2020/21 Roster Thread
- Thread starter CanadianFlyer88
- Start date
- Status
Curious how to get Ghost to Arizona. Could be Keith Yandle-ey. They love Yandle there. Contact isn't bad. They probably want picks in the upcoming draft as well, (or the next one, as this one is not superb)-- what does Ghost + get us?
I think the expansion draft kind of bones trading for someone you may lose.
I think the expansion draft kind of bones trading for someone you may lose.
Prongo
Beer
Coyotes don’t have draft picks so it would have to be a hockey deal I would think if we go that route.
DancingPanther
Foundational Titan
- Jun 19, 2018
- 34,235
- 72,496
New thread, same shit
New season, same shit
New season, same shit
landsbergfan
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 6,813
- 24,262
really gave into peer pressure and made a new thread
landsbergfan
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2018
- 6,813
- 24,262
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
More pain and suffering with just a little tasty dash of fascism tossed in for flavor.
mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
Adtar02
@NateThompson44 is a bum
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 51,334
- 22,364
Everyone assumes Ghost will be traded, but we'll see.
I don't think Fletcher will make a lot of moves this offseason, next summer is when things get interesting.
Fletcher doesn't have to move Ghost, for all we know AV wants to see how he looks at 100% and see if he gets his mojo back.
I don't think Fletcher will make a lot of moves this offseason, next summer is when things get interesting.
Fletcher doesn't have to move Ghost, for all we know AV wants to see how he looks at 100% and see if he gets his mojo back.
BackToTheBrierePatch
Eff Cancer
everything is bad and a dumpster fire. Might as well fold the franchise. Oh you said what fun.
Never mind then
mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
AV would first have to correctly identify that Ghost is a far superior player to at least 3 other defensemen he played over him last season / in the playoffs. And Ghost's mojo was fine, especially in the playoffs. He was just the weird ass random scapegoat, despite literally being one of the best players on the ice when he played.
rinaldo
Ignored Mmber
- Apr 7, 2019
- 1,195
- 361
Prongo
Beer
JVR hasn’t gotten much publicity for being #2 on the trade bait list in an organization that Frankie S has connections to. Either he is not generating interest or Fletcher is running a tight ship. He’s the one I’m most interested to see what happens if/when he’s dealt.
tymed
Registered User
My gut perspective is that the whole Provorov pp1 QB blunder is likely moreso due to some variation of contract stipulation giving him the reigns on that position for the season atleast this past season. The kid has supreme confidence in himself and I have to imagine that he was fighting for opportunity to prove himself in negotiating a long term contract.
Regarding Provo vs Sanheim/Myers for PP1 opportunity, it's a clear picture to look at as future cap/contract management. This makes sense and backs up a key part of the narrative.
The conversation gets a little more dicey when you get to the Provorov vs Ghost aspect of this thought process. There's no long term cap ramifications to having Ghost run the pp1, in fact it's the opposite, which leads me back to the Provorov pp1 opportunity contract stipulation scenario. Throw in the fact that Ghost has been facing all kinds of injury complications against playing time in general that were well hidden by the organization. Most honest fans could see he was fighting something lower body that was lending to symptoms around his mobility in contrast to his skating history. Throw in the fact that although he was contributing to puck movement in the playoffs, he continued to shoot himself in the foot when he's making plays like stepping out front of his own net with the puck under pressure. While it may be successful, there's literally no coach in the world who's gonna tolerate that, starting at age 12. He also really screwed himself in 18/19 by firing endless pp1 shots into shin pads (I don't have any stats on this but it was game in/game out).
To be clear, I remain 100% about having Ghost run the pp1. I think Provorov's contract opportunity details combined with and stemming from some of Ghost's factors (diminishing shot effectiveness on pp1 in 18/19, obvious lingering injuries/mobility stepdown, and self inflicted on-ice doghouse decision making) are the primary reason for what we saw play out this season in this regard.
This is just my thinking on the subject. To me, it's a lot more logical than believing that anyone is blind enough to think Provorov is an acceptable pp1 option--I'd honestly be more interested in seeing what Hagg can do there than Provy--He's just that sad to watch QB.
This thought process also leads to a healthier state of mental well-being while we endure watching this play out. I think the longest we'll have to watch this crap go on is until Sanheim inks long term. I think we start seeing this Provorov experiment phase out during the upcoming season.
Optimistic but holds water.
Regarding Provo vs Sanheim/Myers for PP1 opportunity, it's a clear picture to look at as future cap/contract management. This makes sense and backs up a key part of the narrative.
The conversation gets a little more dicey when you get to the Provorov vs Ghost aspect of this thought process. There's no long term cap ramifications to having Ghost run the pp1, in fact it's the opposite, which leads me back to the Provorov pp1 opportunity contract stipulation scenario. Throw in the fact that Ghost has been facing all kinds of injury complications against playing time in general that were well hidden by the organization. Most honest fans could see he was fighting something lower body that was lending to symptoms around his mobility in contrast to his skating history. Throw in the fact that although he was contributing to puck movement in the playoffs, he continued to shoot himself in the foot when he's making plays like stepping out front of his own net with the puck under pressure. While it may be successful, there's literally no coach in the world who's gonna tolerate that, starting at age 12. He also really screwed himself in 18/19 by firing endless pp1 shots into shin pads (I don't have any stats on this but it was game in/game out).
To be clear, I remain 100% about having Ghost run the pp1. I think Provorov's contract opportunity details combined with and stemming from some of Ghost's factors (diminishing shot effectiveness on pp1 in 18/19, obvious lingering injuries/mobility stepdown, and self inflicted on-ice doghouse decision making) are the primary reason for what we saw play out this season in this regard.
