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Prospect Info: 2020 NHL Draft 19th Overall Pick, Braden Schneider, D

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kovazub94 said:
Then I don’t see how you can distinguish that these prospects with depth potential are more likely to not reach NHL.
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I didn’t say that. I said the most likely scenario for all prospects (outside of the top X picks of course) is that they do not turn into NHL players regardless of whether their potential is seen to be a skill player or depth player.
 
Edge said:
But the guys who are on the board at 19? Eh, I think that's pushing it. And even then, preference for offensive forwards doesn't make Schneider any less of a prospect.

It's just such a flawed approach.
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People tend to believe that only point totals matter when deciding how much of a factor a player his.
 
Mikos87 said:
A player that's in the running for 20+ a night on the Canadian world junior team isn't a depth player by traditional definitions.
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And that's the thing --- this is guy who is routinely being considered to not only represent his nation, but also go up against other nation's BEST players and the best players in his league.

He's going out there as a strategic weapon, not as a sacrificial lamb.
 
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Edge said:
And that's the thing --- this is guy who is routinely being considered to not only represent his nation, but also go up against other nation's BEST players and the best players in his league.

He's going out there as a strategic weapon, not as a sacrificial lamb.
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Yeah and I think that's where common sense has to come into play. It's interesting, most analytics hires at companies are what I call open file and rank. That's what you see out there as your commonly reverberated insights. On the whole, I think most teams are well past this phenomena. Hockey guys are generally very smart with money- they figured it out, paid the right people but never shared publicly because it's their trade secret, and broadcast media will need new analysts to proliferate these figures.

When you have that, and you look at Schneider's 'underlying numbers' you see a polarizing figure. You see a guy who waited, who blocked shots, who took a -3 corsi and totally shut down a player. I'll share an example; I once changed the header in a spreadsheet from Blocked Shots to say "Counter Corsi", and a kid totally believed in the counter corsi, but still devalued defense. Which is rather limiting to say the least.

Schneider's offense I think is really going to be about using a smart array of shots, and using that to put his teammates in a position to succeed by banging home a rebound. Foxie's a good guy to learn from, same with DeAngelo and Trouba.
 
Mikos87 said:
Yeah and I think that's where common sense has to come into play. It's interesting, most analytics hires at companies are what I call open file and rank. That's what you see out there as your commonly reverberated insights. On the whole, I think most teams are well past this phenomena. Hockey guys are generally very smart with money- they figured it out, paid the right people but never shared publicly because it's their trade secret, and broadcast media will need new analysts to proliferate these figures.

When you have that, and you look at Schneider's 'underlying numbers' you see a polarizing figure. You see a guy who waited, who blocked shots, who took a -3 corsi and totally shut down a player. I'll share an example; I once changed the header in a spreadsheet from Blocked Shots to say "Counter Corsi", and a kid totally believed in the counter corsi, but still devalued defense. Which is rather limiting to say the least.

Schneider's offense I think is really going to be about using a smart array of shots, and using that to put his teammates in a position to succeed by banging home a rebound. Foxie's a good guy to learn from, same with DeAngelo and Trouba.
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If we're looking for offensive potential at the NHL level, I think guys like Schneider and Robertson will probably be in the same Staal/Girardi/Sauer range (had he lasted) - 5-10 goals, and 20-30 points.

In this case, that offense will hopefully come in support roles when paired with more offensively-leaning linemates.
 
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I really have to tell you that I am very high on Robertson, and have been for a bit. Ditto for Schneider.

They cover a lot of ground, take away a lot of opportunities, and they can get the puck where it needs to be (out of their zone, or to someone more offensively creative).

I think they're guys you win and guys you can pair with just about anyone.

The potential isn't flashy, I doubt they ever make an all-star team in their life because the offensive numbers won't be there. But I really think they both have the upside to be guys who play big important minutes for a long time.
 
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I think it says a lot about the quality of Schneider as a prospect that, even drafted a a year later, he’s being pencilled into Canada’s top 4, while Robertson - good in his own right - is on the cusp. I know they’re actually pretty close in age, but it’s still interesting.
 
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ColonialsHockey10 said:
I think it says a lot about the quality of Schneider as a prospect that, even drafted a a year later, he’s being pencilled into Canada’s top 4, while Robertson - good in his own right - is on the cusp. I know they’re actually pretty close in age, but it’s still interesting.
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Correct, despite the draft year difference, Robertson is only about 6 months older than Schneider.

Both should be turning pro at the conclusion of this season.
 
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Edge said:
Correct, despite the draft year difference, Robertson is only about 6 months older than Schneider.

Both should be turning pro at the conclusion of this season.
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Quick FYI but Robertson and Lafreniere are the only current contracts that are slide eligible at the moment.
 
One concern I've had about Robertson is that he seems to get beat in puck battles fairly frequently. For example, in the last 2 games:





It's something I've noticed when I've watched his shift by shifts too. To be fair, Rees and Pelletier are particularly hard working players for juniors, but those guys are everywhere in the NHL. I'm not sure a defense-first defenseman who loses puck battles often is a particularly valuable player. The length, skating, and ability to move the puck are all there, but I think this is something he needs to improve if he's going to be an NHL player.
 
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GeorgeKaplan said:


Saw people mention he didn’t come out for the third but it all said his situation was unknown
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See that's a bad corsi shift, but a great shift for defensive competence. Beats down a guy, move the puck up, beats another, takes it away. Forwards had no idea how to get the puck out, 3 turnovers at your own blueline.

On the assist, good smart shot on the assist. Leveraged the screen and sparked a scramble out front with the goalie not knowing where the puck is. That's a pro style goal 5v5, and that's the type of goal you can get from your bottom line guys.
 
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