2021-2022 S Blues Multi-Purpose Thread Part 3

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I highly doubt we keep Barbashev on the 4th line at the start of the year when he is coming off the season he had, especially when that puts Brown and another in the top 9. Barby had 26 goals and 60 points. That's 5 times as many goals and 3 times as many points as Brown has in his NHL career.

We are no longer deep enough to roll 4 scoring lines. Acciari is a good 4th liner, but he puts up no offense. He's much better off anchoring a defensive 4th line. We'd be really neutering Barbashev's offense to put him with him and whatever other guy we wins that line. Given Barby was one of our best goal scorers last year and we lost goal scoring without adding any, I see no reason to put Barby with Acciari with less ice time.

If we have to go with pairs where one of our 8 best is with Acciari as the basis of our lines, I'd rather swap Saad and Barbashev, then have one of the youngsters win the top 9 RW. So we'd have an offensive line with Barby-Brown-Bolduc, and a defensive line of Sadd - Acciari - Highmore.

I don't really like that either as I'd rather have our 8 best in the top 9, with a spot for a youngster or new signing to earn.

Your BBB 3rd line would scare the heck out of me. They need someone who can be trusted defensively.

 

[Majorityof1]

Your BBB 3rd line would scare the heck out of me. They need someone who can be trusted defensively.

You may be right. The idea would be to heavily shelter them. I trust Barbashev defensively more than most as well. However, I did say I'd rather have all top 8 guys in the top 9, which would allow Saad to be on that line in place of Brown or Bolduc.

 

[mk80]

I can’t argue any of this. The only thing with Barbie is that we don’t know if that was a fluke or not. He was our worst forward in the playoffs, so who knows what Chief is thinking with him. Only time will tell.

I personally(like many others) have been anticipating the lineup below to be based around this, but we’ll just see how it shakes out.

Saad-O’Reilly-Kyrou
Buchnevich-Thomas-Tarasenko
Barbashev-Schenn-xxx
xxx-Acciari-xxx

I'm inclined to think, assuming he has a decent camp, that Pitlick will convert his PTO into a league minimum contract, and probably be in line to fill a spot on the 4th line.

 

[PeoriaBlues309]

I'm inclined to think, assuming he has a decent camp, that Pitlick will convert his PTO into a league minimum contract, and probably be in line to fill a spot on the 4th line.

I do as well, until Toropchenko comes back at the very least.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I’m skeptical Brown makes the top 9, but rooting for him. It would be found money if he becomes a regular/legit NHL roster player.

I think JRs speculation here about the lines is a little lazy or just wrong.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I’m skeptical Brown makes the top 9, but rooting for him. It would be found money if he becomes a regular/legit NHL roster player.

I think JRs speculation here about the lines is a little lazy or just wrong.

No. That doesn’t sound like JR at all!

 

[BlueDream]

It's not like Berube just listed off names and Brown happened to be the first one in the sentence and that was it. This is the full quote:

"Yeah, a guy like Logan Brown. He’s going to come in and push for a spot for sure. He has the ability with making plays, and the offensive side of things, to be a top-nine player. We’ve definitely got to look at that and see where he’s at. I’ve got to see some of these other guys that we brought in, like Josh Leivo. He’s scored some goals, he’s been around, so I’ve got to see where he’s at. Klim Kostin is back, and he’s a big guy that’s been around. He needs to take another step here. He has the ability to do the things that are needed, but again, you’ve got to go and do it. And Jake Neighbours, for sure."

I know hating on JR is the cool thing to do but it's the first day of camp. We just went months without having anything to talk about so he's just trying to drum up some conversation, which is kinda part of his job. You guys need to chill out instead of complaining about everything he writes.

 

[Brian39]

It's not like Berube just listed off names and Brown happened to be the first one in the sentence and that was it. This is the full quote:

"Yeah, a guy like Logan Brown. He’s going to come in and push for a spot for sure. He has the ability with making plays, and the offensive side of things, to be a top-nine player. We’ve definitely got to look at that and see where he’s at. I’ve got to see some of these other guys that we brought in, like Josh Leivo. He’s scored some goals, he’s been around, so I’ve got to see where he’s at. Klim Kostin is back, and he’s a big guy that’s been around. He needs to take another step here. He has the ability to do the things that are needed, but again, you’ve got to go and do it. And Jake Neighbours, for sure."