This is just my thinking on the subject. To me, it's a lot more logical than believing that anyone is blind enough to think Provorov is an acceptable pp1 option--I'd honestly be more interested in seeing what Hagg can do there than Provy--He's just that sad to watch QB.
This thought process also leads to a healthier state of mental well-being while we endure watching this play out. I think the longest we'll have to watch this crap go on is until Sanheim inks long term. I think we start seeing this Provorov experiment phase out during the upcoming season.
Optimistic but holds water.
Starat327
Top .01% OnlyHands
If a GM gave Provorov a positional guarantee as part of his contract, he needs to be fired on the spot.
Just another in a long list for our big Harvard boy, if that were the case (and I doubt it was).
Just another in a long list for our big Harvard boy, if that were the case (and I doubt it was).
tymed
Registered User
I agree. My post was in no way an attempt to take blame off management or coaching, just taking a different angle at this scenario. Regarding sanheim/myers future cap control, it makes sense, so then it comes more specifically down to the ghost factors. It was also a curious thing to see the coaches toss Ghost on the sidewall while leaving Provy up high (if memory serves correct)
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 51,334
- 22,364
Provorov had a higher xGF (7.20/60) on the PP in these playoffs than Ghost (6.22/60) in his two healthy PO series combined.
And those two team had an excellent PP going into the playoffs, with Ghost at QB.
It's not that Provorov was so great (but much better than the regular season), it's that Ghost has been MIA in playoff action, both 5x5 and on the PP. Maybe it's a SSS fluke, maybe Ghost struggles with tighter windows and more physical play.
And those two team had an excellent PP going into the playoffs, with Ghost at QB.
It's not that Provorov was so great (but much better than the regular season), it's that Ghost has been MIA in playoff action, both 5x5 and on the PP. Maybe it's a SSS fluke, maybe Ghost struggles with tighter windows and more physical play.
Prongo
Beer
Lebrun saying teams trying to acquire Pietrangelo right want to do so to get that 8th year but I thought that’s actually not true/possible. Don’t you need to be on the playoff reserve list or something to be able to get that 8th year? Or am I thinking of something else?
Starat327
Top .01% OnlyHands
That was correct, though they could, in theory, alter the rules because of covid. I doubt they would but who knows.
This has to be the absolute worst year to try recoup value in a trade of JVR or Ghost or both . They both have value in a trade but the return will be at it's lowest with this flat cap . With this all being said i just prefer keeping both if we can .
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Just 2-3 years away, just like we will be for the next 15 years.
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
PP play in the 2019-2020 playoffs
Individual expected goals per 60:
Ghost: 1.89
Provorov: 0.78
And Ghost was with the 2nd unit the whole time, not the 1st like Provorov. The numbers in the regular season are heavily in Ghosts favor too. 0.92 vs 0.57.
As for comparing Provorovs play this year on the PP to Ghost in previous playoffs:
Ghost in 2017-2018: 0.92
Ghost in 2015-2016: 0.82 (when he was injured)
So Ghost was still indisputably better, unless you cherrypick stats that lack context and aren't player-specific.
In the playoff sample size Ghost played in, you could very easily argue he was our best D in the playoffs. In fact, it'd be easier to argue he was our best than he was anything other than our best. Both the eye test and the stats support that. He played fantastic and had his "mojo" for sure. But like you said, he got scapegoated for no reason.
As for the rest of the season, he played well but was sabotaged completely. No chance to score on the PP thanks to Therrien, stuck with Hagg and the bottom six, low icetime, and so on. Expecting him to produce like normal when used like that shows a misunderstanding of the sport. Not to mention he had awful luck too, as can be seen by his on-ice shooting % and therefore lack of assists.
Individual expected goals per 60:
Ghost: 1.89
Provorov: 0.78
And Ghost was with the 2nd unit the whole time, not the 1st like Provorov. The numbers in the regular season are heavily in Ghosts favor too. 0.92 vs 0.57.
As for comparing Provorovs play this year on the PP to Ghost in previous playoffs:
Ghost in 2017-2018: 0.92
Ghost in 2015-2016: 0.82 (when he was injured)
So Ghost was still indisputably better, unless you cherrypick stats that lack context and aren't player-specific.
In the playoff sample size Ghost played in, you could very easily argue he was our best D in the playoffs. In fact, it'd be easier to argue he was our best than he was anything other than our best. Both the eye test and the stats support that. He played fantastic and had his "mojo" for sure. But like you said, he got scapegoated for no reason.
As for the rest of the season, he played well but was sabotaged completely. No chance to score on the PP thanks to Therrien, stuck with Hagg and the bottom six, low icetime, and so on. Expecting him to produce like normal when used like that shows a misunderstanding of the sport. Not to mention he had awful luck too, as can be seen by his on-ice shooting % and therefore lack of assists.
Tripod
I hate this team
Maybe a good time for a reminder....THIS game got Ghost benched for the rest of the playoffs in favor of Hagg:
CF%: 64.29%-best D on the team
CF%rel: 11.34%-best D on the team
Not on the ice for any goals against
Why was he benched again? Hagg must have REALLY impressed the next game. Let's look:
CF%: 26.92%-worst D on the team
CF%rel" -21.31%-worst D on the team
High Danger%: 16.67%-worst D on the team
Impressive!
CF%: 64.29%-best D on the team
CF%rel: 11.34%-best D on the team
Not on the ice for any goals against
Why was he benched again? Hagg must have REALLY impressed the next game. Let's look:
CF%: 26.92%-worst D on the team
CF%rel" -21.31%-worst D on the team
High Danger%: 16.67%-worst D on the team
Impressive!
- Status
