GDT: 2020-21 season game 24 LA Kings vs Anaheim Ducks @7:00pm 3/8/21

[kilowatt]

I respect you greatly, it's why I am responding.

Can you tell me anything I said that wasn't a fact?

Thanks.

Honestly my post was just a snarky retort, but I respect you too, so I'll respond honestly. Your arguments with regards to Turcotte's production in college are that he didn't do as much as other players like Toews, when in fact he did (in his freshman season).

Obviously that wasn't the broad point of the argument though, which is that a second year of college hockey could have helped his development more than going to the AHL, and I actually agree there. But saying that now, after seeing how well UW is doing, is easy compared to saying it at the end of the college season last year when the program looked like a trainwreck. I wonder how much of that decision was left up to LA though – we don't really know what happened or why Turcotte wanted to leave.

My big thing this year with regards to scouting our prospects is just that this past year has been so crazy that I'm not going to get too high or too low on anybody. The Reign have been terrible on the stat sheet, but most games, they look good to great on a per-shift basis, and then there's a huge, obvious mistake leading to a goal. It's a really young team, so I'm just trying to focus on individual improvements game to game.

I think we're finally reaching a point with the big club where prospects can jump in and be productive in McLellan's system, but that certainly hasn't happened yet in Ontario. Remember how bad it was when Desjardins and McLellan first came in? Everyone looked like Kovalchuk, and not in a good way. I think we're seeing those issues with the Reign, and in turn, with individual players.

With all that said, I think Turcotte is going to be fine. I think a lot of players might not look great this year but will bounce back next year with a normal schedule of play.

And on a personal level, my "facts" comment is just a go-to internet response, and I didn't mean to direct it your way. That was uncalled for and I'm sorry.

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

Missed the 2nd and 3rd periods! Saw the highlights and loved that Adrian Kempe got the hatty! And the dangle(dekes thru 4 players from Athanasiou was amazing)!

 

[Herby]

Honestly my post was just a snarky retort, but I respect you too, so I'll respond honestly. Your arguments with regards to Turcotte's production in college are that he didn't do as much as other players like Toews, when in fact he did (in his freshman season).

Obviously that wasn't the broad point of the argument though, which is that a second year of college hockey could have helped his development more than going to the AHL, and I actually agree there. But saying that now, after seeing how well UW is doing, is easy compared to saying it at the end of the college season last year when the program looked like a trainwreck. I wonder how much of that decision was left up to LA though – we don't really know what happened or why Turcotte wanted to leave.

My big thing this year with regards to scouting our prospects is just that this past year has been so crazy that I'm not going to get too high or too low on anybody. The Reign have been terrible on the stat sheet, but most games, they look good to great on a per-shift basis, and then there's a huge, obvious mistake leading to a goal. It's a really young team, so I'm just trying to focus on individual improvements game to game.

I think we're finally reaching a point with the big club where prospects can jump in and be productive in McLellan's system, but that certainly hasn't happened yet in Ontario. Remember how bad it was when Desjardins and McLellan first came in? Everyone looked like Kovalchuk, and not in a good way. I think we're seeing those issues with the Reign, and in turn, with individual players.

With all that said, I think Turcotte is going to be fine. I think a lot of players might not look great this year but will bounce back next year with a normal schedule of play.

And on a personal level, my "facts" comment is just a go-to internet response, and I didn't mean to direct it your way. That was uncalled for and I'm sorry.

Thank you for reply, first off no need to apologize. But thank you for explaining yourself.

I have always prided myself on posting factual information and honest evaluations on this board. Sometimes that is positive stuff about players, and many times it isn't. I know for many people they don't like to go negative in any situation, these are the people who would tag me in posts in 2014-2015 when Mike Richards would actually do something on the ice, because in there estimation I was being a "hater" and "not a true fan" by saying he was one of the worst players in the NHL for those final 2 years. I think in that case my evaluation turned out to be true, but there have been many cases it hasn't (Patrick O'Sullivan, Bernier vs. Quick). And I do understand and accept the "always sunny fans", we have many here, I deal with many on various UM boards and forums, sports to some is an escape from a largely negative world and they don't want negativity in these discussions, I accept that but also don't think the "hater" and "not a true fan" stuff is neccessary.