I know hating on JR is the cool thing to do but it's the first day of camp. We just went months without having anything to talk about so he's just trying to drum up some conversation, which is kinda part of his job. You guys need to chill out instead of complaining about everything he writes.

Agree completely. I don't think that Berube talking him up first means that he is the clear favorite to win the job, but it was absolutely an intentional decision by Berube to talk about him first. This wasn't an unexpected question for Berube. The fight for a top 9 spot is probably the biggest question/story heading in to camp and every coach in the league uses the media to push fringe guys at this time of year.

Maybe this is to prove to Brown that he is truly on Berube's radar. Maybe this is to send a message to Neighbours that he shouldn't get comfortable just because he started camp with ROR. Maybe it is part of a message to Barby that there are a lot of guys fighting for top 9 spots and he really could be pushed down to the 4th line. Or maybe it is because Berube genuinely would put Brown in the top 9 if the regular season tomorrow.

All we can do is speculate about the reasoning, but Berube starting his answer by talking about Brown was absolutely intentional.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don't think we should bash JR for it, but I also think it's pretty silly to say that means Brown has an inside track for that spot. Brown definitely has a legitimate shot to win the spot, and as a fan, I hope he wins it, I hope Kostin, Leivo, Neighbours, Bolduc, and whoever else wins it because that means they were the best player for the spot. That being said, if Brown wasn't drafted where he was and from St. Louis, I think many here that are more positive on here than not would have a different opinion of him. What has he done to make any of us think he can be a full-time top 9 contributor? He's basically the same level as Kostin to me. Former 1st round that has massively failed to live up to expectations that hasn't been good enough offensively for a top 9 role, and doesn't really play a 4th line role as well as other 4th line types.

What I take from the quote, Berube is saying it's a genuinely open competition. It's both to give hope to the guys that might be more long-shots, and the push the guys that might think it's their spot to lose. It's sort of the same thing on the defensive depth. Perunovich, Lyle, Tucker, and Kessel are all getting partnered with the top 4 guys. Perunovich's opportunity is to be a NHL player, and the other 3 are going to be fighting with Rosen to be that 1st call up, but the hope is one of them exceeds expectations and proves they can hang with the big boys.

 

[Brian39]

I don't think we should bash JR for it, but I also think it's pretty silly to say that means Brown has an inside track for that spot. Brown definitely has a legitimate shot to win the spot, and as a fan, I hope he wins it, I hope Kostin, Leivo, Neighbours, Bolduc, and whoever else wins it because that means they were the best player for the spot. That being said, if Brown wasn't drafted where he was and from St. Louis, I think many here that are more positive on here than not would have a different opinion of him. What has he done to make any of us think he can be a full-time top 9 contributor?

What I take from the quote, Berube is saying it's a genuinely open competition. It's both to give hope to the guys that might be more long-shots, and the push the guys that might think it's their spot to lose.

For the record, my answer to this bolded question is that he hasn't. He would need to have a very good camp to earn the spot if I were in charge. But to be fair, that is true for every player competing for that spot in camp. Someone in the organization needs to show us something that they haven't shown yet. The person who earns the spot should have taken a next step (or two) since the last time we saw him in the NHL. If no one has, then we need to explore an external acquisition using LTIR space.

His flashes of scoring at the NHL is more than any of his competition have shown me so far. The gap between "what we've seen" and "what we need" is less for him than anyone else. But he is also older than most the competition, so that is to be expected. I'm fairly comfortable saying that Bolduc and Neighbours will be better top 9 players than Brown. But I'm much less confident that will be true in 2022/23.

 

[bleedblue1223]

For the record, my answer to this bolded question is that he hasn't. He would need to have a very good camp to earn the spot if I were in charge. But to be fair, that is true for every player competing for that spot in camp. Someone in the organization needs to show us something that they haven't shown yet. The person who earns the spot should have taken a next step (or two) since the last time we saw him in the NHL. If no one has, then we need to explore an external acquisition using LTIR space.

