GDT: 2020-21 season game 37 LA Kings vs Arizona Coyotes @7:00pm 4/5/21

[Bandit]

"Serenity comes from not wishing for a different past"

 

[Mats26]

There is nothing to fix. This is all part of the process. The only problem here is the impatience of the fans.

This team has set its course, and it is going to take years to get there. No sense in changing direction now, the pieces are already in place. It isn't going to happen overnight, the badly faded heroes in Quick, Brown and Carter will be long gone. This coaching staff will take them as far as they can before being replaced. There will be more bridge players added in place of stars, so we all better start getting cool with this now. Its going to take a while.

I agree it's a process. We were also told they had a 5 year plan. We are in year 3 now.
Some fans want to see progress in the process. While others are just waiting for QB and company to come in and lead us to the promise land.

I think we need to see some progress with what we have and add the higher end prospects to that.

 

[Docgonzo]

While yeah it’s disappointing, anybody complaining about Vilardi needs to just be quiet. He’s hit a rookie wall, just like every other rookie this season not named Kaprizov.

In the last month
Stuetzle 1g 5a
Norris 4g 1a
Smith 0g 8a (Ty’s still playing well)
Suter 4g 2a
Vilardi 0g 5a
Lafreniere 1g 2a
Hoglander 2g 3a
Robertson 5g 12a
Tolvanen 6g 8a
Kaprizov 8g 4a

So other than Kaprizov all the rookies who started fast have trailed off while the slow starters have started to rise.

 

[kingsfan28]

While yeah it’s disappointing, anybody complaining about Vilardi needs to just be quiet. He’s hit a rookie wall, just like every other rookie this season not named Kaprizov.

In the last month
Stuetzle 1g 5a
Norris 4g 1a
Smith 0g 8a (Ty’s still playing well)
Suter 4g 2a
Vilardi 0g 5a
Lafreniere 1g 2a
Hoglander 2g 3a
Robertson 5g 12a
Tolvanen 6g 8a
Kaprizov 8g 4a

So other than Kaprizov all the rookies who started fast have trailed off while the slow starters have started to rise.

The wall has hit almost all the rookies. Valardi is currently buried in rubbled at the moment.
I don't see Kaprizov as a true rookie like the others. He has something like 300 pro games played and probably hit the wall 4 years ago in the KHL.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I agree it's a process. We were also told they had a 5 year plan. We are in year 3 now.
Some fans want to see progress in the process. While others are just waiting for QB and company to come in and lead us to the promise land.

I think we need to see some progress with what we have and add the higher end prospects to that.

What progress haven't you seen yet?

Mike Andersson, top pairing
Tobias Bjornfoot, 4th-6th D depending on situation
Gabe Villardi - solidified spot on the roster
Matt Roy - Growing into a top notch #3

etc,

What I am missing with....we need to see progress?

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

No fighting. Goalies are tanks in skates. Not the sport I was drawn to.

Or the game I watched as a young boy and then later played! Remember Bobby Orr and a host of others that would try the end to end rushes and score! Don't see that much anymore...no room,no room to roam and skate...players are bigger and the Goaltenders with the Super Ultra huge equipment killing chances,killing real excitement and goals! As fans of the game the game needs to Evolve to permanent 4 on 4 and making the bluelines 5 cm instead of the stripe...any ideas?

 

[KingsCourt]

Why is everyone on Carter, he is what he is.
He should be playing 4th line, the sad part other guys have not unseated him for the spot.
Some say buyout..why? has one year left after this, restrict his mins and draw down the contract, we are not contenders.

The Carter/Gabe experiment should be over, hard to watch.
It's been a roll coaster of emotions with me with Gabe we he was awesome in the first part of the season (say 20-25 games), now he just looks beaten down, a few flashes here and there but overall he's not the same.
Based the list above seems like all rookies facing the challenges (except Kap who's actually 23 and been through a few seasons of grind already, ala breadman).

I'd like to see Gabe on the wing with Kop, as i think that will be he's spot (on wing).

as kopi goes, the kings go...has been this way for over a decade and don't see anything the current roster that that would change my opinion

 

[johnjm22]

"Serenity comes from not wishing for a different past"

"Not wanting something is as good as having it."