I wanted to see a future star in Alex Turcotte last season, I really did. He was going to be playing very close to me and he came to UW with excellent credentials for the NTDP. Since Hughes went pro he would have probably been considered the #1 recruit in college hockey, if there were services who really focused on that like they do football in hoops. I hyped the hell out of him to my UW friends because I truly expected him to come in and have a dominant freshman year and carry it over to maybe even being with the Kings this season if he dominated that level like some recent freshman have. Unfortunately in my viewings I just did not see a player that warranted the pick the Kings used on him, again it doesn't mean I think he is a "bust" or is "terrible" it also doesn't mean I am a "hater" it just means that he didn't really show through to me the way you would expect from a player taken that high and that the Kings should probably be targeting someone else as a future 1C, which they correctly did, and was one of the reasons I was very much in the QB over TS camp. That is my evaluation of the player, I've seen plenty of stars come through that level of hockey and I see complimentary or secondary player more than I see star or impact player. Like BK already said, I hope my evaluation is wrong and Turcotte is the next Toews, but I'm not going to evaluate him with Kings colored glasses on, just goes against how I view sports. I stand my my evaluation and will be ready to hear it in the years to come if I am wrong.

And just to add, someone else mentioned this in a post, I apologize for a comment I made directed at someone else who had replied to my post. I didn't like the tone that was directed at me, or the insinuation that I was lying about seeing Wisconsin play multiple times last season. As much as I hated that post and thought it was ridiculous I should not have replied the way that I did and the person who called me (and some others) out was correct in their statement.

Cheers
Go Kings

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Thank you for reply, first off no need to apologize. But thank you for explaining yourself.

I have always prided myself on posting factual information and honest evaluations on this board. Sometimes that is positive stuff about players, and many times it isn't. I know for many people they don't like to go negative in any situation, these are the people who would tag me in posts in 2014-2015 when Mike Richards would actually do something on the ice, because in there estimation I was being a "hater" and "not a true fan" by saying he was one of the worst players in the NHL for those final 2 years. I think in that case my evaluation turned out to be true, but there have been many cases it hasn't (Patrick O'Sullivan, Bernier vs. Quick). And I do understand and accept the "always sunny fans", we have many here, I deal with many on various UM boards and forums, sports to some is an escape from a largely negative world and they don't want negativity in these discussions, I accept that but also don't think the "hater" and "not a true fan" stuff is neccessary.

I wanted to see a future star in Alex Turcotte last season, I really did. He was going to be playing very close to me and he came to UW with excellent credentials for the NTDP. Since Hughes went pro he would have probably been considered the #1 recruit in college hockey, if there were services who really focused on that like they do football in hoops. I hyped the hell out of him to my UW friends because I truly expected him to come in and have a dominant freshman year and carry it over to maybe even being with the Kings this season if he dominated that level like some recent freshman have. Unfortunately in my viewings I just did not see a player that warranted the pick the Kings used on him, again it doesn't mean I think he is a "bust" or is "terrible" it also doesn't mean I am a "hater" it just means that he didn't really show through to me the way you would expect from a player taken that high and that the Kings should probably be targeting someone else as a future 1C, which they correctly did, and was one of the reasons I was very much in the QB over TS camp. That is my evaluation of the player, I've seen plenty of stars come through that level of hockey and I see complimentary or secondary player more than I see star or impact player. Like BK already said, I hope my evaluation is wrong and Turcotte is the next Toews, but I'm not going to evaluate him with Kings colored glasses on, just goes against how I view sports. I stand my my evaluation and will be ready to hear it in the years to come if I am wrong.

And just to add, someone else mentioned this in a post, I apologize for a comment I made directed at someone else who had replied to my post. I didn't like the tone that was directed at me, or the insinuation that I was lying about seeing Wisconsin play multiple times last season. As much as I hated that post and thought it was ridiculous I should not have replied the way that I did and the person who called me (and some others) out was correct in their statement.

Cheers
Go Kings

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Thank you for reply, first off no need to apologize. But thank you for explaining yourself.

I have always prided myself on posting factual information and honest evaluations on this board. Sometimes that is positive stuff about players, and many times it isn't. I know for many people they don't like to go negative in any situation, these are the people who would tag me in posts in 2014-2015 when Mike Richards would actually do something on the ice, because in there estimation I was being a "hater" and "not a true fan" by saying he was one of the worst players in the NHL for those final 2 years. I think in that case my evaluation turned out to be true, but there have been many cases it hasn't (Patrick O'Sullivan, Bernier vs. Quick). And I do understand and accept the "always sunny fans", we have many here, I deal with many on various UM boards and forums, sports to some is an escape from a largely negative world and they don't want negativity in these discussions, I accept that but also don't think the "hater" and "not a true fan" stuff is neccessary.