His flashes of scoring at the NHL is more than any of his competition have shown me so far. The gap between "what we've seen" and "what we need" is less for him than anyone else. But he is also older than most the competition, so that is to be expected. I'm fairly comfortable saying that Bolduc and Neighbours will be better top 9 players than Brown. But I'm much less confident that will be true in 2022/23.

Yeah, and I'm not calling you or anyone else out specifically, just speaking in the general sense. And I did add a bit more in an edit, but offensively, he's basically on the same level as Kostin to me. Both had about the same production last year in about same amount of games. This board would probably be just fine if Kostin went back to Russia and never came back, and I think the same type of opinion should apply to Brown.

And you are right about there isn't anyone that has proven much on the NHL level for that 9th spot. I wouldn't even be surprised if Walker ends up in that spot or when Toropchenko gets healthy, he gets that spot. It's definitely a potential weak spot of the lineup.

 

[MissouriMook]

It's not like Berube just listed off names and Brown happened to be the first one in the sentence and that was it. This is the full quote:

"Yeah, a guy like Logan Brown. He’s going to come in and push for a spot for sure. He has the ability with making plays, and the offensive side of things, to be a top-nine player. We’ve definitely got to look at that and see where he’s at. I’ve got to see some of these other guys that we brought in, like Josh Leivo. He’s scored some goals, he’s been around, so I’ve got to see where he’s at. Klim Kostin is back, and he’s a big guy that’s been around. He needs to take another step here. He has the ability to do the things that are needed, but again, you’ve got to go and do it. And Jake Neighbours, for sure."

I know hating on JR is the cool thing to do but it's the first day of camp. We just went months without having anything to talk about so he's just trying to drum up some conversation, which is kinda part of his job. You guys need to chill out instead of complaining about everything he writes.

 

[Reality Czech]

Yeah, and I'm not calling you or anyone else out specifically, just speaking in the general sense. And I did add a bit more in an edit, but offensively, he's basically on the same level as Kostin to me. Both had about the same production last year in about same amount of games. This board would probably be just fine if Kostin went back to Russia and never came back, and I think the same type of opinion should apply to Brown.

And you are right about there isn't anyone that has proven much on the NHL level for that 9th spot. I wouldn't even be surprised if Walker ends up in that spot or when Toropchenko gets healthy, he gets that spot. It's definitely a potential weak spot of the lineup.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said on this page with one small exception. From a value point of view, I see Brown and Kostin pretty similar (i.e. not much), but they aren't in competition for the same role. We've got a ton of guys who could be serviceable 4th liners, including Kostin if he can adapt to the NHL game. In Brown's case, if he can't put it together and hold down third line center/wing then I don't see a role for him on the team aside from maybe as a 14th forward.

So I would say the 9F spot is Brown's to lose for now, but it's up to him if he can earn it and keep it. Walker would be my second choice, but I don't see Kostin or Torpo as offensive enough for the top 9. I'd give Brown an extended look there to let him play with better linemates, but if he doesn't show something within a month or so then we can move on from him without thinking twice.

Would try either Brown/Schenn/Barby or Saad/Brown/Barby depending on where Schenn ends up. Perhaps Barby's work ethic will rub off on him and Brown would benefit from having a veteran like Schenn or Saad around. Of course if a better option presents itself then disregard this entire post.

I realized I had forgotten about Neighbours while writing this post, so he could obviously beat out Brown for that last top 9 spot and wouldn't be surprising if he does.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said on this page with one small exception. From a value point of view, I see Brown and Kostin pretty similar (i.e. not much), but they aren't in competition for the same role. We've got a ton of guys who could be serviceable 4th liners, including Kostin if he can adapt to the NHL game. In Brown's case, if he can't put it together and hold down third line center/wing then I don't see a role for him on the team aside from maybe as a 14th forward.

