure, defensive games etc is another. I would say KHL and SHL are better than AHL, but I think AHL is better than Liiga. As a leauge of quality competition.
And we should not forget euro rinks and na rinks are different and have different specific. Reason why Gusev is productive on the larger rinks, but you will have a lot of players who was better on smaller rinks, but will never be better than Gusev on larger rinks.

Hope, political stuff will not effect hockey, for now it doesn`t. And when you have 5 unsigned agents from KHL, it doesnt sounds great, but when your number 6 is Kaprizov or Shestyorkin, you can deal with it. Devils drafted a lot of players from Russia, and now we have Gritsyuk. He isn`t a star for now, but he is great gamble and this is what`s for later rounds exist. Good teams builds from the draft, but with later round picks. It is some kind of good scouting\luck, that make your team better, than other organisation. Some team did draft Russian goalies and we saw a lot of them in conference finals in the last years, some teams dont do that and cant handle goalie situation.

Bardakov should work on different aspects of the game. His current deal help him to have insurance for life, if his hockey career will not develop. If he will better player next two years, he can try himself in NA to turn his career on another level.

Since you see a lot of the KHL would love your take on the two defensemen, Zaitsev and Misyul.

The abrasiveness of Zaitsev is something that is lacking in guys like Severson and Smith but is he talented enough to play in the NHL?

 

[Bad Goalie]

I wrote big post. But decide to cut it. It`s a matter of life. Everybody do it because they cut the risk and build their life. Its not a devils fan talk, its a talk about how to manage not to get into failure if you are not the most talented. Even if you talented.

Understand.

 

[Guadana]

Since you see a lot of the KHL would love your take on the two defensemen, Zaitsev and Misyul.

The abrasiveness of Zaitsev is something that is lacking in guys like Severson and Smith but is he talented enough to play in the NHL?

He is talented to play 3rd pair role. He is very solid defenseman, but lack of passing vision is a thing why he never cash his strength in NHL I think. No matter he is “left handed” he play on the right very often and do it well. His gap control is advance. His skating isn’t great, but it’s average and good enough, his starting speed is good. And he built like a tank. Very strong on his feet.
But money is a money. I would not wait him.

Misyul is very interesting prospect, he is defensive defenseman too, but he is taller and his skating is great. He is young enough. Playing more and more minutes. I think if Devils will have cap problem, we could use him as cheap add for the roster and he will make good defensive impact.

I would say Zaitsev could lost himself in NHL, because he play to way simple game, and I don’t know - is his skating helps him on the bigger ice to compensate his witnesses of position playing or he have good defensive IQ. I think he hasn’t. Misyul on the other hand have great skating, very mobile and I like how he play against the circle against perimeter players. Zaitsev is much better on the slot, but makes mistakes with the puck. Misyul makes mistakes on the slot and could lost his player, but he is very good with the puck in defensive zone. And I see how he develop his game. He is young - 21 yo.
I could think his floor isn’t high enough, he should develope his slot game, game against breakaways, position game behind the net, he should work on his board game. He isn’t bad, but I want to see more proactive game from defensive player of his size. But his ceiling as defensive defenseman is very high.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

@Guttersniped news about your favorite prospect.

 

[Guttersniped]

@Guttersniped news about your favorite prospect.

This is hilarious. I would love to completely wrong about this kid and have him be complete stud (or just kinda good).

It would also be hilarious if he only stayed in J20 all this season to protect his NCAA eligibility since I’ve been dumping on him for playing in J20 all year.

I don’t know how this is exactly allowed since he played pro games in 2020-21 (4 games in HockeyAllsvenskan and 7 games in HockeyEttan). Elite Prospects not only has the stats, they also scouted him in those games.

I thought a player can’t play in any pro games, even if they don’t have a contract with the pro team, and still maintain their NCAA eligibility. I’m I missing something about eligibility?

 

[Triumph]

This is hilarious. I would love to completely wrong about this kid and have him be complete stud (or just kinda good).

It would also be hilarious if he only stayed in J20 all this season to protect his NCAA eligibility since I’ve been dumping on him for playing in J20 all year.

I don’t know how this is exactly allowed since he played pro games in 2020-21 (4 games in HockeyAllsvenskan and 7 games in HockeyEttan). Elite Prospects not only has the stats, they also scouted him in those games.

I thought a player can’t play in any pro games, even if they don’t have a contract with the pro team, and still maintain their NCAA eligibility. I’m I missing something about eligibility?

It was a long time ago but Marko Tuomainen played in SM-Liiga and then 4 years in the NCAA. I suspect given that Talvitie and Salminen were kept out of that league that that is no longer permitted. I feel like there've been players who've gone from Allsvenskan to the NCAA but f*** if I'm gonna remember them, I can't believe I pulled Tuomainen.

(This might be a double post)

 

[Blackjack]

This is hilarious. I would love to completely wrong about this kid and have him be complete stud (or just kinda good).