I wanted to see a future star in Alex Turcotte last season, I really did. He was going to be playing very close to me and he came to UW with excellent credentials for the NTDP. Since Hughes went pro he would have probably been considered the #1 recruit in college hockey, if there were services who really focused on that like they do football in hoops. I hyped the hell out of him to my UW friends because I truly expected him to come in and have a dominant freshman year and carry it over to maybe even being with the Kings this season if he dominated that level like some recent freshman have. Unfortunately in my viewings I just did not see a player that warranted the pick the Kings used on him, again it doesn't mean I think he is a "bust" or is "terrible" it also doesn't mean I am a "hater" it just means that he didn't really show through to me the way you would expect from a player taken that high and that the Kings should probably be targeting someone else as a future 1C, which they correctly did, and was one of the reasons I was very much in the QB over TS camp. That is my evaluation of the player, I've seen plenty of stars come through that level of hockey and I see complimentary or secondary player more than I see star or impact player. Like BK already said, I hope my evaluation is wrong and Turcotte is the next Toews, but I'm not going to evaluate him with Kings colored glasses on, just goes against how I view sports. I stand my my evaluation and will be ready to hear it in the years to come if I am wrong.

And just to add, someone else mentioned this in a post, I apologize for a comment I made directed at someone else who had replied to my post. I didn't like the tone that was directed at me, or the insinuation that I was lying about seeing Wisconsin play multiple times last season. As much as I hated that post and thought it was ridiculous I should not have replied the way that I did and the person who called me (and some others) out was correct in their statement.

Cheers
Go Kings

Freaking negative nancy here......kid...I kid....

But in all honesty, I don't know if last year was a proper barometer of a player, any player's talent etc, such a crazy year that affects everyone differently...I've alway thought of Turcotte as the engine that could, never gonna blow you away....but just keeps chugging along doing the job, not flashy, but steady.....I'm ok with that being a #5 OA pick etc.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I have no more patience reading the walls of text with both sides spinning wheels with each other.

But did Turcotte not attend the WJC just 3 months ago, acquit himself wonderfully and help USA win the gold? Am I the only one who watched that? Did that count for anything? And hasn’t he been banged up basically ever since, while simultaneously trying to adjust to the pro game? What the hell are we even talking about?

 

[Herby]

I have no more patience reading the walls of text with both sides spinning wheels with each other.

But did Turcotte not attend the WJC just 3 months ago, acquit himself wonderfully and help USA win the gold? Am I the only one who watched that? Did that count for anything? And hasn’t he been banged up basically ever since, while simultaneously trying to adjust to the pro game? What the hell are we even talking about?

A Kings prospect on a Kings message board?

A lot of stuff gets discussed here, I think if people don't want to discuss it they don't have to and they can move onto a discussion they are more interested in, but the discussions growing organically is a good thing, IMO. As long as it stays on topic ofcourse, which this one clearly is.

 

[Bandit]

I'm not sure pages of complaining about our prospects in a GDT is quite "on topic", but I know this is:

I still can't believe we lost to those f***ing bozos.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

A Kings prospect on a Kings message board?

A lot of stuff gets discussed here, I think if people don't want to discuss it they don't have to and they can move onto a discussion they are more interested in, but the discussions growing organically is a good thing, IMO. As long as it stays on topic ofcourse, which this one clearly is.

But is it? In a game thread vs Anaheim, we are discussing the peculiarity scouting habits of one Herby.......about the greatest prospect ever to don a Turcotte named Jersey...in Alex.....

Are we really staying "on topic" ?

Yes, I am that freaking bored right now

 

[Herby]

But is it? In a game thread vs Anaheim, we are discussing the peculiarity scouting habits of one Herby.......about the greatest prospect ever to don a Turcotte named Jersey...in Alex.....

Are we really staying "on topic" ?

Yes, I am that freaking bored right now

Sometimes different Kings stuff is discussed in various different threads, this discussion was because of Zegras assisting on the GWG.

I've seen GDT's get way more off the rails than this.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I have no more patience reading the walls of text with both sides spinning wheels with each other.

But did Turcotte not attend the WJC just 3 months ago, acquit himself wonderfully and help USA win the gold? Am I the only one who watched that? Did that count for anything? And hasn’t he been banged up basically ever since, while simultaneously trying to adjust to the pro game? What the hell are we even talking about?

Yup, and he was awesome -- he will be a great player for us at some point. Reminded me a lot of Deadmarsh.