 

[BigKing]

This is increasingly on Blake's shoulders to fix. Team has plenty of cap space and trading chips...no reason why moves can't be made to improve the roster going into next season. Blake should be on the hot seat to ice a playoff roster for 2021-22.

I know you are an anti-tank/rebuild guy so this take isn't surprising but I agree with you whereas I didn't two-to-three years go. The part I agree with is that Blake needs to make some moves to improve the team heading into next season while also incorporating some more youth. I think the goal next season will be to make the playoffs but that they actually believe that they will unlike this season where it was mostly lip service.

Not so sure about the hot seat though. I really have no idea where AEG is at with this franchise except for the fact that they are happy Blake isn't spending a lot of real dollars on this team. The seat probably isn't too hot for him or T-Mac if they miss the playoffs but get real close; however, another season in the cellar would lead to some problems.

 

[Docgonzo]

I know the win streak sparked hope and now everybody is down but look at this roster.

Games played

The old vets
Kopitar 1110
Doughty 956
Brown 1218
Carter 1077
Quick 660

The “seasoned” vets
Iaffalo 263
AA 332
Kempe 293
Maatta 451

The less that 2 full seasons squad (164)
Vilardi 47
Moore 104
JAD 25
Walker 137
Wagner 156
Grundstrom 61
Anderson 41
Lizotte 97
Clague 17
Bjornfot 22
MacDermid 113
Andersson 79
Roy 125
Strand 17
Peterson 40

It sucks to see good/decent seasons from Kopitar, Doughty and Brown go to waste but this season with no fans is a complete development season for a majority of this roster.

 

[BigKing]

I also just wanted to say that I understand getting caught up in winning streaks but Jesus Christ if there is a fan base that should know better it is this one.

If the defending champ 2015 Kings can rip off a seven game winning streak and still miss the playoffs, why is anyone banking on a Bottom 5 team's seven game win streak from a season prior or this team's six game streak in the COVID season?

It's still all about individual progress and then T-Mac's system taking hold. We're just in a rough stretch at the moment. I'll be concerned if they don't snap out of it but I'm not freaking out yet.

Hoping Lemieux provides a spark and forces these guys to take their panties off. Best part of last night's game was MacDermid boarding that guy and then the Kings gaining momentum from the subsequent penalty kill for the rest of the 1st period.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Blake’s next trade to add a significant piece to the roster will be his first. With no track record, the book is open as far as what to expect.

If that type of move is made, what ends up going the other way will be telling. Sending roster players out who are productive, full time NHL minute eaters means being a playoff caliber team is 2-3 years in the future.

Sending out talented prospects means Blake is pushing for the playoffs next season. If this years team ends up a top 20 club, then I see this happening. Given their current trajectory, a bottom 10 finish is more likely, unless they immediately turn things around. If they go on a late season winning streak during garbage time, it will take some patience to make the right decisions.

 

[johnjm22]

Vilardi should be in the AHL. He missed too many games with injures and with this long Covid delay he needs his timeing and skating issues fixed before he can make an impact in the NHL. Let JAD take over that 2nd line role.

If Zegras can be sent back down to "learn" how to play Center then Vilardi should be sent down to learn as well.

When the Kings called up Vilardi last year, I didn't really understand why. After hardly playing any hockey, he finally got into a little bit of a groove, then the Kings immediately call him up and make him a full time NHLer.

I didn't complain about it because he ended up doing pretty well in his initial stint, but I still don't get it.

Wagner is another one for me. People complain about him, but he has some nice attributes and has shown some flashes. I don't understand why the Kings have him in the NHL, when he could work on refining his game and being a scorer in the AHL.

I disagree on JAD. He hasn't even shown that he can be an above average AHL player. Why should he be the Kings second line center?

 

[driller1]

It's starting to become repetitive. Same mistakes from the same players. Where is the accountability?

At what point do we move or sit Carter? and when do we move Anderson down to middle pair, he can't play 20 minutes a night, he ain't ready for that work load.

And Blake, how do you not add some bigger bodies to protect our teenagers and get a replacement for McDermind in the off season?