So I would say the 9F spot is Brown's to lose for now, but it's up to him if he can earn it and keep it. Walker would be my second choice, but I don't see Kostin or Torpo as offensive enough for the top 9. I'd give Brown an extended look there to let him play with better linemates, but if he doesn't show something within a month or so then we can move on from him without thinking twice.

Would try either Brown/Schenn/Barby or Saad/Brown/Barby depending on where Schenn ends up. Perhaps Barby's work ethic will rub off on him and Brown would benefit from having a veteran like Schenn or Saad around. Of course if a better option presents itself then disregard this entire post.

I realized I had forgotten about Neighbours while writing this post, so he could obviously beat out Brown for that last top 9 spot and wouldn't be surprising if he does.

Yeah, I mostly agree with that. Brown isn't really a good option for the 4th, and Kostin has the potential to be either that 9th forward and a 4th liner if they convince him to play more direct like Toropchenko did.

I honestly don't think any of them offer much upside except Neighbours, but going back to a quote from Army a few weeks back, Neighbours has to be that 9th guy, if he ends up in that group of 10-14, then he's not making the team. And if Neighbours isn't ready, I expect this to be an area that Army targets at the deadline. And whoever ends up winning the 9th spot or whatever rotation it ends up being, it shouldn't hinder us from being in a playoff spot, so Army shouldn't be in a rush to acquire an upgrade.

 

[TK 421]

C'mon Zachy....score the goals. Score all the goals and keep my dream alive. Our dream, sorry, I meant our dream.

 

[Brian39]

I honestly don't think any of them offer much upside except Neighbours, but going back to a quote from Army a few weeks back, Neighbours has to be that 9th guy, if he ends up in that group of 10-14, then he's not making the team. And if Neighbours isn't ready, I expect this to be an area that Army targets at the deadline. And whoever ends up winning the 9th spot or whatever rotation it ends up being, it shouldn't hinder us from being in a playoff spot, so Army shouldn't be in a rush to acquire an upgrade.

At least Neighbours will be going to the AHL and not back to junior if he fails to make the team. That leaves the door open for him to earn the top 9 job mid-season even if he isn't ready for it out of camp. All the more reason that Army wouldn't need to rush for an upgrade.

 

[Reality Czech]

Yeah, I mostly agree with that. Brown isn't really a good option for the 4th, and Kostin has the potential to be either that 9th forward and a 4th liner if they convince him to play more direct like Toropchenko did.

I honestly don't think any of them offer much upside except Neighbours, but going back to a quote from Army a few weeks back, Neighbours has to be that 9th guy, if he ends up in that group of 10-14, then he's not making the team. And if Neighbours isn't ready, I expect this to be an area that Army targets at the deadline. And whoever ends up winning the 9th spot or whatever rotation it ends up being, it shouldn't hinder us from being in a playoff spot, so Army shouldn't be in a rush to acquire an upgrade.

For sure. I can definitely see the logic in sending Neighbours down for experience if he doesn't grab the 9th spot out of camp. With inevitable injuries, I would expect us to acquire a depth forward at some point but Army has a lot of lottery tickets he can scratch off before looking outside the organization for help. Maybe one of Brown, Kostin, Walker, Leivo, Highmore, Pitlick, Neighbours or whoever can find the next level of their game and be a regular contributor.

 

[BlueOil]

I know hating on JR is the cool thing to do but it's the first day of camp. We just went months without having anything to talk about so he's just trying to drum up some conversation, which is kinda part of his job. You guys need to chill out instead of complaining about everything he writes.

i'll complain until JR offers better stuff, sorry if it feels like that's never gonna change, i feel it too

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Agree completely. I don't think that Berube talking him up first means that he is the clear favorite to win the job, but it was absolutely an intentional decision by Berube to talk about him first. This wasn't an unexpected question for Berube. The fight for a top 9 spot is probably the biggest question/story heading in to camp and every coach in the league uses the media to push fringe guys at this time of year.

Maybe this is to prove to Brown that he is truly on Berube's radar. Maybe this is to send a message to Neighbours that he shouldn't get comfortable just because he started camp with ROR. Maybe it is part of a message to Barby that there are a lot of guys fighting for top 9 spots and he really could be pushed down to the 4th line. Or maybe it is because Berube genuinely would put Brown in the top 9 if the regular season tomorrow.