 

[BigKing]

Well, at least a Kings/Ducks game can still elicit passion out of the fans since there hasn't been any one the ice between the two teams in years.

 

[Mats26]

I don't think it was character or leadership as to why they went with Turcotte over Zegras or QB over Stutzle. I think they had those players as the best ones available. The Zegras one I think may haunt LA, but Turcotte should still be a really good NHL'er. That draft still pisses me off as I wanted Dach. Stupid Chicago.

Too early to compare long term QB vs Stutzle.

I think it was said multiple times from the Kings brass, I heard Nelson Emerson even say that Turcotte plays the "right way" over the other USHL draftees. There is no secret that Byram was their pick at 5 and with Dach also gone, Turcotte was their pick. Is he BPA at 5?, it is yet to be seen. I just don't get why the Habs had Zegras as 3rd best in that draft and we probably bumped him down for not playing the "right way" Still like Turcotte, but at 5 he needs to become an impact player. Plenty of time for that.

 

[Herby]

I think it was said multiple times from the Kings brass, I heard Nelson Emerson even say that Turcotte plays the "right way" over the other USHL draftees. There is no secret that Byram was their pick at 5 and with Dach also gone, Turcotte was their pick. Is he BPA at 5?, it is yet to be seen. I just don't get why the Habs had Zegras as 3rd best in that draft and we probably bumped him down for not playing the "right way" Still like Turcotte, but at 5 he needs to become an impact player. Plenty of time for that.

People always talk about the need for gritty and character players to win championships, and like conveniently forget that you also need elite skilled players. Just insanity to dismiss Zegras and the style he plays when you see guys like Kucherov and Kane being huge pieces of great teams. Not saying he is going to be as good as either one, but grit and character gets insanely overrated unless it's combined with offensive production. If Turcotte compliments his grit and character with offensive production he will warrant that pick, if he doesn't he wont. Before he fell off the face of the Earth in all facets Richards was a dynamic offensive player in the NHL, but even with his grit if he was going to be a 45-50 point guy he wouldn't have made best on best teams. Tougher comparison because Richards didn't just lose his offense he lost everything but if Richards had maintained his defensive game and physicality and only the offense collapsed he still wouldn't have warranted the contract he had and the Kings probably would have had to move on.

The hockey media, especially north of the border love to fawn over Toews, but there are zero banners hanging in the rafters in Chicago without Patrick Kane, that is probably true about Toews too, but you never hear people say that Kane is a winner,. I actually think Kane was the most impactful player in their dynasty.

Also, players like Kane age better than players like Toews, look at what Kane has done the last few years, he's still one of the best players in the world almost 14 years after being taken #1 overall.

And Zegras is in the NHL for the same reason Bjornfot is, regardless of contract situation. Both teams feel that the players will develop better with the challenge of playing in the NHL and practicing against NHL'ers than going back to the minors and dominating against lesser competition, and I agree. I am happy Toby is with the Kings and I'm sure Ducks fans feel the same way about Zegras. Plus, even if Zegras has more games like last night (and he was God awful) the Ducks can just send him back down, I think the ELC thing gets way overblown.

 

[Schmooley]

And Zegras is in the NHL for the same reason Bjornfot is, regardless of contract situation. Both teams feel that the players will develop better with the challenge of playing in the NHL and practicing against NHL'ers than going back to the minors and dominating against lesser competition, and I agree. I am happy Toby is with the Kings and I'm sure Ducks fans feel the same way about Zegras. Plus, even if Zegras has more games like last night (and he was God awful) the Ducks can just send him back down, I think the ELC thing gets way overblown.

Zegras is in the NHL cause the Ducks need help scoring. Bjornfot is in the NHL cause the Kings need help on defense. Zegras looked good in that first game vs the Kings and not good the rest of the games hes played. I watched all of them. The Kings could just as easily bring Turcotte up and play him with the Kings best players and get similar results.

 

[Herby]

Zegras is in the NHL cause the Ducks need help scoring. Bjornfot is in the NHL cause the Kings need help on defense. Zegras looked good in that first game vs the Kings and not good the rest of the games hes played. I watched all of them. The Kings could just as easily bring Turcotte up and play him with the Kings best players and get similar results.

I think TZ's domination at the AHL level had more to do with his being called up than anything, same reason why Kupari was called up to the Kings. You should reward the players who are playing the best, especially 1st round picks. I think Fagemo should be the next one to get a call-up.