Anderson has actually been on of the few positive surprises. I think I read somewhere that amongst top pairs, DD and Mikey had given up the fewest 5 vs 5 goals against, which is pretty amazing when they get matched with #1 lines. He's the least of our problems.

Besides, if you move Mikey down, who do you bring up? Bjornfot and Maata are hurt, Roy is on Covid protocol. TMac isn't working with a whole lot here.

 

[Mats26]

What progress haven't you seen yet?

Mike Andersson, top pairing
Tobias Bjornfoot, 4th-6th D depending on situation
Gabe Villardi - solidified spot on the roster
Matt Roy - Growing into a top notch #3

etc,

What I am missing with....we need to see progress?

Watch Ottawa play, from the start of the season to now, then I will explain what progress is.
Even with Stuzle's 1 goal in 20 the group is growing together moving forward. This team is afloat becasue of 2-3 vets. If next year we see the same "progression" we are in for a long rebuild.

 

[lexlavender]

Vilardi, to me right now, is someone who needs tenacity on his wings in order to thrive. With Carter, who can't hold the puck to save his life, Vilardi is being expected to fetch and hold the puck until reinforcements enter the zone. However, he neither has the speed nor the experience to take on 2-3 guys like Kopitar can right now. If he had someone like an Iafallo on his wing who can fetch the puck and hold it long enough for everyone else to enter the zone, i feel that would help him a lot.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I think I read somewhere that amongst top pairs, DD and Mikey had given up the fewest 5 vs 5 goals against, which is pretty amazing when they get matched with #1 lines.

That was true before this catastrophic stretch of games... currently there are 25 defensive pairs with more than 400 minutes played together. Doughty and Anderson have played over 500.

Doughty and Anderson

tied for 5th best in total goals against at even strength (16) among those 25 pairs and tied for 5th per 60
the top pair has been on the ice for 12 for comparison

7th best in total shot attempts against at even strength, 6th in shot attempts per 60

19th in xGA at even strength (whatever that's worth)

Defensively the Kings top pair is doing it's job. One could (and many have) argued that they're not contributing enough offensively and that certainly skews the CF%, FF% and GF% numbers but personally I'm comfortable pinning a lot of that blame on the forward corps.


EDIT : The pairs that have been on the ice for fewer 5 v 5 goals are

Hamilton/Slavin - 12
Weegar/Ekblad - 14
Brodin/Dumba - 14
Fox/Lindgren - 15

 

[Docgonzo]

Watch Ottawa play, from the start of the season to now, then I will explain what progress is.
Even with Stuzle's 1 goal in 20 the group is growing together moving forward. This team is afloat becasue of 2-3 vets. If next year we see the same "progression" we are in for a long rebuild.

The Kings are showing progress, it’s just on in the D corps. Minus 3 possible players our promising prospects in defense are all playing on the team throughout the season.

We only have 2 promising forward rookies playing on the roster while the rest play together in the AHL.

Problem is you can’t introduce 20 rookies at once, and what’s harder to figure out, defense or offense?

And even Ottawa isn’t as young an inexperienced as this roster.

 

[Mats26]

The Kings are showing progress, it’s just on in the D corps. Minus 3 possible players our promising prospects in defense are all playing on the team throughout the season.

We only have 2 promising forward rookies playing on the roster while the rest play together in the AHL.

Problem is you can’t introduce 20 rookies at once, and what’s harder to figure out, defense or offense?

And even Ottawa isn’t as young an inexperienced as this roster.

I really don't care about age, for me is how are these prospects being developed. Right now look over the Sens stats and ice time etc...the prospects are leading the way. They were properly developed and are laying the foundation down for themselves as core players and to support the next wave. All had full years of AHL or Pro experiance. Kings are not there yet, might not be for a few more years.

 

[Reaper45]

While yeah it’s disappointing, anybody complaining about Vilardi needs to just be quiet. He’s hit a rookie wall, just like every other rookie this season not named Kaprizov.

In the last month
Stuetzle 1g 5a
Norris 4g 1a
Smith 0g 8a (Ty’s still playing well)
Suter 4g 2a
Vilardi 0g 5a
Lafreniere 1g 2a
Hoglander 2g 3a
Robertson 5g 12a
Tolvanen 6g 8a
Kaprizov 8g 4a

So other than Kaprizov all the rookies who started fast have trailed off while the slow starters have started to rise.