It would also be hilarious if he only stayed in J20 all this season to protect his NCAA eligibility since I’ve been dumping on him for playing in J20 all year.

I don’t know how this is exactly allowed since he played pro games in 2020-21 (4 games in HockeyAllsvenskan and 7 games in HockeyEttan). Elite Prospects not only has the stats, they also scouted him in those games.

I thought a player can’t play in any pro games, even if they don’t have a contract with the pro team, and still maintain their NCAA eligibility. I’m I missing something about eligibility?

I wonder if they make an exception for emergency call ups since the J20 team is attached to the senior team.

 

[Bad Goalie]

All I know is that when the AHL considers the number of professional games a player can play before being considered a Veteran or Veteran Exempt player in the AHL, the Swedish Allvenskan and the ECHL don't count as professional leagues. Only GP in the top European leagues count.

I have no idea if this factors into the NCAA when considering a guy a pro.

*Addendum
I know when I was playing if you won $100 bucks in a local bowling league championship, the NCAA considered you to have been paid to play a sport and you were done.

One of my high school baseball teammates, one of our top pitchers, won a local TV station Saturday afternoon bowling for dollars match and he was considered a pro bowler and was barred from his SR season. His parents bad a big amount of cash to a lawyer to take it to court and his amateur status was returned as long as he gave back the $200 he won.

Athletes can now be a pro in any other sport than the one they are playing in college and it's okay.

 

[Bad Goalie]

error

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Are the Devils one of the teams pursuing SKA forward Andrei Kuzmenko?

If not, should they be?

 

[Triumph]

Are the Devils one of the teams pursuing SKA forward Andrei Kuzmenko?

If not, should they be?

I doubt they are, and they shouldn't be. They have plenty of forwards of Kuzmenko's likely ability.

 

[HBK27]

Are the Devils one of the teams pursuing SKA forward Andrei Kuzmenko?

If not, should they be?

Hopefully he didn't ask his teammate Gusev about his time in NJ...

 

[Brodeur]

Are the Devils one of the teams pursuing SKA forward Andrei Kuzmenko?

If not, should they be?

It was reported that 20+ teams kicked the tires, but I don't think we'd be on Kuzmenko's list. Because of the CBA, he has to sign a 1 year ELC. So he'll be looking for a team that could guarantee him decent minutes and power play time. Then he could cash in on a normal contract next summer.

Relatively speaking, we already have a crowded set of forwards with possibly Holtz (plus possibly Slafkovsky/Wright) challenging for a spot.

Alexander Barabanov signed with Toronto and I'm sure he was told he could maybe play with Matthews or Tavares but he ended up being a healthy scratch. Then he got traded to San Jose and has carved out a decent spot for himself there. So that might be something Kuzmenko/his agent consider.

 

[Guttersniped]

It was reported that 20+ teams kicked the tires, but I don't think we'd be on Kuzmenko's list. Because of the CBA, he has to sign a 1 year ELC. So he'll be looking for a team that could guarantee him decent minutes and power play time. Then he could cash in on a normal contract next summer.

Relatively speaking, we already have a crowded set of forwards with possibly Holtz (plus possibly Slafkovsky/Wright) challenging for a spot.

Alexander Barabanov signed with Toronto and I'm sure he was told he could maybe play with Matthews or Tavares but he ended up being a healthy scratch. Then he got traded to San Jose and has carved out a decent spot for himself there. So that might be something Kuzmenko/his agent consider.

Vancouver is allegedly a favorite and supposedly in part because Podkolzin played with him on the same KHL team for a couple of seasons plus w/ Team Russia (as adults only because of the age difference).

He played a ton with Sorokin, they came up in the same system and played on the same MHL team (w/ Popugaev for one season lol) as well as the same VHL & KHL team plus w/ Team Russia (including U20). The Isles could wingers.

He played with Kaprizov in the KHL for one season too and Russian U20 (plus regular Team Russia), but not sure the Wild makes sense.

He played with Zub in the KHL for two seasons. (And w/ Team Russia.)

He played with Shesterkin in the KHL for two seasons, U20, and w/ Team Russia. The Rags are full up on LWs obviously.

He played two seasons in the KHL with Barabanov too. And w/ Team Russia.

 

[Brodeur]

Looks like Holtz was pulled off the makeup WJC team, maybe a Devils decision for him to get some rest?



Edit: Seattle/Ottawa pulled Beniers/Sanderson off Team USA as well. Nice opportunity for Luke to shoulder even more responsibility.

Original D was:
LD: Sanderson, Hughes, Kleven, Kaiser, Peart
RD: Faber, Morrow, Moore

Can't remember a weaker year in recent memory for American goaltending. Even with Commesso, I didn't think it was necessarily a strength for us.

We've been pretty spoiled lately with Campbell, Gibson, Demko, and Knight. Oettinger as well but he was the backup in 2018.