All we can do is speculate about the reasoning, but Berube starting his answer by talking about Brown was absolutely intentional.

Of course it was. Berube and DA often send messages through the press. As they should. Its just that JR seemingly has no clue about it.

 

[Xerloris]

I’m skeptical Brown makes the top 9, but rooting for him. It would be found money if he becomes a regular/legit NHL roster player.

I think JRs speculation here about the lines is a little lazy or just wrong.

He's wrong about most things.

I think that if anyone has an inside track that does not bode well for them making the team. It means more eyes will be on them and more expectation means a bigger critical eye on everything they do. Brown doesn't strike me as someone that thrives under pressure.

 

[Brian39]

Of course it was. Berube and DA often send messages through the press. As they should. Its just that JR seemingly has no clue about it.

What doesn't he seemingly have a clue about here? He reported Berube's answer verbatim in his article and sent a tweet that pretty damn accurately captured the content of what Berube told him. Berube very clearly wanted the focus to be on Brown as the candidate for that job and JR reported that. I haven't seen him offer any further analysis or speculation about Brown's chance of winning that job, so it isn't like he is showing that he's blindly accepting the statement as truth.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

What doesn't he seemingly have a clue about here? He reported Berube's answer verbatim in his article and sent a tweet that pretty damn accurately captured the content of what Berube told him. Berube very clearly wanted the focus to be on Brown as the candidate for that job and JR reported that. I haven't seen him offer any further analysis or speculation about Brown's chance of winning that job, so it isn't like he is showing that he's blindly accepting the statement as truth.

Have you ever seen JR question why Berube or DA said something? What message they are trying to send? Or does he just repeat what they said? Like when he repeated Tank’s agent whining anonymously about his client not being traded.

Berube was seemingly trying to pump Brown’s tires, telling Neighbors that he has to win job if he wants it, and also in that interview throwing shade at Kostin.

 

[Reality Czech]

He's wrong about most things.

I think that if anyone has an inside track that does not bode well for them making the team. It means more eyes will be on them and more expectation means a bigger critical eye on everything they do. Brown doesn't strike me as someone that thrives under pressure.

We also need to keep in mind that just because someone makes the opening day roster doesn't mean they will be on the team at the end of the year, or even a month or two from now. James Neal gave us a few games and some veteran influence, and last year we saw Torpo and MacMac called up midseason to shake things up.

I don't see it with Brown either, but hoping to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[rumrokh]

What doesn't he seemingly have a clue about here? He reported Berube's answer verbatim in his article and sent a tweet that pretty damn accurately captured the content of what Berube told him. Berube very clearly wanted the focus to be on Brown as the candidate for that job and JR reported that. I haven't seen him offer any further analysis or speculation about Brown's chance of winning that job, so it isn't like he is showing that he's blindly accepting the statement as truth.

I think the tweet was innocuous as hell and some of the reactions show just how badly some of us need the season to start yesterday. But I'm not against some context. We saw him repeatedly parrot every scrap he was fed by Tarasenko's agent and act like a full-on asshole to people who tried to call him out on that despite the fact that what he reported was repeatedly denied by other reporters and his claims never came to pass.

So I can appreciate, to some degree, looking at his choices about what to say in the light of the figure he's chosen to become. In this case, is it actually clear that Berube wanted the focus to be on Brown? Or was he just the first of multiple mentions that came out of his mouth? Everyone here is doing some degree of editorializing. Some fans think the order is meaningless - some obviously because they have doubts about Brown. It's not unfair to say JR could have simply listed the names Berube mentioned and that's all. Going out of his way to note that Brown was first, while not listing the other names, could mean he believes the first mention is meaningful - or at least that it's a valid way to frame things for engagement. It's not that weird to me for fans to react to that with their distaste or skepticism about JR's judgment.

Again, I think it's a nothing tweet. This kind of shit doesn't matter to me. But you can see where there's considerable gray area here and why it isn't actually that clear or simple. There's room for more responses here.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I regret ever bringing it up lol.