Not just that but how many games has he actually played the past few seasons?

 

[Docgonzo]

I really don't care about age, for me is how are these prospects being developed. Right now look over the Sens stats and ice time etc...the prospects are leading the way. They were properly developed and are laying the foundation down for themselves as core players and to support the next wave. All had full years of AHL or Pro experiance. Kings are not there yet, might not be for a few more years.

Other than Vilardi, who hasn’t had a year of AHL experience that you want?

JAD, Anderson, Bjornfot, Strand, Clague all had at least one year in the AHL.

 

[Schmooley]

I really don't care about age, for me is how are these prospects being developed. Right now look over the Sens stats and ice time etc...the prospects are leading the way. They were properly developed and are laying the foundation down for themselves as core players and to support the next wave. All had full years of AHL or Pro experiance. Kings are not there yet, might not be for a few more years.

From all the teams to be like you want to be like the senators?

 

[BigKing]

I really don't care about age, for me is how are these prospects being developed. Right now look over the Sens stats and ice time etc...the prospects are leading the way. They were properly developed and are laying the foundation down for themselves as core players and to support the next wave. All had full years of AHL or Pro experiance. Kings are not there yet, might not be for a few more years.

Ottawa made the conference finals in 2017 and then immediately went into the tank the following season. Pretty much all of the top dudes on the 2017 team were flipped for picks and prospects, some of which are part of this group of prospects that are "leading the way". Plus they drafted a stud leader in Tkachuk, a guy that brings the attitude that we are craving this team and its group of prospects to have. That being said, nothing so far for them says that they are on the path to greatness.

Blake came in and just ran it back in 2018 but eventually moved out all of the top guys that had value, outside of 11 nd 8 who are still key contributors and weren't up for new contracts etc...like several of the big-time Sens guys were when they were dealt. The Kings are thought to have a better prospect pool than Ottawa--or pretty similar--but don't believe in just sticking guys in the NHL right away unless they are undeniable. Most of the big-name prospects will have a year of AHL experience under their belts going into next season so how are the Kings so far off from Ottawa? Here are the draft picks from the past six drafts that received NHL ice time for LA this year:

2015 Draft: Roy/Wagner/Strand (undrafted)/Lizotte (undrafted)
2016 Draft: Clague/Grundstrom
2017 Draft: Andersson/Vilardi/JAD/Anderson
2018 Draft: Kupari
2019 Draft: Bjornfot/Kaliyev

Sure, none of these guys are "leading the way" as points leaders on this team but Vilardi is in 7th on a team that's top scorers are basically the guys on the #1 PP unit. Roy and Anderson are eating minutes on the blue line and JAD is at .50 PPG so far.

You get a gap with the 2018/19 as it looks like Blake and Co. like to see that one year of pro that you are talking about. Kupari's AHL time was cut short so he's getting more time to be a top dude in Ontario. Bjornfot got pro time overseas like Kupari but got a full AHL season last year and here he is. Turcotte is getting his time and Byfield/Kaliyev shouldn't even be getting AHL minutes this season but fortunately are while I expect to see both Byfield and Turcotte to dip their toes in some NHL action at this point. I'm not even discussing Fagemo, Thomas, Madden...

I just don't get the Ottawa envy. Kings have had 15 different guys from age 19-24 play a game this year while Ottawa has had 12. It just seem like misplaced "I just want to see all of the prospects play right now" v. the Kings actually being possibly a "few years" behind the current Ottawa Senators.

 

[Mats26]

From all the teams to be like you want to be like the senators?

Completly missed the point ..lol

 

[Mats26]

Other than Vilardi, who hasn’t had a year of AHL experience that you want?

JAD, Anderson, Bjornfot, Strand, Clague all had at least one year in the AHL.

Great they got some experiance.
Most d men take 4-5 years to make an impact. Voynov had 4 years in the minors. Roy had 2 full seasons + a few games in year 1. Unless you are elite 18 year old, they can use 2+ years of Pro development hockey.

My point is I hope the development staff ain't rushing them becasue we got too many prospects comming in at the same time.